The Daily Planet - Superman News and Speculation Thread (🚨TAG SPOILERS🚨)

[GreenKToo]

If you besmirch Superman Blue one more time I will stab you with a Kryptonite Spear Snyder-style!!! :furious:

Just as long as you kiss me afterwards.......

 

[dhandler01]

I think that what is mostly associated with the Kingdom Come symbol is the black background as opposed to the shape of the “s”.

Besides, Kingdom Come is probably the greatest comic ever written. Superman in particular, is written with amazing depth. He retains his stallwart moral compass while simultaneously being conflicted and shown to wrestle with imperfections. It’s a perfect way to show a Superman who does have imperfections and conflicts, while still respecting his core and not making him a villain or just a jerk (which is what most writers do.)
I actually would put Kingdom Come into my all time top 5 pieces of literature.

so I don’t understand why this symbol would in any way ruin the movie or why (1) it is closely associated with Kingdom Come when it likely does not have the most striking differentiation that set the Kingdom Come symbol apart (the black background); or (2) why Kingdom Come would in any way carry a poor connotation when it is such a quality and classic story.

Yep. I said that before...the style is similar to KC but it is not in fact the KC shield. And I guarantee if the average schmo on the street saw me wearing the shield on a blue shirt they would know it is a Superman inspired shirt. What they likely wouldn't know is what the heck Kingdom Come is...so I am not really worried about it.

And I know this is where someone will say "but if you don't have buy in from the comic nerds it will never work" and ya know what...that is bull. I remember the panel when Routh unveiled the KC shield for the Crisis crossover and everyone went nuts. Then he didn't actually play KC Superman (he played a similar character but not the uber-mensch that KC Supes is) and no one cared. It is just a shield and as long as it is a recognizable Superman Shield the fans will be fine with it. Will a few be a bit overdramatic and super pedantic about it? Yep. Is that a very very very very very small fraction of the people who will see the film...absolutely!

And yes Kingdom Come is one of the best standalone stories I have ever read.

Funny story from my comic shop/card shop days. If you remember Heroclix we used to have tournies there. One time the Dark Phoenix Clix (which was massive and one of the most powerful Clix) was the prize. The guy who won wanted to play with it so my buddy busted out his KC Superman Clix and went head to head. Phoenix won, but it took a lot longer than it should of because of how overpowered KC Superman is. I never played Clix or enjoyed watching it but I watched that matchup like it was the friggin Super Bowl and my team was playing!

 

[WatchProtect]

I know it was posted previously but this is a perfect suit. I really don't think I'd change a thing about it.

 

[GreenKToo]

I think Gunn will embrace Superman's whole nature, ie, his moral compass, his boyscout attitude, and the aww shucks I was raised on a farm persona.

Snyder's biggest mistake imo, was he ran full speed from what most people like about superman, and he instead tried to make him dark and cool.

 

[GreenKToo]

Also, how powerful do we want this Superman to be?

Planet moving?
Or more on the lines of having his limit be lifting something like a cruise ship or aircraft carrier?
Maybe in-between, say a small moon?

 

[SupermansPal]

How is Superman inspiring wayward heroes a concerning form of “meta commentary?”

It sounds like Superman to me.

That it will spend more time saying “look guys Superman is still cool and relevant” instead of just telling a Superman story.

 

[WatchProtect]

Also, how powerful do we want this Superman to be?

Planet moving?
Or more on the lines of having his limit be lifting something like a cruise ship or aircraft carrier?
Maybe in-between, say a small moon?

I'm aware Superman went through a power level change around "Crisis"(?) I don't wanna say Id prefer a weak Superman, but I want his limits well defined. I want him to still struggle, still want him to show that's he's exerting effort.

 

[TheGDBatman]

IMHO, getting the emblem right is almost as important as the actual casting and characterization.

Gunn really made a stupid decision to go with a KC inspired symbol. If this is just a small preview of what the costumes will look liken under his direct supervision, then I don't see the DCU having a long life.

Wait, you're saying that the death knell of the DCU is....Superman's logo? A logo that is inspired from a costume in one of the greatest graphic novels of all time?

 

[Babillygunn]

Here’s the thing: Superman is cool and relevant because truth and Justice is cool and relevant. There is a reason why he is a timeless character. It’s because altruism is a timeless virtue.
I have never understood the idea that “Superman is too old fashioned” or that he’s not relevant to today’s society. No matter how cynical people may get, they still honor the ideals of self sacrifice and goodness. The concept of a person who possesses limitless strength and power who exercises limitless restraint, humility, and compassion is a very compelling threshold to build a character from. And it is a character that can be celebrated and embraced. Under no circumstances should we shy away from the core of what Superman is. And we certainly should not relegate him to being some generic sci-fi alien film character

 

[SwordOfMorning]

That it will spend more time saying “look guys Superman is still cool and relevant” instead of just telling a Superman story.

