The Amazing Spider-Man The Amazing Spider-Man (First Reactions: Critics, Fans) (Spoiler Alert) - - - - - Part 14

[The /]

Happy to, lol. I just really loved this moment in the film. And for all it's (small) flaws--the broad strokes all work beautifully. The heart of the film is great, the characyerizations are great and the protagonist's journey is rich and satisfying.

We can argue the size of the Lizard's snout, the use of the American flag, if the fight scenes surpass "the train fight", or the rationality of the Lizard's plan 'till the end of time-- but it won't change the fact that it NAILED the big stuff.

The journey of Peter Parker, Peter's relationship with his Aunt and Uncle, the impact of the death of George Stacy, Peter's love of Gwen Stacy and the meaning of Uncle Ben's teaching and their affect on Peter... These are the important things. And Webb knocked them out of the park. The smaller things can be addressed and fixed in the eventual sequel. The important thing, as I've said, is that Spider-man is back. And he's in capable, passionate hands. And that's a good thing.

-R

I couldn't have said it better myself. For me, it was the things you mentioned in that last paragraph that really made me love this film. It felt like a more epic Spider-Man film than what we've seen before. Between those aspects and the humor that was used by Peter/Spider-Man in the film, I got everything that I wanted to see in this film. The little things, especially the silliness of the "American Flag" debate, don't concern me at all. The important things were handled very well.

 

[Micromind]

I posted this in the "character arc" thread, so I'll reiterate here:


I couldn't disagree more.

I thought that the way that they handled the death of Uncle Ben was absolutely beautiful and powerful. To take an event that everyone sees from a mile away and still make it powerful, is no easy task.

I'll elaborate...

Ben and Peter argue. Ben tells him about responsibility and that if he is in the position to help a person, it is his moral responsibility to do so. This speech is compounded with the speech Ben gives Peter at school in an earlier scene where he tells Peter that life isn't about revenge or "getting even."

Peter storms out and walks around the neighborhood -- angry at his Uncle, but more angry at the fact that his own Father isn't alive to give him this speech.

Ben goes out searching for Peter, calling him on his phone with no answer... He leaves a voicemail.

Peter goes to a connivence store, has a disagreement with the clerk, the clerk is robbed, and the thief runs into the street. Peter then sees the thief knock into his Uncle Ben, and a gun falls free. Ben sees the gun and sees that he has a chance to grab it and help the innocent bystanders, and acts on what he believes is his responsibility. Ben struggles with the thief for the gun. Peter watches, stunned, as the thief gets the better of Ben and fires of a fatal shot. Ben dies in Peter's arms...

Peter then ignores everything that Ben has taught him. Consumed by rage and anger, Peter uses his newfound power only to avenge the death of his Uncle. He acts selfishly and recklessly.

At the Stacy's house is where he is put in his place by George, and he begins to realize just how silly and selfish he is being. And that as much as he tries to justify what he is doing -- there is no escaping the fact that he is doing just what Uncle Ben warned him not to do. It's "not about getting even," it's not about revenge. And the powers he has aren't to be used for his own gain -- it's his moral obligation to help others with them... his responsibility.

The lesson sinks in and is set in stone when he is fighting the Lizard on the bridge. He has the opportunity to pursue the Lizard but is torn by the plea of a father to save his son. Upon saving the child, and seeing him reunited with his father, he understands what Ben meant and totally takes the lesson to heart. He goes from "that spider guy" and becomes "Spider-man."

The voicemail at the end -- when he listens to it in full is just symbolic of the lesson. Right after Ben's death, Peter played the message, but shut it off prematurely, he wasn't ready to hear those words yet -- he was still clouded by rage and acting selfishly. He wanted to kill only his own pain, that's all. By the film's end he has accepted his responsibility as a hero to the city and it's symbolized and reaffirmed by him now being able and ready to hear Ben's message out.

It's truly a great arc, and a beautiful moment in the film.

I hope maybe you see it a little more for what it is, and maybe I've swayed you... If not, you enjoy 2002's Spider-man. It's also a great version of the origin, and a favorite film of mine -- this was just better, I think.

-R

I thought the same thing but you have expressed it eloquently thanks.

 

[Spiderdevil]

It's a terrible arc.

1. It's a rip-off from Raimi's 2002 film (Peter refuses to stop the robber because he has a beef with the victim) Only this time Peter wasn't even wronged as was Peter in Raimi's film. Peter was in fact committing wrong however meaningless that wrong is.

Even if thousands of reboots come,that part can never ever change.
Just like Batman's parents death cannot be removed

2. Why the F*** doesn't Peter help his Uncle? Was he that mad at him?

Spoiler

His spider sense alerts him to the Lizard attacking the bridge- but it doesn't alert him to Ben's imminent demise?

