Age of Ultron The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

[The Question]

he doesn't have a power though, not when it's possible for another human being to train and aquire at least one of those abilities.

No one can train to be able to do all of the things at once. His "power" is that he can do all of those things. No one can train to have his physical abilities. The can train to have one, but they can't train to have all of them. How is that not a super power?

It feels like a distinction without a difference to me.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I disagree. Maybe early 616 Steve, yeah, but the MCU Steve is different. He can do stuff a normal person couldn't train to do. He's closer to the Ultimates Cap than 616 in terms of power levels.

and again, i'd argue the same about

Widow, Nick Fury, Batman, (non powered) black cat, Elektra, and Hawkeye...

hell... even powered beings like Falcon and Daredevil and Xavier are not blessed with durability, strength, agility... all there fighting, agility, gymnastics (poor prof X) are all just trained and average in human abilities (in that context).

yet they still survive and live through things no "real world" human can

 

[Crimson King]

and again, i'd argue the same about

Widow, Nick Fury, Batman, (non powered) black cat, Elektra, and Hawkeye...

hell... even powered beings like Falcon and Daredevil and Xavier are not blessed with durability, strength, agility... all there fighting, agility, gymnastics (poor prof X) are all just trained and average in human abilities (in that context).

yet they still survive and live through things no "real world" human can

Prof X, Daredevil, and the rest aren't in the MCU, though, and that's what we're talking about. MCU Widow and Hawkeye were trained with their abilities. Same as Fury. None of them can touch what MCU Cap can do.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

No one can train to be able to do all of the things at once. His "power" is that he can do all of those things. No one can train to have his physical abilities. The can train to have one, but they can't train to have all of them. How is that not a super power?

It feels like a distinction without a difference to me.

to each there own, i wouldn't call it a power though. Super Human yes... but I don't think he has any "powers" no more than hawkeye has insanely good vision and coordination.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Prof X, Daredevil, and the rest aren't in the MCU, though, and that's what we're talking about. MCU Widow and Hawkeye were trained with their abilities. Same as Fury. None of them can touch what MCU Cap can do.

im talking about the characters in general.


also... please... Widow's jump up to a (and riding) on an alien hovercraft while Hawkeye is firing arrows left and right hitting all targets without even having to look at some, is alll FAR above real world human abilities. Just as fantastical and exaggerated as Cap's are in the MCU

they're skills are all exaggerated because it makes things more fun and interesting on screen

 

[The Question]

to each there own, i wouldn't call it a power though. Super Human yes... but I don't think he has any "powers" no more than hawkeye has insanely good vision and coordination.

What is your definition of a power? Why wouldn't you call having a physic that allows you to do something that isn't possible (being maxed out in all areas) a power?

 

[spideyboy_1111]

What is your definition of a power? Why wouldn't you call having a physic that allows you to do something that isn't possible (being maxed out in all areas) a power?

Super Power = Having an abilitiy that is un-natural and above human potential

cap's abilities arn't above human potential. they're peak human potential.

i don't necessarily consider Cap's abilities impossible to train for. he's not the only superhero in comics to have that skill set, and I think some one, some where could be born and train with peak human strength and agility, (which would then also help with there speed as well) I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility at all

the SSS is just highly coveted because it grants ANYONE peak human physic, it's a cheat sheet. And it will max you out in all aspects. When most people can't reach that level.

 

[The Question]

Super Power = Having an abilitiy that is un-natural and above human potential

cap's abilities arn't above human potential. they're peak human potential.

Having all of them at once is above human potential. The free-runner and the guy who can bench 1,200 pounds can't be the same guy because of the way bodies work. You have to sacrifice one for the other, there's no other way. Cap's body works better than most other people's, so he can be both of those guys plus a couple of other guys all at once. That is well beyond anybody regular human's potential to achieve through training.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

The thing about Cap as I've always understood it is that he's peak in everything. That is to say, people train their entire lives to achieve great strength, or run 100m sprints, or to break long jump records, what have you. But people only have the capacity to achieve perfection in one of those things in their lifetime, whereas Cap is naturally world class in every single one.

or... what Question said.

