The Dark Knight Rises TDKR SPOILERS (read at your own risk) - Part 2

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to doomofman, john blake spoiler:

personally the robin inclusion is unexpected for me as i have seen many time that nolan's quote about robin being in a crib somewhere. but i don't know what use are his cave and tech tools for john blake? does he possess the same level of technological know-how and intelligence as Bruce? without fox guidance?

another thing disappoint me about the movie, the relationship between batman and gordon:

they have just one scene together - the flare sceen - when batman return to gotham, not counting the hospital scene.
 
Frankly
This whole ending pissing over the entire character of Batman. This isn't a *gig* he picks up *occasionally* for about nine years. Jean Paul Valley wasn't Bruce's choice, he was unable to perform, and had to stop him. This? Batman would never do such a thing. He's far too paranoid to let some beat cop just take his mantel. He delusional for pete's sake! Nolan wrote the biggest emo-cry baby to ever wear the Bat suit

Is this Batman that though? In the comics yeah from what I read years ago, but does that also apply to Nolan's Batman?
 
Some folks are just so misguided with their thoughts on the "ending". It's sad.
 
Just now thought to ask this. Only mildly spoilerish at most.
Is it Pavel that gives Bane the mask?
 
another thing disappoint me about the movie, the relationship between batman and gordon:

Okay, I'm being serious, I might not even watch the new Batman. This just sounds way too disappointing. I'm surprised some of the people who watched it found it the best, when it just looks like this is a simple good vs evil story. How sad...
 
to Optimus_Prime_ :
remember when harvey dent shown up in gotham as the white knight, and bruce
ready to let go the batman persona? bruce has shown that he was looking for a way out.and then the joker came along and ruined everything. now how can bruce feel it's ok to leave the cave and stuff to john blake?
 
ready to let go the batman persona? bruce has shown that he was looking for a way out.and then the joker came along and ruined everything. now how can bruce feel it's ok to leave the cave and stuff to john blake?

I'm guessing they didn't expand on that then?

God, this sounds truly bad. Really bad.
 
i feel the ending is rushed. maybe nolan purposely leave certain things in the air so people could speculate and discuss for years to come?
hey ras al fool, because of my expectation the unsatisfying part (imo) of the movie really stick out as of now. and i have expected that bane will not be as captivating as the joker. i know it and i am fine with it. when i see it again on thursday 19th my opinion on the film will definitely change. but i suggest you keep your expectation low.
 
Some folks are just so misguided with their thoughts on the "ending". It's sad.

Please elaborate if you're going to criticize.

I'll grant you that the film may convince me otherwise, but I don't think I will ever be happy with John Blake having the first or middle name of "Robin". It's a mantle, like Batman or Catwoman. It would have been much better if he was referring to as "Nightwing" as a nickname or something. Maybe the film will convince me otherwise, but I think that's the thing that really bugs me, because I don't mind Batman having a successor.

I mean, I would also prefer that the character of Robin be named Dick Grayson, but I can understand how having that in the cast would spoil the reveal. It just isn't a very good reveal in the first place. I've always been fine with him playing the role of Robin; it just seems disrespectful to the character to change him so much like that. This is, of course, assuming all we've heard is true.

Back to the thing about successors, though, remember that line in TDK when Bruce says "that wasn't what I had in mind when I said I wanted to inspire people" about the Batman impersonators? What sets Batman apart is that he has the equipment and the training. With Wayne Enterprises tanking, it seems to me like Blake has neither...

One question though, while you're here: does Blake get to know Bruce really well, or does he only really know Batman?
 
Please elaborate if you're going to criticize.

I'll grant you that the film may convince me otherwise, but I don't think I will ever be happy with John Blake having the first or middle name of "Robin". It's a mantle, like Batman or Catwoman. It would have been much better if he was referring to as "Nightwing" as a nickname or something. Maybe the film will convince me otherwise, but I think that's the thing that really bugs me, because I don't mind Batman having a successor.

I mean, I would also prefer that the character of Robin be named Dick Grayson, but I can understand how having that in the cast would spoil the reveal. It just isn't a very good reveal in the first place. I've always been fine with him playing the role of Robin; it just seems disrespectful to the character to change him so much like that. This is, of course, assuming all we've heard is true.