The spider sense warns him of the dangers he could face,not what the others will face.
The Lizard is much much more dangerous than thug with a gun,which is why Spidey could sense him from so far off

3. The film completely misses the point. Peter shouldn't have given up the search, because bottomline this guy is still a killer and will very likely kill again. He has to be brought to justice.

There are 100s of killers like that in NY city,for Peter having learnt his lesson,catching any single killer is as important as catching Ben's killer.He is not feuled by revenge anymore

 

[Spiderdevil]

I posted this in the "character arc" thread, so I'll reiterate here:


I couldn't disagree more.

I thought that the way that they handled the death of Uncle Ben was absolutely beautiful and powerful. To take an event that everyone sees from a mile away and still make it powerful, is no easy task.

I'll elaborate...

Ben and Peter argue. Ben tells him about responsibility and that if he is in the position to help a person, it is his moral responsibility to do so. This speech is compounded with the speech Ben gives Peter at school in an earlier scene where he tells Peter that life isn't about revenge or "getting even."

Peter storms out and walks around the neighborhood -- angry at his Uncle, but more angry at the fact that his own Father isn't alive to give him this speech.

Ben goes out searching for Peter, calling him on his phone with no answer... He leaves a voicemail.

Peter goes to a connivence store, has a disagreement with the clerk, the clerk is robbed, and the thief runs into the street. Peter then sees the thief knock into his Uncle Ben, and a gun falls free. Ben sees the gun and sees that he has a chance to grab it and help the innocent bystanders, and acts on what he believes is his responsibility. Ben struggles with the thief for the gun. Peter watches, stunned, as the thief gets the better of Ben and fires of a fatal shot. Ben dies in Peter's arms...

Peter then ignores everything that Ben has taught him. Consumed by rage and anger, Peter uses his newfound power only to avenge the death of his Uncle. He acts selfishly and recklessly.

At the Stacy's house is where he is put in his place by George, and he begins to realize just how silly and selfish he is being. And that as much as he tries to justify what he is doing -- there is no escaping the fact that he is doing just what Uncle Ben warned him not to do. It's "not about getting even," it's not about revenge. And the powers he has aren't to be used for his own gain -- it's his moral obligation to help others with them... his responsibility.

The lesson sinks in and is set in stone when he is fighting the Lizard on the bridge. He has the opportunity to pursue the Lizard but is torn by the plea of a father to save his son. Upon saving the child, and seeing him reunited with his father, he understands what Ben meant and totally takes the lesson to heart. He goes from "that spider guy" and becomes "Spider-man."

The voicemail at the end -- when he listens to it in full is just symbolic of the lesson. Right after Ben's death, Peter played the message, but shut it off prematurely, he wasn't ready to hear those words yet -- he was still clouded by rage and acting selfishly. He wanted to kill only his own pain, that's all. By the film's end he has accepted his responsibility as a hero to the city and it's symbolized and reaffirmed by him now being able and ready to hear Ben's message out.

It's truly a great arc, and a beautiful moment in the film.

I hope maybe you see it a little more for what it is, and maybe I've swayed you... If not, you enjoy 2002's Spider-man. It's also a great version of the origin, and a favorite film of mine -- this was just better, I think.

-R

Excellent point
When I first saw the film I was really confused on how he changed so suddenly from a selfish vigilante to the self sacrificing hero,I realized quite later that George Stacy's speech changed him
Hope they have made this point more clear.How the speech has this effect on him

 

[AbsractPo3tic]

Excellent point
When I first saw the film I was really confused on how he changed so suddenly from a selfish vigilante to the self sacrificing hero,I realized quite later that George Stacy's speech changed him
Hope they have made this point more clear.How the speech has this effect on him [/I]

I feel like Andrew's acting conveyed it perfectly. He said it without saying it

 

[Spiderdevil]

Apart from the Lizard story arc,every single story arc was dealth with beautifully

It would have easily been the best CBM of all times had they worked on the Lizard's story

*Sigh* Squandered potential

 

[AnneFan]

I feel like Andrew's acting conveyed it perfectly. He said it without saying it

Indeed. Andrew played the part his way (hands deep in pockets, hoodie, stammering/quieter voice) and succeeded. His smile lit up the screen and I found it endearing. He and Stone were the biggest strengths.

 

[The Infernal]

For me the film had its flaws, but it was still very enjoyable and I'm interested to see where they can go with TASM2. I think Garfield makes a great Spider-man/Peter Parker and I hope that Rhys Ifan's if back as Dr. Conners in TASM2 because it would be sad to just do away with his character (plus I thought they should have explored his character more in TASM).

 

[Scarlettess]

Happy to, lol. I just really loved this moment in the film. And for all it's (small) flaws--the broad strokes all work beautifully. The heart of the film is great, the characyerizations are great and the protagonist's journey is rich and satisfying.