 

[Crimson King]

im talking about the characters in general.


also... please... Widow's jump up to a (and riding) on an alien hovercraft while Hawkeye is firing arrows left and right hitting all targets without even having to look at some, is alll FAR above real world human abilities. Just as fantastical and exaggerated as Cap's are in the MCU

they're skills are all exaggerated because it makes things more fun and interesting on screen

I'm not arguing that their on-screen abilities aren't totally realistic. What I'm saying is...

Well, what Question said.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

The thing about Cap as I've always understood it is that he's peak in everything. That is to say, people train their entire lives to achieve great strength, or run 100m sprints, or to break long jump records, what have you. But people only have the capacity to achieve perfection in one of those things in their lifetime, whereas Cap is naturally world class in every single one.

or... what Question said.

i just prefer to not say he has a super power. Super Human yes... Super Power no.

I think power's often insinuates that they can fly, shoot energy, change density, be invulnerable, etc...

being as strong as an olympic weight lifter, as fast as a sprinter, and as agile as a gymnist doesn't come off as a "POWER" to me.

Power's should be reserved to something beyond "peak human" imo

 

[Crimson King]

i just prefer to not say he has a super power. Super Human yes... Super Power no.

I think power's often insinuates that they can fly, shoot energy, change density, be invulnerable, etc...

being as strong as an olympic weight lifter, as fast as a sprinter, and as agile as a gymnist doesn't come off as a "POWER" to me.

Power's should be reserved to something beyond "peak human" imo

I think you're still stuck defining Cap by 616 standards. That's not MCU Cap. MCU Cap is more powerful, meaning he's reached levels where other humans can't train to match him in essentially any area.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I think you're still stuck defining Cap by 616 standards. That's not MCU Cap. MCU Cap is more powerful, meaning he's reached levels where other humans can't train to match him in essentially any area.

... i think they're synonymous and just as powerful as eachother. i don't see MCU cap doing anything 616 cap can't or hasn't done, especially when compared to the exaggerated (but still un-powered) movie widow and hawkeye

 

[Mightyally]

Science can lead to powers in the comics! Magic is in the comics just science we can´t understand so for the humans living during the roman empire, anabolic steroids would count as something that gave superhuman powers? This is one definition, that the science which we understand decide the human potential until we reach a limit where the very DNA must be altered to that not of a human sepcies in order to improve.

But we know so much more now than they did, that doesn´t apply now? Let me explain this.

When an individuals DNA is 100% human and he aquires powers that are unlike of others with human DNA, those powers shall never be considered as superhuman for within the human definition, our DNA, it is allowed to have these powers.

But what is human DNA? Every human needs to have certain things in common in their DNA to call themselves humans. Let´s say that´s 10 things. And sometimes it´s enough to just have 9 of them in combination and the 10th can differ. However that´s like having 1 more cromosome which still makes us human but it´s something defect so let´s ignore that.

So that´s the frame. Everything that occur within the 10 factor frame will be human. Since every human has an unique DNA because of science we don´t yet understand it´s only coincidence that some ppl are naturally good at sports or extremely smart. It´ stills natural tho, just outside our control. Therefore different ppl have different DNA stats. It we mastered the science I could compare my DNA with a female one and a computer could calculate how our baby would look like or if it gets cancer (provided that´s it´s not given cancer by the environment ->sun)

A superhuman would therefore have to aquire abilities impossible for the human DNA frame to produce. To know the maximum stats of a human is beyond our understanding. Maybe we have huge potential.

As long as we can´t determine the highest possible potential a human DNA can produce within each area we can´t decide if Cap is Superhuman or not.

 

[TheHeatKitchen]

Super Power = Having an abilitiy that is un-natural and above human potential

cap's abilities arn't above human potential. they're peak human potential.

i don't necessarily consider Cap's abilities impossible to train for. he's not the only superhero in comics to have that skill set, and I think some one, some where could be born and train with peak human strength and agility, (which would then also help with there speed as well) I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility at all

the SSS is just highly coveted because it grants ANYONE peak human physic, it's a cheat sheet. And it will max you out in all aspects. When most people can't reach that level.

