The Daily Planet - Superman News and Speculation Thread (🚨TAG SPOILERS🚨)

[DarthSkywalker]

And we're talking about a very very very specific version of Batman that was built through some very specific lens and was very carefully crafted in every single way. You're also talking about a version of the DC Universe that likewise seems to have already an extremely clear and planned idea of what it is going for and has already laid a lot of groundwork for what its history is supposed to be even before anything from it released.

It's not just any Batman/Superman crossover, it's one with two universes fundamentally incompatible with each other in which to do a crossover you'd have to waste a lot of time trying to rationalize the existence of Pattinson's Batman in the DCU (and the fact he'd be able to keep up with the other heroes at all) and where you'd probably have to scrap stuff like the Teen Titans movie.

Every version of Superman and Batman is very specific. That's the beauty of different writers.

 

[Invader Joker]

Every version of Superman and Batman is very specific. That's the beauty of different writers.

Yeah but every version of Batman and Superman that has crossovered at least has established they very clearly live in the same overall universe lol. Even something like the DCAU wasn't as big of a leap as people kinda make it out to be since the first episode literally had Batman fighting Man-Bat so it was well established as a world where crazy **** happens and it just escalated over the course of a hundred episodes.

‘The Batman’s Matt Reeves on Whether Superman Could Appear in a Sequel

"I mean, if something like that did happen, because I was very careful about ... To me, what I try to do is take ... I did this in the Apes films too, and even Cloverfield , this idea of taking the one fantastical element and then have everything around it, so it'll be as grounded as possible, so that it could feel ... I want it to feel emotionally real and to make everything feel very believable. In this movie, even further I think than what I did in those films, I tried to find the practical, believable version. If suddenly in the Batman world, you discovered that there was an alien that was Superman, there'd be a lot of shock. I mean, people would have to say, oh my God, and maybe that would be the one fantastical element."

Reeves said this was the only way a Superman could exist in his universe and I agree. It's also the opposite of the approach Gunn is taking.

 

[Lily Adler]

Ok but what if it was good though?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yeah but every version of Batman and Superman that has crossovered at least has established they very clearly live in the same overall universe lol. Even something like the DCAU wasn't as big of a leap as people kinda make it out to be since the first episode literally had Batman fighting Man-Bat so it was well established as a world where crazy **** happens and it just escalated over the course of a hundred episodes.

‘The Batman’s Matt Reeves on Whether Superman Could Appear in a Sequel

"I mean, if something like that did happen, because I was very careful about ... To me, what I try to do is take ... I did this in the Apes films too, and even Cloverfield , this idea of taking the one fantastical element and then have everything around it, so it'll be as grounded as possible, so that it could feel ... I want it to feel emotionally real and to make everything feel very believable. In this movie, even further I think than what I did in those films, I tried to find the practical, believable version. If suddenly in the Batman world, you discovered that there was an alien that was Superman, there'd be a lot of shock. I mean, people would have to say, oh my God, and maybe that would be the one fantastical element."

Reeves said this was the only way a Superman could exist in his universe and I agree. It's also the opposite of the approach Gunn is taking.

Thanks for posting a very clear example that it could work.

 

[Tra-El]

No...it would be awful.

The entire premise of the conversation of having The Batman shoehorn into the DCU is a waste of conversation oxygen lol. James Gunn will choose his own Batman and craft his Caped Crusader carefully to fit on top of the world he is working so hard to build. At this stage of the game, the entire idea of Pattinson's Batman and what Reeves has already established for that character is ancient in terms of the DCU kickoff.

The DCU Batman will be another feather in the cap for Gunn and Safran to announce. If Superman takes off and the success of Supergirl follows, in theory, the next Batman will be positioned in a sweet spot. The freshness could be a goldmine DC Studios is hoping to be sitting on when that time comes.

 

[Invader Joker]

Thanks for posting a very clear example that it could work.

How? The DCU is not a grounded world where everything is realistic except for Superman, it's very much the opposite and it's made a strong statement of being the opposite with the other heroes, its precursor being Creature Commandos, etc. It's the entirely opposite approach of the way Matt said that a Superman could work with his Batman.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

How? The DCU is not a grounded world where everything is realistic except for Superman, it's very much the opposite and it's made a strong statement of being the opposite with the other heroes, its precursor being Creature Commandos, etc. It's the entirely opposite approach of the way Matt said that a Superman could work with his Batman.