Back to the thing about successors, though, remember that line in TDK when Bruce says "that wasn't what I had in mind when I said I wanted to inspire people" about the Batman impersonators? What sets Batman apart is that he has the equipment and the training. With Wayne Enterprises tanking, it seems to me like Blake has neither...

One question though, while you're here: does Blake get to know Bruce really well, or does he only really know Batman?

This is what Shape said about his thoughts regarding the ending; and for anyone interested in the ENDING..please just read this instead of asking the same question over and over again to those that have been gracious enough to repeat themselves:


Now that it seems everyone has read the detailed spoilers, I don't mind answering this. Of course, some of the spoilers are hard to imagine out of context, but whatever. This will be lengthy and do not read if you don't want the real deal:


At the end of the film's climax, Batman is assumed dead but he has saved Gotham. This time around, everyone knows it was the Batman who acted as their savior. He is memorialized in the form of a statue and his actions are celebrated by the city. Before Bruce leaves Gotham indefinitely, he gets his will and certain things in order, which is how Blake is left with the means to find the cave entrance. It is implied that Bruce has also restored the Batsignal on the roof of the GCPD.

As you know, it's revealed that 'Robin' is a part of Blake's full name, and throughout the film, we have seen how he has been inspired by the Batman's actions. He also struggles with what he CAN and CAN'T do as a cop, including the fact that his job will sometime require him to kill. In the end, after seeing the selfless action of the Batman, he tosses his badge away and leaves the force behind, symbolically beginning his journey of becoming something 'more' than a cop. This mirrors Bruce throwing away the gun in BB. I think that moment in BB is when Bruce 'became' Batman, and this moment in TDKR is when Blake 'becomes' Robin.

Batman has seen the good in Blake and recognized the similarities between Blake and himself. Like Bruce, Blake understands the importance of justice and that it often requires the will to act, not just standing back and letting others lead you...but taking control of your destiny. This is why Bruce decides to leave him with the means to do so. We don't know all of the things that Bruce has left 'Robin', but access to the cave and his equipment is one of them.

Here's where my ideas come into play: No, Blake is not ready to just suit up and hit the streets. This is only the beginning of his journey, much like the early events of BB were the beginning of Bruce's. I'm sure that among the other things Bruce left to Blake were instructions or hints at how to train and prepare himself for the things he may encounter. Or, he has trusted Blake to find his own way. That we do not know for sure. We don't even know if Blake will follow through and become this new hero...but I believe he will.

The fact that his full name is revealed also says something to me. Throughout the whole film, he refers to himself as John Blake. He is clearly embarrassed or uninterested in using his full (or real) name. He may have even been bullied for it as a child. But when collecting the bag Bruce left him, the woman asks him for his name. He replies, "John Blake". She then says, "You should use your full name...Robin." He smiles, which to me indicates that he is ready to embrace this other part of him that has remained dormant for some time. So, in my eyes, there's a great chance that Blake will use the means provided to him to create a NEW symbol for Gotham, one that he can make his own. He can build his own reputation, much like Bruce created his own. OR he can choose to take the symbol of the Batman and allow that symbol to live on. The whole city believes Batman to be dead and gone, but if he were to return and that signal was to shine again, it would prove that the Batman is immortal in the eyes of Gotham (and this is partially true since Bruce survived).

It's completely left to interpretation and can be debated for the next century. ALSO, the fact that Bruce is clearly still alive and well led me to imagine that someday he would return...when he is ready. He could return to Gotham and train Blake in secret, or he could simply return to aid him in a time of need. IMO, there are many more stories to be told in Nolan's Batman universe. We just will never see them...but, we can imagine them. :yay:

This is what I love about the ending. People are panicking about the Robin thing or Blake potentially become Batman, but it's no different than Bruce training and fighting alongside a 13-year-old orphan. IMO, this version of Robin is much more realistic and Blake does EARN this trust from Bruce. They share a special bond during the film, and Bruce clearly deems him worthy of becoming a part of his world.

