The Dark Knight Rises TDKR SPOILERS (read at your own risk) - Part 4

[Reikowolf]

There are no mental leaps required.

The explosion is shown from a very far distance -- you can't possibly claim that Bruce is quite clearly in the Bat when it's destroyed.

Again, you're ignoring some serious evidence here.

1. We're not shown that Batman dies explicitly.

2. The autopilot fix is mentioned.

3. The bat signal is repaired despite the fact that everyone thinks Batman is dead and a statue has been erected.

4. Blake is given GPS coordinates to the batcave after the fact.

5. The pearl necklace is missing from the manifest.

6. Alfred gets a note mentioning this. The necklace has a tracking device that leads him to the cafe.

7. We're shown explicitly that Bruce and Selina are in the cafe, fulfilling Alfred's earlier "wish" foreshadowed at the start of the movie.

8. We know they had identity-wiping software, so it doesn't really matter if someone recognizes them.


In order for your interpretation to work, you have to basically ignore all of this and assume evidence is fake and that Alfred is just hallucinating his vision. It's not ambiguous. You're just making something ambiguous because you want it to be.

agreed, which is why I feel Nolan showed Bruce and Selina at the end instead of a more enigmatic ending with Alfred simply smiling.

I know there was a lot of debate over the spinning top at the end of inception. To that end, I feel the ending was very clear. Nolan has shown a talent for laying things out very clearly in his films.

If you pay close attention, even Miranda Tate's lines are very carefully chosen to hark back to Ras Al Ghul's lines from batman begins

"doing what is necessary" specifically.

 

[MiniBond]

Stupid nitpicking I know but I remember the photo of Rachel that Miranda holds: it's a production still of TDK's dinner at the restaurant ... I don't think there were any photographers there !

 

[NoBozos]

I just had to sign up to say that the movie was great and the nitpickers are either

1-very young kids
2-just trying to get a rise(no pun intended) out of people
3-wound a little too tight (see Bill Shatner on SNL telling the fanboys to chill)

Somewhere on here the other day someone said something like "you don't see them go to the bathroom every time they need to go either" -that pretty much sums it all up. Sometimes things happen off camera.

I thought the ending was great. I think they might have called him "Robin" for the more casual fan who knows that character but not the alias...?

Batman lived just like in the comic. Only thing missing was Clark Kent turning and giving a wink. And it's been awhile since I read that but didn't he get some kind of a homeless kid army at the end of that graphic novel? If so, there they are living in his house.

The reaction of those goons while Bane is whipping Bats was great. And then Bats' reaction when Talia stabbed him was fantastic.

Sad to see it all end, and even sadder what happened with the shootings on Friday. I think a lot of that is playing on some of the reactions around here.

I can't wait to see it again.

 

[Syncope]

Stupid nitpicking I know but I remember the photo of Rachel that Miranda holds: it's a production still of TDK's dinner at the restaurant ... I don't think there were any photographers there !

Yeah, that was a bit clumsy. I think it's something only the die hard fans would notice though.

 

[The Derp Knight]

Yeah, that was a bit clumsy. I think it's something only the die hard fans would notice though.

Lol when I saw that my immediate thought was "Bruce was recording everything with a button camera on his coat"

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

I loved the scenes where Batman used his Bruce voice to speak to Selena and in the end with Miranda. Very emotional an powerful.

 

[HelloImBen]

I wasn't being entirely serious when I said Alfred was hallucinating.

The big problem for me is that we are also shown, quite clearly in my opinion, that Bruce is in the bat when it's destroyed in the nuclear blast. I think the whole autopilot thing is a bit of a cop out and requires a few mental leaps to get there. And also the fact that Bruce Wayne is recognised and known around the world. Faking your death yet living quite openly don't really work well together.

I have already stated many friggin' times that my interpretation is not sound either. There are plenty of reasons to doubt it. I don't particularly want my interpretation to be the right ending, but Bruce faking his death just doesn't fully cut it. It may well be that the ending is more flawed than ambigious, but it doesn't really matter. There is enough there to suspect that Batman really did die. Can we move on now? This entire thing is getting ridiculous.

If only Nolan had given Bruce a moustache in the ending so we know he's trying to hide his identity!

Every movie from 2010 until the end of time is Inception or has an Inception ending. Fact.

It makes me sad that there are a decent amount of people out there that think Batman died at the end of this movie.

 

[Reed Richards]

I have a question. Does Batman's suit have a built in thing that disguises hit voice? If it doesn't I think it's weird when he still uses the Batman voice when talking to people who know who he is. If it has something built in, nevermind.

 

[kthevs]

Every movie from 2010 until the end of time is Inception or has an Inception ending. Fact.

It makes me sad that there are a decent amount of people out there that think Batman died at the end of this movie.