You mean an odd couple setup, where a being with no superpowers teams up with a super powered alien.

 

[Invader Joker]

You mean an odd couple setup, where a being with no superpowers teams up with a super powered alien.

But that is not what Matt said. And he isn't only referring to Batman there, he's referring to the world he built on The Batman. Realism was a ridiculously important thing for him on every single decision he made regarding that film. It cannot be overstated the degree to which it guided him.






The DCU on the other hand is priding itself on being an hyper fantastical world that has been fantastical for a long time. It goes beyond just an odd couple set-up. A crossover between these two specific incarnations would recontextualize every single thing about Matt's worldbuilding. Everything. It'd recontextualize his Gotham, his characters, the tech he established, certain story ideas and obviously Batman himself. It all would suddenly exist in a world where heroes exist and have existed for a long time—which I don't think works at all.

 

[Ultramankrypton]

The reasoning is Matt Reeves doesn't want to do it. He's the leading creative force. He knows best.

i agree that Reeves shouldn’t be “forced into” doing it but don’t you think that’s a bit selfish of him? Especially considering the state of DC brand right now.

There’s a reason why Gunn is trying to create a unified brand, because it’s a stronger media consolidation. Reeves is the outlier here and it sounds like Gunn WANTED to fold him in, originally, and had a plan for how it would work

I wouldn’t be surprised if Gunn wanted to use Dick Grayson as Robin initially before Reeves got in the way

 

[Tra-El]

You mean an odd couple setup, where a being with no superpowers teams up with a super powered alien.

I mean, if they really wanted to do it, there is always a way to muddy it up for no reason whatsoever and to do it just to do it. The Reevesverse's inevitable fate will end the same way Nolan's did: as a standalone finite universe that has a beginning, middle, and end, in the vein of a visionary director who wants to tell a specific story in a specific standalone corner of DC Films. If Gunn truly does respect his fellow compadres wishes, he would leave Reeves alone and allow him to end his vision on his terms. It also buys Gunn time to not have to worry about Batman at this very moment where he can sorely focus on his Superman first and foremost. By the time Reeves finishes his Elseworlds take, the second chapter of the DCU will be right around the corner where the timing would line up perfectly for a brand new Batman.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The entire premise of the conversation of having The Batman shoehorn into the DCU is a waste of conversation oxygen lol. James Gunn will choose his own Batman and craft his Caped Crusader carefully to fit on top of the world he is working so hard to build. At this stage of the game, the entire idea of Pattinson's Batman and what Reeves has already established for that character is ancient in terms of the DCU kickoff.

The DCU Batman will be another feather in the cap for Gunn and Safran to announce. If Superman takes off and the success of Supergirl follows, in theory, the next Batman will be positioned in a sweet spot. The freshness could be a goldmine DC Studios is hoping to be sitting on when that time comes.

Brave to think we're getting past Supergirl. One might even say bold.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I mean, if they really wanted to do it, there is always a way to muddy it up for no reason whatsoever and to do it just to do it. The Reevesverse's inevitable fate will end the same way Nolan's did: as a standalone finite universe that has a beginning, middle, and end, in the vein of a visionary director who wants to tell a specific story in a specific standalone corner of DC Films. If Gunn truly does respect his fellow compadres wishes, he would leave Reeves alone and allow him to end his vision on his terms. It also buys Gunn time to not have to worry about Batman at this very moment where he can sorely focus on his Superman first and foremost. By the time Reeves finishes his Elseworlds take, the second chapter of the DCU will be right around the corner where the timing would line up perfectly for a brand new Batman.

I think you missed the premise of the conversation. I don't want it to happen. But the idea that it's an inherently bad idea that couldn't possibly work out is just flat out wrong, and doesn't understand the very concept of Superman and Batman teaming up.

 

[Invader Joker]

i agree that Reeves shouldn’t be “forced into” doing it but don’t you think that’s a bit selfish of him? Especially considering the state of DC brand right now.

