The Dark Knight Rises TDKR SPOILERS (read at your own risk) - Part 2

[eal2727]

Not a victim...

Spoiler

The way it's been explained is that in the second fight, he pummels Bane, breaks his mask and has him whimpering on the ground. It's only a surprise stabbing by Talia that gives Bane the upper hand back. It seems like part of the theme of the movie is that Batman inspires good, especially with Selina because she knows him personally and is transformed from morally ambiguous to good. So in that sense, he's defeated Bane twice, because he's given hope back to people who Bane wanted to render hopeless. But the main thing is that he physically beats him the second time.

 

[jacobed]

Ok, a question and a comment...

Question:

Spoiler

How is Bruce Wayne's death explained? What is the official story to what happened to him?

Comment, and I definitely haven't seen anyone talk about this, and it's a biggie to me...

Spoiler

So Batman himself never defeats Bane? Bane puts him our of commission in the first fight, and Selina saves his butt in the second one? I'm going to reserve judgment until I see it, but that renders our hero somewhat impotent, does it not? I mean, he NEVER gets the job done when it comes to Bane. I know Nolan is above cheesy story telling, but for the hero to NOT redeem himself against an enemy that defeated him...I don't know what to think about that...

Spoiler

ill answer your second one. Batman clearly beats Bane but that is when Tate reveals herself and betrays Batman

 

[Ferd]

Will Bane break Batman's back like in the comics?

What we have heard is

Spoiler

the scene is very much like Knightfall, where Bane literally lifts Batman up and cracks him over his knee (after a long fight, with Bane allowing Batman to get the upper hand and then throwing him around and beating him some more.) However, his back is not actually broken, but more like his vertebrae are seriously bulging/out of whack and he cannot walk until his back is reset and he recuperates, which he does in prison. Also after the back incident, Bane wails on Bruce's face a solid 4-5 times then removes the mask.

 

[LorenzoVon]

I have seen 3 clips of bane and batman clash!
One in daylight during the riot!
Two when bane is standing over an unmasked batman "your punishment must be more severe"
And three when they fight in the sewers


In which one of these fights does the back break and which one does bane die in?

 

[herecomes]

Ok, a question and a comment...

Question:

Spoiler

How is Bruce Wayne's death explained? What is the official story to what happened to him?

Spoiler

I don't remember exactly what was said about this particular question, but I believe given the confusion and the martial law imposed by Bane and all the rich people being thrown to the streets, most people (Gotham population) believe Bruce was killed in the process.

So the official story might be that there is no official story??

 

[herecomes]

I have seen 3 clips of bane and batman clash!
One in daylight during the riot!
Two when bane is standing over an unmasked batman "your punishment must be more severe"
And three when they fight in the sewers


In which one of these fights does the back break and which one does bane die in?

Spoiler

Sewers, this was their first encounter and Batman clearly wasn't ready to face a foe like Bane.

 

[Ferd]

I have seen 3 clips of bane and batman clash!
One in daylight during the riot!
Two when bane is standing over an unmasked batman "your punishment must be more severe"
And three when they fight in the sewers


In which one of these fights does the back break and which one does bane die in?

The one

Spoiler

in the sewer, their first fight. The bit where he mentions his punishment is after he injurs his back. Then he puts him into prison where he is to suffer and watch 'powerlessly' as Gotham is destroyed.

 

[Ferd]

Spoiler

I don't remember exactly what was said about this particular question, but I believe given the confusion and the martial law imposed by Bane and all the rich people being thrown to the streets, most people (Gotham population) believe Bruce was killed in the process.

So the official story might be that there is no official story??

From what was said by Name-that-movie, I believe

Spoiler

it's a little vague/unclear what exactly people think happen to Bruce. I think he said since the city is in such mass chaos, everyone is worried about themselves so no one questions the fact that he just got killed along the way. I think it's a detail that isn't elaborated on.

 

[herecomes]

From what was said by Name-that-movie, I believe

Spoiler

it's a little vague/unclear what exactly people think happen to Bruce. I think he said since the city is in such mass chaos, everyone is worried about themselves so no one questions the fact that he just got killed along the way. I think it's a detail that isn't elaborated on.

Yup, I got that impression too, but I'm pretty sure someone said this specifically and it does play out the way you mention, with Gotham

Spoiler

in chaos no one really starts to question the whereabouts of Bruce Wayne given the fact that they themselves are facing mortal danger, are worrying about their loved ones, and with so many already dead the logical assumption is that Bruce Wayne was among those.

 

[iamfourfivesix]

The Shape said we never see Bane's face, but I've read two reviews so far that say we do see him unmasked at some point during the film

 

[herecomes]

The Shape said we never see Bane's face, but I've read two reviews so far that say we do see him unmasked at some point during the film

Spoiler

Maybe when Batman kicks the living **** out of him? He apparently kicks or punches the mask and this weakens Bane, maybe at some point the mask comes off or whatever, right before Talia stabs Batman, and saves Bane

 

[Ferd]

The Shape said we never see Bane's face, but I've read two reviews so far that say we do see him unmasked at some point during the film

Actually,

Spoiler

You never see present day Bane unmasked, you do see a younger Bane in prison when young Talia is there with him and they say goodbye. He lowers his scarf a brief moment and says his goodbye, before being dragged away by some other prisoners. Pretty sure Name-that-movie mentioned that a few pages back if you want to double check.