We can argue the size of the Lizard's snout, the use of the American flag, if the fight scenes surpass "the train fight", or the rationality of the Lizard's plan 'till the end of time-- but it won't change the fact that it NAILED the big stuff.

The journey of Peter Parker, Peter's relationship with his Aunt and Uncle, the impact of the death of George Stacy, Peter's love of Gwen Stacy and the meaning of Uncle Ben's teaching and their affect on Peter... These are the important things. And Webb knocked them out of the park. The smaller things can be addressed and fixed in the eventual sequel. The important thing, as I've said, is that Spider-man is back. And he's in capable, passionate hands. And that's a good thing.

-R

as i said in the other thread, fantastic post, this is why me and my mate love the movie so much. Come on, when we get into an argument or if someone hurts a friend we're not just gonna go 'oh I see their point or why they did that' no we feel angry, and want to vent. I think the way they portrayed Parker's journey in this was perfect, and I love the fact, when he first says 'I'm spider-man' it means something.

on that point that scene when he gives the father back his son, and he's watching on as the father is hugging the boy, even with the mask you can see the emotion that's going through him. Such a beautiful moment.

 

[AbsractPo3tic]

as i said in the other thread, fantastic post, this is why me and my mate love the movie so much. Come on, when we get into an argument or if someone hurts a friend we're not just gonna go 'oh I see their point or why they did that' no we feel angry, and want to vent. I think the way they portrayed Parker's journey in this was perfect, and I love the fact, when he first says 'I'm spider-man' it means something.

on that point that scene when he gives the father back his son, and he's watching on as the father is hugging the boy, even with the mask you can see the emotion that's going through him. Such a beautiful moment.

Yet another reason I love this movie. It didn't hold my hand and tell me what I'm supposed to be feeling. It let the actors do it through subtlety and body language.

 

[Joe_Kickass]

It's a terrible arc.

1. It's a rip-off from Raimi's 2002 film (Peter refuses to stop the robber because he has a beef with the victim) Only this time Peter wasn't even wronged as was Peter in Raimi's film. Peter was in fact committing wrong however meaningless that wrong is.

2. Why the F*** doesn't Peter help his Uncle? Was he that mad at him?

Spoiler

His spider sense alerts him to the Lizard attacking the bridge- but it doesn't alert him to Ben's imminent demise?

3. The film completely misses the point. Peter shouldn't have given up the search, because bottomline this guy is still a killer and will very likely kill again. He has to be brought to justice.

With your first point, that's how it happened in the comics. Spider-Man was going to collect his pay from the wrestling sponsor and he was told he had to sign some contract to do so, but he didn't want to, so he didn't get the money.
So he let the robber go. Same as this situtation. Peter didn't get what he wanted and felt the cashier was treating him unfairly, so screw him.

The second point, when his spider sense went off and he went to the bridge, he went because he wanted to prove that he isn't some masked viligante, while if his spider sense went off there, he probably wouldn't feel the need to help anyone. He didn't know it was his uncle that was shot until he went to go look at the body.

Your last point, Peter became more consumed with the responsibility to stop The Lizard than to find his Uncle's killer. His Uncle's death had a very heavy impact on him, you can see it when he's at school, when he listens to the voicemails, and when Captain Stacy died. He lost two people who he knew within maybe a couple weeks of each other. Maybe the killer aspect will be resolved in the next movie, because he still had the killer's description picture on his wall. And Webb said the origin could spanish over multiple movies.
Maybe because of this search being drawn out it can be more impactful when Peter comes across the killer in the sequel. Of course, I'm expecting you to try to argue with every point I just made, but I'm not going to respond back.
Because I don't feel like it.

 

[Joe_Kickass]

Apart from the Lizard story arc,every single story arc was dealth with beautifully

It would have easily been the best CBM of all times had they worked on the Lizard's story

*Sigh* Squandered potential

Well, I don't know about that. That's pretty hyperbolic lol

 

[optimus2861]

Spider-Man was going to collect his pay from the wrestling sponsor and he was told he had to sign some contract to do so, but he didn't want to, so he didn't get the money.

Actually no. You're thinking of Amazing Spider-Man issue #1, where Spider-Man's performing career comes to an end after he has the promoter write a check to "Spider-Man", but he can't cash it as he can't prove he's Spider-Man to the bank. Then JJJ writes his first editorial against Spider-Man, and the promoter refuses to let Spidey perform any more fearing the negative publicity.

In AF#15, Spidey is just plain full of himself, thinking he's now on top of the world and need not be pushed around by anyone, that he's looking out for #1 - "And that means me!" - when he ignores the cop's plea to stop the robber, then tells off the cop to boot (the cop even considers arresting Spidey for his defiance & attitude).