There’s a reason why Gunn is trying to create a unified brand, because it’s a stronger media consolidation. Reeves is the outlier here and it sounds like Gunn WANTED to fold him in, originally, and had a plan for how it would work

I wouldn’t be surprised if Gunn wanted to use Dick Grayson as Robin initially before Reeves got in the way

Why would you think he wanted to use Dick as Robin? Not only is Damian an extremely James Gunnian character, but also, starting off at Damian allows him way more story opportunities in terms that if he wants to do Bat-Family spin-offs and explore characters like Nightwing, Red Hood, etc he can just do them outright.

I also straight up don't understand the idea that the crossover would in any way benefit Gunn or the DCU. Benefit them how? If they wanted to do a JLI project they couldn't put Batman on it until Pattinson's Batman is ready for that, if they wanted to do a Teen Titans project they'd have to wait till Pattinson's Batman has a Robin and on top of that has a Robin that seems capable enough to go up against metahumans. In every single way I can think of it's also way more appealing of an idea to create his own Batman which he can do whatever he wants with.

 

[Lily Adler]

Brave to think we're getting past Supergirl.

 

[Snow Queen]

i agree that Reeves shouldn’t be “forced into” doing it but don’t you think that’s a bit selfish of him? Especially considering the state of DC brand right now.

There’s a reason why Gunn is trying to create a unified brand, because it’s a stronger media consolidation. Reeves is the outlier here and it sounds like Gunn WANTED to fold him in, originally, and had a plan for how it would work

I wouldn’t be surprised if Gunn wanted to use Dick Grayson as Robin initially before Reeves got in the way

Unified brand, state of the brand, media consolidation, why should that be put above a talented creative doing something they believe in? A brand is only as valuable as the storytelling it facilitates and Matt Reeves is a shining example of when it goes right.

 

[Invader Joker]

I mean, if they really wanted to do it, there is always a way to muddy it up for no reason whatsoever and to do it just to do it. The Reevesverse's inevitable fate will end the same way Nolan's did: as a standalone finite universe that has a beginning, middle, and end, in the vein of a visionary director who wants to tell a specific story in a specific standalone corner of DC Films. If Gunn truly does respect his fellow compadres wishes, he would leave Reeves alone and allow him to end his vision on his terms. It also buys Gunn time to not have to worry about Batman at this very moment where he can sorely focus on his Superman first and foremost. By the time Reeves finishes his Elseworlds take, the second chapter of the DCU will be right around the corner where the timing would line up perfectly for a brand new Batman.

Ah that's not what Gunn is doing either lmao He's said very definitively he's not gonna wait for Reeves to finish his take before he introduces his.

 

[Tra-El]

Brave to think we're getting past Supergirl.

Hypothetically speaking, of course. We're thinking way into the great beyond at this point lol. That's why I mentioned the DCU Batman being in a sweetspot, only in theory of Superman and Supergirl being a successful kickoff for the reboot. Longggg ways to go, especially the inevitability of another merger that is destined to happen.

 

[Ultramankrypton]

It's such a tough nut to crack and it kinda inherently fills the entire character of Pattinson's Batman and its Gotham with so many holes I really do think that no matter who'd write it you'd kinda be doomed from the get-go. It's not even trying to fit a round peg on a square hole; it's trying to build an igloo on the Sahara desert. The DCU is very clearly not designed for a Batman like Pattinson's, and Pattinson's Batman isn't designed from the DCU.



But it isn't just an aesthetic thing dude. It's the entire foundation of Reeves Batman. Every single decision he made regarding that film and Pattinson's character was viewed through those lens. Matt went on the record about it. Batman is supposed to be the one fantastical thing in a realistic universe; he even said the only way a Superman crossover could work is if Superman is presented as yet another fantastical thing surrounded by realism, which is very much not what James is doing. The foundation for the DCU is that it's a world where heroes have existed for a long time and where all sorts of crazy nonsense is already commonplace.

Batman’s world is “grounded”, that much is true, and was true, for the first 20 years of his history. Superman is not, and never has been.

And that’s why their crossover was awesome, because it’s two characters coming from two completely different tones, aesthetics, and themes. That’s the selling point. And there is no reason why Reeves’ Gotham couldn’t have taken place in that world. Those characters don’t have to be mentioned or influence the visual language of the film, for them to exist. This is how the comics have done things for nearly 100 years

The Batman was loved by fans and critics, and it would’ve been a perfect launchpad for the DCU. But now we’re gonna have two competing versions of the character, which is only going to add to the fatigue

 

[Alien Anal]

I am way to addicted to the process to have that kind of will power. I also don't know for sure whether spoilers really spoil anything for me, or whether the joy of increased hype and spinning theories is worth the trade off.