Yep. Here's the other thing: Kingdom Come gets a pass for me because it is amazing but stories of its ilk such as the vastly inferior What's So Funny about Truth Justice and the American Way drive me crazy because they are essentially the lamest flavour of fan fiction. They're not about anything that matters despite the aura they attempt to project, they're just writers defensively whining that they don't like edgy heroes (which is fair, although Truth and Justice's critique of The Authority is dumb as all hell - I say as someone who isn't a particularly huge Authority fan) and that the one they grew up with is better and more special and could totally beat them up if he wanted to you guys. It's coming out the gate screaming "SUPERMAN IS STILL RELEVANT YOU GUYS, DON'T YOU REMEMBER WHEN THE WORLD FELT NICER?! SUPERMAN REPRESENTS THAT!!".

 

[GreenKToo]

I'm aware Superman went through a power level change around "Crisis"(?) I don't wanna say Id prefer a weak Superman, but I want his limits well defined. I want him to still struggle, still want him to show that's he's exerting effort.

That's me. I think around 100,000 tons should be his limit. That's still extremely strong, but makes him somewhat grounded for other threats/villains.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

IMHO, getting the emblem right is almost as important as the actual casting and characterization.

Gunn really made a stupid decision to go with a KC inspired symbol. If this is just a small preview of what the costumes will look liken under his direct supervision, then I don't see the DCU having a long life.

I guarantee you that the design of the Superman symbol will not make one cent of a difference in the box office success of the DCU. Of all the things the GA sadly struggles with when it comes to Superman the design of the symbol probably won't even register. I also simply fail to see how the KC design as it compares to the classic S is any different than the symbol on Batman's chest having a myriad of different designs.

Plenty of concerns to be had about the DCU, I have been almost entirely cynical about this venture but the costumes are almost guaranteed to be stellar. Gunn's CBMs have consistently had top shelf costume design.

 

[Superark]

Gotta be honest, I'm starting to get attached to the notion of this updated KC symbol.

It's just so sleek and elegant, y'all!

While I'm still not a fan of the use of a KC symbol, it certainly looks better in 3D.

Fingers are crossed the KC logo is nothing more than an intentional misdirect.

 

[Chris B]

I'm cool with a Kingdom Come-inspired shield if that is really the direction Gunn is going in. Though I would hope they'd tweak it a little bit just to give it a somewhat more obvious 'S' silhouette in a similar vein to MAWTS.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

The MAWTS is nice but the more S like tweaks make it feel over designed to me. The KC symbol is cleaner. Trying to make it look more like an S feels like an unnecessary compromise. Just commit to it.

 

[BarryLyndon]

I see some people getting worried about the Authority and multiple other superheroes in the film.

But it makes sense in the way Gunn presented the DC universe.

The world already has had superheroes for a longtime, but with The Authority, the Guy Gardner Green lantern, metamorpho and surely more, it seems that the world is indeed full of bad ones or corrupt ones or even lost.

Superman slowly becoming the best of the bunch and having a better public relation will serve as a new example to follow. It makes sense that if Luthor has control over a bunch of the others he will feel threaten by Superman’s coming.

And the JL being created after makes only more sense as the world will need them to regain trust in superheroes, and have a team that only follows their own good agenda without the interference of the gouvernment.

Im sure character like Hawkgirl (who is young) will see superman as a new hope of the superhero era. Even Metamorpho could start as a bad guy used by Lex slowly realising he’s in the wrong camp.

It is called legacy (yes for his kryptonian heritage) but also so that Clark will leave a mark in the world which will lead to a better time.

For the KC logo, if its kryptonian and Lois (and people) sees an S and creates the Superman name, maybe Clark will create a more clear classic S as an hommage to people believing in him in the next film.

The movie should center for once around Clark and having a villain like Brainiac at the start may be too much and deviates from the main theme of the movie.

 

[Babillygunn]

Yep. Here's the other thing: Kingdom Come gets a pass for me because it is amazing but stories of its ilk such as the vastly inferior What's So Funny about Truth Justice and the American Way drive me crazy because they are essentially the lamest flavour of fan fiction. They're not about anything that matters despite the aura they attempt to project, they're just writers defensively whining that they don't like edgy heroes (which is fair, although Truth and Justice's critique of The Authority is dumb as all hell - I say as someone who isn't a particularly huge Authority fan) and that the one they grew up with is better and more special and could totally beat them up if he wanted to you guys. It's coming out the gate screaming "SUPERMAN IS STILL RELEVANT YOU GUYS, DON'T YOU REMEMBER WHEN THE WORLD FELT NICER?! SUPERMAN REPRESENTS THAT!!".