 

[herecomes]

Actually,

Spoiler

You never see present day Bane unmasked, you do see a younger Bane in prison when young Talia is there with him and they say goodbye. He lowers his scarf a brief moment and says his goodbye, before being dragged away by some other prisoners. Pretty sure name mentioned that a few pages back if you want to double check.

This is probably what the reviewer was referencing.

 

[LorenzoVon]

The one

Spoiler

in the sewer, their first fight. The bit where he mentions his punishment is after he injurs his back. Then he puts him into prison where he is to suffer and watch 'powerlessly' as Gotham is destroyed.

So when does the back brake? And which is the final fight?

 

[LorenzoVon]

I got a movie idea based off fight club and I'd like some feedback on it

Its set in a near time where cops and criminals have agreed to settle their differences in private in a bare knuckle fight. The story follows a rookie new cop who follows his mentor in this organisation.

Whatdya think?
Who would you cast in it? I was thinking Ryan gosling, tom hardy

The way the fights work are like this: names of the cops and criminals who enter the arena are listed and chosen at random.
Or someone can volunteer to fight someone else if they both agree to it

 

[Ferd]

So when does the back brake? And which is the final fight?

Spoiler

His back does not break. See earlier reply regarding this (a few posts up.) But his back gets really messed up at the end of the fight in the sewer. The final fight with Bane is out on the steps in broad daylight.

 

[Great Mind(s)]

Spoiler

So she's a fake Holly? What's the point in that? Are you sure her name is Jen and not Holly?

 

[Ferd]

Spoiler

So she's a fake Holly? What's the point in that? Are you sure her name is Jen and not Holly?

Yes,

Spoiler

I am positive it's not Holly. I have heard one guy say he wasn't sure her name was even mentioned, and two say her name is 'Jen.' But yeah, she is pretty much a Holly type, but without the name or much screentime.

 

[Great Mind(s)]

Yes,

Spoiler

I am positive it's not Holly. I have heard one guy say he wasn't sure her name was even mentioned, and two say her name is 'Jen.' But yeah, she is pretty much a Holly type, but without the name or much screentime.

That's ridiculous. I hate how he does that. He has a character just like their comic counterpart yet calls them by a generic stupid name.

 

[kthevs]

From what I understand,

Spoiler

Bruce is intrigued with her from their first meeting, which causes him to look into her and then follow her to the party (thanks to a tracker in his mother's pearls she stole) where they share the dance and have that sparky chat. I think (as Bale put it) she isn't the sort of person you would expect him to be drawn to, but she makes him laugh in a time when he could really use some levity) and she is intriguing. I believe it was Name (or possibly Film Freak) who said he basically doesn't give up hope on her (which could be a callback to Alfred not giving up on him) but in Bruce's typical way he is trying to redeem her from her sordid ways. I think in the movie she does what she does out of necessity, but it turn has a conscience about it (there is that bit where she apparently calls out her friend Jen for looting and defending that it's 'somebody's home.') So I think that whole 'fresh start' thing is a main theme for her, and Bruce, too--and he sees a shred of good in her and wants to help bring that out. And in the end they both get to escape the darkness their past circumstances have led them to and get a fresh start--be it alone or together is up for debate. I think all of the guys have confirmed there is nothing 'mushy' or overly romantic about their relationship.

Spoiler

According to all the people I have spoken to, whether or not they will stay together forever is up for interpretation (which is the case for pretty much every romance). Whether or not they are together at the end is not. It's obvious, and according to theshape, it's logical given their relationship in the movie and their interaction. Not to mention the fact that this is Bruce and Selina we are talking about. It's not "mushy" but that just fits into what Nolan likes to do. He won't make the scene mushy. That doesn't mean that they aren't a couple.

This is a direct copy and paste from the guy I talked to on Nolandans(reliable poster who was the first one to tell me about the ending)-

"The cafe thing is a way for us to see what Bruce's life is like. Alfred is a plot device for this scene. He sees what bruce's life is like, and we are next to him as an audience, seeing the same thing. It can't just be bruce as loner in Gotham to bruce as a loner in France. That's no change or progression. Selina is there to show us that the two of them are together now. That bruce finally has a normal life and does normal things like hanging out at a cafe with his girlfriend. The only person bruce has from his past life to his current life is Selina. That's it. That alone speaks volumes."



No one said there is nothing romantic about their relationship, they said there is nothing too romantic about that one particular scene. This is bruce and selina we are talking about, they can't just be platonic buddies. That would be like turning the joker into a good guy.



That all ties into their characters in the comics. How they wished they had different lives so they could be together, but they can't because he's always Batman, and she's always catwoman. With those walls down and with them getting the new lives they wanted, it all makes perfect sense. I get that you don't want them to be together and you will choose to see it as openended no matter how obvious it is, but I'm going to go by what everyone is saying is clearly Jonah's intent. Not to mention how he insisted on having Selina in this movie.