I think what does it for me is I start painting pictures in my head of what the film will feel like and then it doesn't meet that and I get lost. I usually associate smell and the weather and all my surroundings with the chasing film process and yeah it's weird.

 

[Invader Joker]

Unified brand, state of the brand, media consolidation, why should that be put above a talented creative doing something they believe in? A brand is only as valuable as the storytelling it facilitates and Matt Reeves is a shining example of when it goes right.

It's also a completely false benefit. I do not think that one can just take the work Matt did for granted. If it's given an unnatural continuation (as would suddenly retconning it into a DCU where all sorts of crazy sci fi and magic and whatever exists and has existed for a long time and where he'd have to go from 0 to 100 pretty fast to stand toe to toe with those other characters) I do think that it'd actually do more harm for both parties and ultimately result in no actual long term benefit at all.

 

[Tra-El]

Ah that's not what Gunn is doing either lmao He's said very definitively he's not gonna wait for Reeves to finish his take before he introduces his.

Well, that's even a clearer reason why the subject is all but moot. The two entities was always going to be separate no matter how fun the fan fic can be.

 

[DKDetective]

i agree that Reeves shouldn’t be “forced into” doing it but don’t you think that’s a bit selfish of him? Especially considering the state of DC brand right now.

There’s a reason why Gunn is trying to create a unified brand, because it’s a stronger media consolidation. Reeves is the outlier here and it sounds like Gunn WANTED to fold him in, originally, and had a plan for how it would work

I wouldn’t be surprised if Gunn wanted to use Dick Grayson as Robin initially before Reeves got in the way

Selfish, how? DC is in the state it is in on the big screen because a bunch of suits wanted that Avengers money and tried to force an ill-conceived cinematic universe. And the general audience if anything seems burnt out on the MCU schtick right now.

Unlike the MCU when it started, Warner Bros. has a full roster of A-list heroes who are strong enough to lead their own tentpole franchises. Warner Bros always has done best when it gives his heroes to auteurs to make strong independent film franchises: Donner, Burton, Nolan, Jenkins, Reeves, etc.

Gunn's idea of a consolidated cinematic version is old news and almost 20 years behind the times. This actually would have been the perfect opportunity to roll out more DC films in the Reeves mould.

 

[Invader Joker]

Batman’s world is “grounded”, that much is true, and was true, for the first 20 years of his history. Superman is not, and never has been.

Comic Batman literally fought vampires within the first 8 issues of his existence. Even that Batman established himself quickly as one that existed in a fantastical world, and it only escalated more after as soon as he got his own run.

 

[Babillygunn]

I've got an idea: maybe they should just let the incredibly talented director do what he wants instead of being forced to obey the constraints of some other guy's vision.

Thank you.
Again, I cannot wait for the whole shared universe gimmick to go the way of the dinosaurs.

 

[Invader Joker]

Selfish, how? DC is in the state it is in on the big screen because a bunch of suits wanted that Avengers money and tried to force cinematic universe. And the general audience if anything seems burnt out on the MCU schtick right now.

Unlike the MCU when it started Warner Bros. has a full roster of A-list heroes who are strong enough to lead their own tentpole franchises. Warner Bros always has done best when it gives his heroes to auteurs to make strong independent film franchises: Donner, Burton, Nolan, Jenkins, Reeves, etc.

Gunn's idea of a consolidated cinematic version is old news and almost 20 years behind the times. This actually would have been the perfect opportunity to roll out more DC films in the Reeves mould.

I kinda hate this argument because literally the only character this argument works for is Batman lol. Superman Returns was a disaster, as was Man of Steel underwhelming which was originally made with those lens. Wonder Woman 84 wouldn't suddenly be a better movie if it wasn't in a connected universe, and neither would stuff like Shazam Fury of the Gods.

It isn't "DC characters that have worked best in standalones", it's literally just Batman. Pretty much every other attempt at some sort of a standalone DC film that isn't Batman related over the past 30 years has been a disaster. Its track record with standalones might be even worse than with connected universe because at least during the connected universe era they had Wonder Woman and Aquaman.