Sure, but 99% know that he didn't. It's only a matter of time till someone from the film comes out and explains the ending to the slow people who think he died. Plus, the official novel comes out soon, as does the script. Hopefully those will clear things up.

 

[Reikowolf]

Sure, but 99% know that he didn't. It's only a matter of time till someone from the film comes out and explains the ending to the slow people who think he died. Plus, the official novel comes out soon, as does the script. Hopefully those will clear things up.

Often times this doesn't help either. It tends to be a problem with raised expectations. People are so firmly set on what they feel a film should be, that when presented with something different (especially the opposite of what they were expecting) they have a hard time accepting it and find ways of skewing the facts to fit their opinions.

It's okay to not love a movie; but to try and ruin other people's enjoyment of it only shows how petty a person is that they feel no one can enjoy something they didn't

My only hope was that the movie would tie into Batman Begins and even the League of Shadows. To that end, the movie was amazing to me.

 

[NoBozos]

I spoiled part of TDK from reading these forums. That happened here again for some people.

This time I did thw best I could to not spoil it. I also did the best I could to not put "this is what this movie needs to be" out of my head. I saw it early Friday so it was hard enough to forget about the shooting long enough to enjoy the film.

It's not a perfect movie but it's not a POS with George Clooney either.

 

[Syncope]

I have a question. Does Batman's suit have a built in thing that disguises hit voice? If it doesn't I think it's weird when he still uses the Batman voice when talking to people who know who he is. If it has something built in, nevermind.

It's never mentioned, but I doubt it. I think he maintains the voice when talking to people who know he is Batman in case anyone is sneakily listening in.

 

[The Guard]

The thing about Bane's plan...is the city didn't have false hope. Near as I can tell, they were miserable because they were overrun with criminals. And as far as I can tell, the city didn't even know about the bomb at the end, so they weren't exactly despairing for their lives there, either.

As far as the end of the movie being ambiguous...right now it's not, but you know what would have been cool?

Alfred enters cafe.

Alfred sits, sees Bruce and Selina. Bruce acknowledges him.

Alfred turns to a waiter. When he looks back, Bruce and Selina are gone.

Cut to Blake's stuff.

Was it real? Did Bruce just pull the disappearing act? Ambiguity ensues.

Endingwise, the autopilot thing is okay, especially since it gets us that moment with Fox. But the best ending, for me...which could have encompassed the autopilot stuff...

It's early morning. Dark. Instead of what's in the film, we see Batman taking the bat with the bomb, but not just out to sea. Out to sea...and UP. You know...rising.

Then, after Alfred is in the cafe, we see juxtaposed in brief flashback, at some point, Batman gliding from The Bat as it continues its autopilot ascent, taking in the night, riding the winds, Gotham City laid out beneath him.

One last great shot of Batman in his element. One gliding shot since we got none.

And we see the dawn begin to come.

 

[tdeverea]

The thing about Bane's plan...is the city didn't have false hope. Near as I can tell, they were miserable because they were overrun with criminals. And as far as I can tell, the city didn't even know about the bomb at the end, so they weren't exactly despairing for their lives there, either.

As far as the end of the movie being ambiguous...right now it's not, but you know what would have been cool?

Alfred enters cafe.

Alfred sits, sees Bruce and Selina. Bruce acknowledges him.

Alfred turns to a waiter. When he looks back, Bruce and Selina are gone.

Cut to Blake's stuff.

Was it real? Did Bruce just pull the disappearing act? Ambiguity ensues.

Endingwise, the autopilot thing is okay, especially since it gets us that moment with Fox. But the best ending, for me...which could have encompassed the autopilot stuff...

It's early morning. Dark. Instead of what's in the film, we see Batman taking the bat with the bomb, but not just out to sea. Out to sea...and UP. You know...rising.

Then, after Alfred is in the cafe, we see juxtaposed in brief flashback, at some point, Batman gliding from The Bat as it continues its autopilot ascent, taking in the night, riding the winds, Gotham City laid out beneath him.

One last great shot of Batman in his element. One gliding shot since we got none.

And we see the dawn begin to come.

That would've been an awesome ending... I just wish they had given us a proper Robin. But that's for another thread.

 

[schaferba]

Why did Catwoman betray Batman to Bane. That is the one piece I cant seem to put together. What was her benefit?

 

[The Guard]

Forced melodrama.

 

[Reikowolf]

Why did Catwoman betray Batman to Bane. That is the one piece I cant seem to put together. What was her benefit?

they were going to kill her. she had already crossed Dagget and she knew that Dagget and Bane were working together on the stock exchange heist against Bruce Wayne.