 

[floreairfoot]

Does anyone know if Selina still helps that boy in the movie?

I just wanted to see if it was edited out. I was really looking forward to it.

 

[Ferd]

Does anyone know if Selina still helps that boy in the movie?

I just wanted to see if it was edited out. I was really looking forward to it.

Are you talking about

Spoiler

the bit with the apple? If so, then yes, it's in the movie from what I've heard.

 

[jacobed]

Does anyone know if Selina still helps that boy in the movie?

I just wanted to see if it was edited out. I was really looking forward to it.

Its usually a given that with a Christopher Nolan movie, a man that does no reshoots and knows exactly the movie he wants, that there are very little to no deleted scenes.

 

[Ferd]

Spoiler

According to all the people I have spoken to, whether or not they will stay together forever is up for interpretation (which is the case for pretty much every romance). Whether or not they are together at the end is not. It's obvious, and according to theshape, it's logical given their relationship in the movie and their interaction. Not to mention the fact that this is Bruce and Selina we are talking about. It's not "mushy" but that just fits into what Nolan likes to do. He won't make the scene mushy. That doesn't mean that they aren't a couple.

This is a direct copy and paste from the guy I talked to on Nolandans(reliable poster who was the first one to tell me about the ending)-

"The cafe thing is a way for us to see what Bruce's life is like. Alfred is a plot device for this scene. He sees what bruce's life is like, and we are next to him as an audience, seeing the same thing. It can't just be bruce as loner in Gotham to bruce as a loner in France. That's no change or progression. Selina is there to show us that the two of them are together now. That bruce finally has a normal life and does normal things like hanging out at a cafe with his girlfriend. The only person bruce has from his past life to his current life is Selina. That's it. That sloen speaks volumes."



No one said there is nothing romantic about their relationship, they said there is nothing too romantic about that one particular scene. This is bruce and selina we are talking about, they can't just be platonic buddies. That would be like turning the joker into a good guy.



That all ties into their characters in the comics. How they wished they had different lives so they could be together, but they can't because he's always Batman, and she's always catwoman. With those walls down and with them getting the new lives they wanted, it all makes perfect sense.

To not beat a dead horse, I think the main point is,

Spoiler

this movie is not a romance but about Bruce and coming to terms with where his choice to be Batman has led him, and so the interraction with Bruce/Selina Bat/Cat romance/connection serves its place because Selina's character is also looking for a fresh start away from her mistakes and misfortune, and their 'romance' isn't something that is really hammered home with a mallet. (Let's face it, Romance onscreen isn't one of Nolan's strong points) It is there, hinted at, a connection shown, a ying and yang and a spark, that's clear,--they share two kisses--both initiated by Selina, and yet she also lures him to Bane where he is nearly killed but then saves his life later, so the end is there for people to go with and interpret however they see fit as far as what else might transpire between these two complicated characters.

All this talk is really about a scene that is described as 3 seconds long with Selina not being the focus but moreso Bruce, and again the nod to Alfred calling back to their earlier chat and again showing Alfred that Bruce is alive and will be 'okay'. Yes, it is closure that Bruce is hanging up Batman and will in fact be living 'a normal life' (as normal as one can be given his past and personality) whereas the same can be said for Selina. I think that's where the splitting hairs come in. Shippers in the Bat/Cat camp will see it as finally the two settling down forever because they have no more barriers, but others who are more focused on Bruce's inner motivation and character as a whole (outside romantic endeavors) may doubt he (and arguably Selina) are capable of ever being domesticated in the manner most of us are familiar with. Even if despite the fact that the obstacles that keep them apart are removed, they may in fact learn that was which also connected them. I think even Bale hints in his interviews that Bruce would never really ever hang up the Bat because he seems to be game for another if Chris finds the right script--even mentioning The Dark Knight Returns as an option when he gets a little more up in years. And they do make a point in the movie to mention that the Wayne Estate can't be closed so there is also that hint...

 

[reper35]

Ok, a question and a comment...

Question:

Spoiler

How is Bruce Wayne's death explained? What is the official story to what happened to him?

Comment, and I definitely haven't seen anyone talk about this, and it's a biggie to me...

Spoiler

So Batman himself never defeats Bane? Bane puts him our of commission in the first fight, and Selina saves his butt in the second one? I'm going to reserve judgment until I see it, but that renders our hero somewhat impotent, does it not? I mean, he NEVER gets the job done when it comes to Bane. I know Nolan is above cheesy story telling, but for the hero to NOT redeem himself against an enemy that defeated him...I don't know what to think about that...

Spoiler

According to the spoilers, Batman beats the hell out of Bane the 2nd time, breaking his mask as he is on the floor whimpering, Talia shows up and stabs Batman and ties him up, fixes his mask and tells Bane to keep him alive so B
atman can see Gotham burn. Talia leaves to finish triggering the bomb and Bane tells a tied up Batman that "You know I have to kill you" and proceeds to aim a sawed off shotgun at his head and right before he pulls the trigger a blast from the batpod canyon that Catwoman is riding permanently disables Bane. So Batman gets his revenge from the first fight, but it is Talia's betrayl that puts him in position to need Catwoman's help.