In Batman Begins, Bruce sets out on this journey of finding himself. He does find himself and, over the course of the trilogy, experiences success, failure, pain, and redemption -- a complete story arc that is stretched over three films. Bruce has done what he needed to do. He's happy...for now. He's moved on from Gotham...for now. We do not know if he will return, but he's already given so much to the people of Gotham. Maybe he's content with remaining in the shadows for the rest of his life. But in my eyes...probably not. Still, for now, he has helped set another man on a path towards redemption and self-sacrific. I loved it. This is how I described it to the one person so far that I told the ending to:

One journey ends. Another begins.
 
This is what Shape said about his thoughts regarding the ending; and for anyone interested in the ENDING..please just read this instead of asking the same question over and over again to those that have been gracious enough to repeat themselves:

Since you quoted me, I guess I should assume that was pointed at me. You shouldn't assume that I hadn't already read that; I read that back when he posted it. That doesn't mean I like what I've heard about the ending. The fact that I dislike it doesn't mean that I am "misguided," and what Shape has said time and time again is not responsive to my concerns that you quoted. [blackout]It's still silly to make "Robin" part of the character's name instead of his moniker. [/blackout][blackout] (And if Bruce or somebody has restored the Bat-Symbol, the insinuation is definitely that a Bat-related figure will be replacing Bruce.) [/blackout] Just because I don't buy into the "John Blake taking up the mantle as a representation of the new Gotham" doesn't mean that I don't get it. Bruce kept saying in TDK that Gotham needed people who will enforce the law instead of standing outside of it. [blackout]John Blake the police officer standing for what is right is a better symbol of what Bruce wanted than John Blake going "rogue."[/blackout]

My question that I asked was not answered in your post, and I do not think that I have seen it asked elsewhere: [blackout] I asked whether Blake gets to know Bruce really well, or whether the only side of the man that he gets to know is Batman. [/blackout]If Shape has already answered that, then fine, but I haven't seen it posted.

Please calm down. I know that a lot of people here are asking the same questions over and over again, and I appreciate your being patient with a lot of these people by quoting Name and others. But you have no reason to respond to me like that.
 
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Since you quoted me, I guess I should assume that was pointed at me. You shouldn't assume that I hadn't already read that; I read that back when he posted it. That doesn't mean I like what I've heard about the ending. The fact that I dislike it doesn't mean that I am "misguided," and what Shape has said time and time again is not responsive to my concerns that you quoted. It's still silly to make "Robin" part of the character's name instead of his moniker. [blackout] (And if Bruce or somebody has restored the Bat-Symbol, the insinuation is definitely that a Bat-related figure will be replacing Bruce.) [/blackout]

My question that I asked was not answered in your post, and I do not think that I have seen it asked elsewhere: [blackout] I asked whether Blake gets to know Bruce really well, or whether the only side of the man that he gets to know is Batman. [/blackout]If Shape has already answered that, then fine, but I haven't seen it posted.

Please calm down. I know that a lot of people here are asking the same questions over and over again, and I appreciate your being patient with a lot of these people by quoting Name and others. But you have no reason to respond to me like that.

Shape's answer was meant to be aimed at you since you had requested for the ending...as for my part regarding people asking the same questions, it wasn't aimed at you but others in general.

Plus;
I would think that with Shape saying on how much good Bruce has seen in Blake, that would be an indication of how well they get along together in the film.
 
Some folks are just so misguided with their thoughts on the "ending". It's sad.

This.

And most of the time, these comic purists only know/acknowledge ONE version of Batman and base everything around that version.

In the time I've read Batman comics, I've read Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age, Post Crisis, New Earth, and New 52. All those versions contradict themselves in some ways, yet you expect Nolan to be beholden to them?
 
Shape's answer was meant to be aimed at you since you had requested for the ending...

No, I didn't, dude... I asked this:
One question though, while you're here: does Blake get to know Bruce really well, or does he only really know Batman?

that would be an indication of how well they get along together in the film.
Look, I don't think you get my question.
Wayne is both playboy Bruce and vigilante Batman, right? We know that Wayne sees good in Blake. That's not my question. Does Blake know Bruce or does Blake know Batman? The audience, of course, realizes that Blake knows both people, but Blake doesn't. (e.g., Gordon doesn't know Bruce; Gordon knows Batman. Dent knows both, separately. Rachel and Alfred know both together.)