The "promoter refuses to pay Spidey money" bit was introduced in the 2002 movie IIRC. I don't think the 90s animated series did that; I think it stuck to the "full of himself" Spidey.

 

[The Guard]

Peter Parker's character arc in this film is fantastically realized. Subtle, effective, and slowly building and evolving, with some missteps along the way. Heck, even Dr. Connors had a decent character arc, if an imperfectly executed one.

or how about the fact that -- hey guys, let me gas all of NY with a serum that turns you into a lizard...temporarily...??

Yeah, the serum didn't turn him permanently, why would he presume it would NY? It's a pathetic plot hole that makes no sense and just reeks of lazy writing.

The Lizard's plot is the weakest part of the movie. It's not completely awful, but yeah, its a generic supervillain plot. Except that it kind of isn't. The Lizard's plot wasn't just to turn people into lizards for no reason at all. It was to cure their genetic imperfections.

And as we've seen, a city of people turning into lizards and succuming to their baser instincts isn't a good thing.

And Connors took a controlled dose of the serum. Who knows what widespread serum dispersement with no regard to dosage would have caused?

There are things that can be improved. That doesn't invalidate what's there.

 

[not_a_victim]

Spoiler

Adding George Stacy to the list of male/father figures in Peter's life that have suffered directly or indirectly because of his actions was something I thought would be overkill, especially after their heart-to-heart talk. It worked, however. I just wonder if the trilogy arc will have Peter constantly seeking out father figures, only to have them suffer because of his actions.

 

[Drummerdude7]

Spoiler

Adding George Stacy to the list of male/father figures in Peter's life that have suffered directly or indirectly because of his actions was something I thought would be overkill, especially after their heart-to-heart talk. It worked, however. I just wonder if the trilogy arc will have Peter constantly seeking out father figures, only to have them suffer because of his actions.

Spoiler

Captain Stacy wasn't so much a father figure as he was an authority figure....his purpose was served by inadvertently teaching Peter to stop being selfish.

 

[not_a_victim]

Spoiler

Captain Stacy wasn't so much a father figure as he was an authority figure....his purpose was served by inadvertently teaching Peter to stop being selfish.

Spoiler

But he filled the void of Ben's lack of authority. As an orphan myself, I can tell you we are drawn to strong father figures. 'Course, chasing after Gwen was a plus, as wellt:

 

[Drummerdude7]

Spoiler

But he filled the void of Ben's lack of authority. As an orphan myself, I can tell you we are drawn to strong father figures. 'Course, chasing after Gwen was a plus, as wellt:

Spoiler

Ben's lack of authority? Ben was the one who came down hard on Peter for his lack of responsibility. It was May who was less of a disciplinarian. Ben was not letting Peter off the hook for both his embarrassment of Flash and his failing to remember to pick up May...going so far as to yell at Pete and tell him his lesson of responsibility. It was Captain Stacy who hammered the point home that Pete was only acting selfishly...as a result, both lessons spurred him into becoming Spider-man.

And who wouldn't chase after Gwen? t:

 

[not_a_victim]

Spoiler

Ben's lack of authority? Ben was the one who came down hard on Peter for his lack of responsibility. It was May who was less of a disciplinarian. Ben was not letting Peter off the hook for both his embarrassment of Flash and his failing to remember to pick up May...going so far as to yell at Pete and tell him his lesson of responsibility. It was Captain Stacy who hammered the point home that Pete was only acting selfishly...as a result, both lessons spurred him into becoming Spider-man.

And who wouldn't chase after Gwen? t:

Spoiler

I don't see Ben as being either authoritarian or authoritative (there is a difference). If he had been either, Peter would not have been the slacker he was. I see him as being frustrated he can't get through to Peter, and that's what lead to his attempts to discipline him.

 

[Micromind]

Do we really need spoiler tags ? now that the movie is released over almost 80 % of the world (except maybe Norway.)

 

[Drummerdude7]

Do we really need spoiler tags ? now that the movie is released over almost 80 % of the world (except maybe Norway.)

I just do it as a courtesy, and some posters have personally requested it. I have no qualms with it either way.

 

[Eddie Brock]

Check it, no spoiler tags:

Uncle Ben dies.

Boom.

 

[Drummerdude7]

Check it, no spoiler tags:

Uncle Ben dies.

Boom.

0___o

You ruined everything.

 

[Eddie Brock]

0___o

You ruined everything.

Peter gets bitten by a spider. Peter and Gwen kiss. There's a final swing.

Mwahaha!

 

[Drummerdude7]

Peter gets bitten by a spider. Peter and Gwen kiss. There's a final swing.

Mwahaha!

*plugs ears*

lalalalalalala

Not listening!

*realizes plugging ears is useless on a message board*