It was her attempt to barter for her life, and she would have made it had Blake not arrested her at the airport

 

[Supermansteve]

I had a theory, don't know if it has been discussed. But, here goes. Right around the time when Batman is flying the Bat about to go over water. What if at the same time he presses the button and it shows the explosion, he also ejects in some type of vehicle. What if when he pressed that button he ejected himself and was out already by the time the Bat was over the water. Let's say they just showed Batman's face after the fact just for the dramatic Hollywood effect but he was actually out and it was on autopilot all along. Seems like a stretch but I cant remember them showing the Bat from outside a couple seconds earlier to justify he was definitely in there. Its a stretch I know but I really dont think Nolan would go the cliche route and have the hero barely escape and survive an atomic bomb. Plus, why even show him pressing the button? But just a theory I had.

 

[Syncope]

The thing about Bane's plan...is the city didn't have false hope. Near as I can tell, they were miserable because they were overrun with criminals. And as far as I can tell, the city didn't even know about the bomb at the end, so they weren't exactly despairing for their lives there, either.

As far as the end of the movie being ambiguous...right now it's not, but you know what would have been cool?

Alfred enters cafe.

Alfred sits, sees Bruce and Selina. Bruce acknowledges him.

Alfred turns to a waiter. When he looks back, Bruce and Selina are gone.

Cut to Blake's stuff.

Was it real? Did Bruce just pull the disappearing act? Ambiguity ensues.

Endingwise, the autopilot thing is okay, especially since it gets us that moment with Fox. But the best ending, for me...which could have encompassed the autopilot stuff...

It's early morning. Dark. Instead of what's in the film, we see Batman taking the bat with the bomb, but not just out to sea. Out to sea...and UP. You know...rising.

Then, after Alfred is in the cafe, we see juxtaposed in brief flashback, at some point, Batman gliding from The Bat as it continues its autopilot ascent, taking in the night, riding the winds, Gotham City laid out beneath him.

One last great shot of Batman in his element. One gliding shot since we got none.

And we see the dawn begin to come.

My God, no.

 

[Broseph44]

they were going to kill her. she had already crossed Dagget and she knew that Dagget and Bane were working together on the stock exchange heist against Bruce Wayne.

It was her attempt to barter for her life, and she would have made it had Blake not arrested her at the airport

Exactly. And correct me if I'm wrong but up until the sewer scene she didn't know Bruce was batman. That's why she was so shocked an upset after Bane referred to him as mr Wayne

 

[schaferba]

they were going to kill her. she had already crossed Dagget and she knew that Dagget and Bane were working together on the stock exchange heist against Bruce Wayne.

It was her attempt to barter for her life, and she would have made it had Blake not arrested her at the airport

I dont know about all that though. Are you saying she just took advantage of an opportunity that fell in her lap? She didnt know that batman was even trying to find Bane until a few hours before they met in the railway. I mean I guess it makes sense if she was offering him to get in their graces or something, but I still feel like something isnt quite right.

 

[schaferba]

Ok this is going to get wordy but... Ok so she pisses of Dagget by attacking him at his home. She doesnt really know who bane is outside of the name in the supercriminal underworld but realizes he is working with Dagget when she and Bats fly away in the... bat. She is trying to figure out her next step in Gotham and how she is going to get her clean slate and like divine intervention BW shows up at her house all like "I have a friend and I want you to introduce him to bane". Boom and she thinks hey I kinda like this Bruce guy but Im a bit angsty an unpredictable and maybe If I give bats to bane he will help me get my clean slate somehow. She talks to Bane, learns his location, takes Bats down there and realizes her mistake when Bane reveals the the bat is indeed BW and just how mean the mo fo is. Now terrified she decides Gotham is just not the city for her and she is off to more Diamond encrusted pastures. But then again maybe a second viewing would help.

 

[Viciousjay]

I spoiled part of TDK from reading these forums. That happened here again for some people.

This time I did thw best I could to not spoil it. I also did the best I could to not put "this is what this movie needs to be" out of my head. I saw it early Friday so it was hard enough to forget about the shooting long enough to enjoy the film.

It's not a perfect movie but it's not a POS with George Clooney either.

in no way shape or form is it but it is the weakest of the three! i just feel with more time or maybe NOT HIS BROTHER WRITING IT would have done this film better justice

 

[Cats]

I thought Nolan was gonna end the movie when We see Alfred look up and then...bam! end credits!! A la Inception...I am glad we got to see Bruce...but makes me sad that Alfred was gonna die alone...that kinda sucks...

Maybe he'll give the house to Blake and move to Europe :P

 

[jacobed]

Seriously though, I wonder when either Chris or Jonah or someone will talk about the ending. I hope within the next few months.

Chris never will because he loves that his audience just think about it and discuss it. He likes to keep the movie magic in place hence why he doesn't really do behind the scenes or commentary