So my question is relevant to the impact of the reveal at the end. Since Blake goes to Bruce's will hearing, I assume that he knows Bruce personally and not just him as Batman, but no one has gone into this.
 
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Nolan includes Bruce saying he fixed the auto-pilot in the script, I think he probably just jumped out and let it fly some distance on autopilot before it exploded. You saw the movie, we didn't.

Unless Alfred acts delusional in the film, I think we're supposed to think he sees Bruce at the cafe. Name said it was a rather quick shot, but long enough for us to see that this time, Alfred isn't just thinking that he saw Bruce. Name said Alfred finds a ticket, or something along those lines too, didn't he? My assumption was that Bruce sent Alfred a ticket so he alone would know the truth.

I haven't seen the film, but it seems obvious from what i've been reading that Bruce probably knew Alfred would be at that cafe, so made it so he could see him. Maybe it was his way of saying I'm ok and I'm done as the bat man and am moving on. Guess that's a Nolan ending for ya, leaves it up for you to decide.
 
hey commodore,
i would say blake regards bruce as kindred spirit. the first time they met,
blake knew bruce is batman because he sees right through that the playboy persona is an act. they only have like 2 scenes together.also there is a scene where blake give up his badge at the end of the film.
 
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This.

And most of the time, these comic purists only know/acknowledge ONE version of Batman and base everything around that version.

In the time I've read Batman comics, I've read Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age, Post Crisis, New Earth, and New 52. All those versions contradict themselves in some ways, yet you expect Nolan to be beholden to them?

Indeed; and based on how well received characters like Two Face and Ra's were, despite on how Nolan tweaked them to fit in his world, I'd like to think that we'd give the guy enough credit to wait and see on how it's shown on screen before judging it entirely.

No, I didn't, dude... I asked this:
One question though, while you're here: does Blake get to know Bruce really well, or does he only really know Batman?

My mistake..well nevertheless I hope that quote answers the questions for anyone else regarding that part of the ending then.
 
hey commodore,
i would say blake regards bruce as kindred spirit. the first time they met,
blake knew bruce is batman because he sees right through that the playboy persona is an act. they only have like 2 scenes together.

Thank you. This is sort of what I was looking for. [BLACKOUT]In Year One, a lot of people suspect that Bruce Wayne is Batman. It has seemed odd to me that no one except his accountant has done that in this version.

But just for clarification, you mean that Blake and Bruce have two scenes together, right? I would assume that Batman and Blake have more than two together. [/BLACKOUT]
 
Bruce does get to know Blake throughout the film. They're not best budzzz, but they do have a relationship and Bruce/Batmn guides him (albiet not obviously) by teaching him things along the way. One example: Bruce explains that he wears a mask to protect those close to him.
 
According to a reviewer from australia he said the fights were below average.....

"Action hmmmm more then the previous films that isfor sure, but thats not exactly a good thing. There are a lot more "cartoony" & farther reaching scenes projected here. Plus Bane while a cool character didn't seem as tough as a match for the cape crusader. Just bare knuckle brawling him when batman is wearing huge amount of armor, felt unrealistic compared to what you would expect from Nolan. Basicly the fights where below average, but the set pieces were very fun to look at even if a little to "extreme" from reality at times. 5/10"
 
This.

And most of the time, these comic purists only know/acknowledge ONE version of Batman and base everything around that version.

In the time I've read Batman comics, I've read Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age, Post Crisis, New Earth, and New 52. All those versions contradict themselves in some ways, yet you expect Nolan to be beholden to them?

Yep.

And the funny thing is that this version of Robin is as true to the character as any other version of the character, in spirit and in essence. Also, the progression of Blake --> Robin is pretty gradual and somewhat realistic, instead of just having his parents shot. This guy has a burden on his shoulders. He contemplates what is right and wrong, what he can and cannot do for his city. Sure, Batman is the catalyst for his evolution, but he also reaches his destiny on his own terms. I thought it was pretty cool.
 
commodore:
cannot not say for sure only 2 scenes between the two because like i said the film is packed and my memory is crappy. what theShape said
about wearing a mask to protect those he loves - does it happen in the first scene when they met in bruce manor or later? i do not remember.
 
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