Interestingly enough, this is basically the underlying conflict in much superhero fare, live action and comics alike. Whether it is the Daredevil series, TDK trilogy, or virtually every Batman book out there, this is a large portion of conflict that is present in all of those stories. For some reason, with Superman, people seem to look at it differently and find his moral stance to be more “Boy Scout” while Daredevil and Batman are seen very differently, even though they abide by the same underlying code.

I wonder if that has to do with Superman’s inherent power being drastically different. Therefore for Superman, the struggle involves the spectrum of how much influence to wield. Ultimately, this question deals with the tension between allowing people the free choice to make decisions that result in pain and hurt inflicted on themselves and others versus wielding too much influence such that you cross the border into authoritarianism. That spectrum of apathy vs authoritarianism really is one of the most compelling aspects of Kingdom Come, if you ask me. And why I get frustrated when people refer to that story as simply being about “why superheroes shouldn’t kill.”

 

[hopefuldreamer]

It's interesting reading everyone thoughts on this stuff.

Personally I'm quite happy with those kind of 'meta' commentary style Superman stories, because I enjoy the way they centre Clark's approach as the superior one (because I think it is ).

And maybe I do feel like this movie pushing back on certain popular trends in superhero stories, will feel validating and reparative for me.

As long as there is also a great Superman story, with great Clois dynamics, great Clark/Lex antithesis highlighted, I don't mind a background of 'why is Superman important'.

 

[WatchProtect]

If it was honestly any other hero I'd agree the meta context would be wasted, but for Superman it just is him,

You're not making him some guy who thinks he's better and wants to make everyone feel bad for it. He just is better because he represents all the best qualities.

Superman has never needed modernized. Because every modern take just turns him evil. MAWS is the only legitimate modernization of the mythos that managed to create new takes on the characters without murdering or ruining what makes them, them.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Meta commentary is great but, again, I just think that particular flavour feels defensive and lame and ultimately meaningless. That way lies madness and insipid filth like Doomsday Clock (or most of Geoff Johns comics!)

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Meta commentary is great but, again, I just think that particular flavour feels defensive and lame and ultimately meaningless. That way lies madness and insipid filth like Doomsday Clock (or most of Geoff Johns comics!)

Maybe I still feel defensive

I dunno, I think there's a way that can come out badly, too 'on the nose' or preachy - and a way it can come off well, where the background of a world of superheroe struggles in some way mirrors the arc of the characters.

 

[Babillygunn]

Yeah. I think that altruistic Superman can be done right. Heck. I’ll go a step further: if it can’t be done right, then don’t do it. I don’t want another MoS.

And @SwordOfMorning I’m 100% with you on Doomsday Clock. But Geoff Johns did Infinite Crisis, Throne of Atlantis (actually an entire amazing Aquaman run), Sinestro Corps War, and the criminally underrated Forever Evil. So I have to defend the man’s honor despite a stinker here or there.

 

[flickchick85]

I have no strong stance on the meta-commentary topic, tbh.

I don’t mind it and can enjoy it when it’s done well. I also feel like it’s kind of inherently there in a lot of my fave Supes stories. BUT I also don’t need to see it at all to feel satisfied by the story they’re telling. The only way I’ll have a strong feeling about it is if it’s there and it’s clunky or too heavy-handed. I don’t want a preachy Supes movie. That’s one of the reasons I don’t love “What’s So Funny…” as much as others do. It crossed that line for me.

 

[Herolee10]

I get why you feel that way, I know it does hold some meaning... I think I'd just like to keep schrodinger's cat in the box as long as possible

The symbol & suit design COULD suck, in an otherwise incredible Superman movie. Or it could be the first red flag of a dissapointng one.

Also, just a reminder (for me too) that symbol has not been officially announced as being used on the suit... its feeling likely, but we don't yet know for sure.

Oh and hey Herolee! Long time no chat!

Hey HD! Yeah, it's been a while.

Whatever happens, I just hope that I can accept it for whatever it is with a calm attitude.

 

[Herolee10]

Well most recently:

Routh's version in Crisis was also a hybrid of Reeve's Superman and KC Supes, and he wore it. According to him, it symbolized “hope cutting through the darkness.”

More importantly, Kingdom Come as a story, and what it represents in the grander scheme of the DC Universe, is a return to form - a "back to why we do this" for superheroes at large, led by Superman - amidst a much more cynical superhero landscape than the one Supes created. IF Gunn is using this shield, I have to assume that's a big part of why he would do so.

Just out of curiosity, was KC included in the list of comic panels that was revealed to serve as inspirations for this film?