In the Avengers, when he was searching the Helicarrier and found the HYDRA weapons, he jumped quite high with extreme ease. How high was that jump? I'm thinking about 8-10 feet, maybe? He didn't even try on that jump, almost like he just hopped up there like us average humans hop into a truck with a lift kit, or onto a high bed. Even the most athletic man on the planet couldn't imagine making that jump with that level of ease. That's not just peak human physique. That's something more. That's super-human.

I wouldn't categorize him as "super" necessarily, but he's not just a human a peak physique. He's the perfect human, +40-50% ability. If the perfect human has a 60" vertical jump, Rodgers can jump 84-90". Something like that.

 

[Mightyally]

Lol I just thought about something. It´s obvious spiderman is superior to cap in a lot of ways when it comes to power levels but In terms of regeneration and skin durability, who wins. Spidey or Cap?

 

[Rock Sexton]

In the Avengers, when he was searching the Helicarrier and found the HYDRA weapons, he jumped quite high with extreme ease. How high was that jump? I'm thinking about 8-10 feet, maybe? He didn't even try on that jump, almost like he just hopped up there like us average humans hop into a truck with a lift kit, or onto a high bed. Even the most athletic man on the planet couldn't imagine making that jump with that level of ease. That's not just peak human physique. That's something more. That's super-human.

I wouldn't categorize him as "super" necessarily, but he's not just a human a peak physique. He's the perfect human, +40-50% ability. If the perfect human has a 60" vertical jump, Rodgers can jump 84-90". Something like that.

Cap has one-armed launched guys from out of a tank in the MCU ..... I don't know any human who could ever achieve that even in the supposed "peak" condition.

I mean what are we talking about here? We have a guy who barely ages, regenerates faster, stronger than any human, not to mention faster. I think it would be getting into semantics saying he doesn't have special powers. I guess "abilities" might be the easier word to describe it though. Cap is near super-human.

 

[kosh33]

i agree.. cap is more any human.. also he has super memory capabilities.. definitely 'superhuman'

 

[Green Goblin]

I hope QS and SW are based on their 616 version...

 

[TheHeatKitchen]

Cap has one-armed launched guys from out of a tank in the MCU ..... I don't know any human who could ever achieve that even in the supposed "peak" condition.

I mean what are we talking about here? We have a guy who barely ages, regenerates faster, stronger than any human, not to mention faster. I think it would be getting into semantics saying he doesn't have special powers. I guess "abilities" might be the easier word to describe it though. Cap is near super-human.

I forgot all about that. I need to watch CATFA again soon.

I imagine it like this... Kal-El gets power from Earth's yellow sun. Now imagine we humans would get powers from Krypton's red sun.... It's like we are on Earth and Cap is halfway between the yellow and red suns.

 

[Mr. Dent]

I like Doctor Who's take on magic. It's another form of mathematics, but instead of using numbers it uses words.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I hope QS and SW are based on their 616 version...

Don't worry. Twincest isn't remotely a possibility.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Cap has one-armed launched guys from out of a tank in the MCU ..... I don't know any human who could ever achieve that even in the supposed "peak" condition.

I mean what are we talking about here? We have a guy who barely ages, regenerates faster, stronger than any human, not to mention faster. I think it would be getting into semantics saying he doesn't have special powers. I guess "abilities" might be the easier word to describe it though. Cap is near super-human.

He also punted a grown man something like 20+ feet.

 

[Ant-manic]

that used to happen to DJ Jazzy Jeff all the time.

 

[Xeno]

He also punted a grown man something like 20+ feet.

Cap can also run about 60 MPH in the comics, right? His muscles don't build up fatigue-causing toxins the way normal humans do so he can keep up a pace like that without tiring for quite a distance. He can't be poisoned (though he sometimes is due to severe PIS), his reflexes are faster than normal, his eyesight and hearing are also superhuman. He killed at least one Chitauri with a single punch, knocking its jaw clean off. The most impressive thing, for me, is that Captain America withstood a massive blow from Thor and walked away. The shield might have deflected a lot of the energy back at Thor, but Steve was still the one holding it. Everything we've seen of Captain America suggests that he's stronger than his comic book counterpart, who can only lift about 1,000 lbs., though nowhere near the level of Thor or even Iron Man in his armor.


In an interview Markus & McFeely said that they were considering having Steve become even more powerful as time went on, until he became definitively superhuman. I've never read that Feige or Whedon was onboard with that, however.