The Daily Planet - Superman News and Speculation Thread (🚨TAG SPOILERS🚨)

[Deck Rickard]

Or maybe he's not dead at all!!

Just show that he landed safely on top of a barn and then died of a heart attack a couple years later.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I’m always shocked by how stupid it is.
I love MoS but I can definitely admit that it has flaws and that’s a big one
I get that they wanted to show Jonathan doing something heroic but my god..............they easily could’ve come up with something better.

For real. It makes Clark look like such a coward and an idiot. I have to hand it to Cavill and Costner; they sold that scene as best they could but it’s just painful to watch due to the writing.

 

[Chris B]

I remember this being a point of contention in the pre-SR days but what are everyone's thoughts on whether or not William's theme should be used in a hypothetical reboot?

If it were up to me I'd be inclined to bring it back. I don't think there is any other comic book movie theme that best captures the essence of its character and other reboots have reused the themes of their respective past incarnations.

 

[flickchick85]

Every time I hear Williams' theme played over modern Supes footage (be it Smallville or JL), it just feels awkward to me. It's an amazing piece of music, but a new take should have a new score written for its own sensibilities, imo.

 

[Sawyer]

New music. The new actor won’t be wearing Christopher Reeve’s suit, why should he be accompanied by a theme meant for that version of Superman?

 

[SupermanFan]

I’d be perfectly fine with the Williams Theme returning. For me it’s like the Bond theme and should be with the character. I think there’s a good chance it comes back.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

yeah I'm totally fine with both arguments. Zimmer's MOS theme is freaking awesome but at the end of the day when I think of Superman, I'll always hear the Williams theme in my head. Same for the Elfman Batman theme as well as shirley walker's BTAS stuff.

 

[Nardz937]

Do a new theme for a new iteration. Elfman didn't use Smithereens. Zimmer & Newton didn't use Elfman. Same for the Spider-Man's.

Zimmer's theme and entire score for MOS was incredible, even if the movie itself wasn't.

 

[SupermanFan]

yeah I'm totally fine with both arguments. Zimmer's MOS theme is freaking awesome but at the end of the day when I think of Superman, I'll always hear the Williams theme in my head. Same for the Elfman Batman theme as well as shirley walker's BTAS stuff.

I think general audiences expect to hear it too.

 

[flickchick85]

There's been plenty of Supes movies/media without it, so I kind of doubt everyone "expects" it at this point. As far as I'm concerned, a great Supes theme isn't hard to come by - not only did I love Zimmer's MoS theme, but I also loved Christopher Drake's beautiful All-Star Superman theme, Shirley Walker's for STAS and even Lois & Clark's theme. Even Arrowverse Supes has a good theme. Hell, I've also got a soft spot for the theme from the Fleischer cartoons. Supes is NOT like James Bond, who's basically had the same producers and theme for his media for 50+ years. Supes has had many iterations with many different themes, some of which were also quite successful and well-received. Williams' is certainly the most famous Superman theme, as it comes from the most successful piece of Superman media, but it's hardly the only one that works for the character.

 

[Jochimus]

Eh. New Superman, new theme.

 

[SupermanFan]

There's been plenty of Supes movies/media without it, so I kind of doubt everyone "expects" it at this point. As far as I'm concerned, a great Supes theme isn't hard to come by - not only did I love Zimmer's MoS theme, but I also loved Christopher Drake's beautiful All-Star Superman theme, Shirley Walker's for STAS and even Lois & Clark's theme. Even Arrowverse Supes has a good theme. Hell, I've also got a soft spot for the theme from the Fleischer cartoons. Supes is NOT like James Bond, who's basically had the same producers and theme for his media for 50+ years. Supes has had many iterations with many different themes, some of which were also quite successful and well-received. Williams' is certainly the most famous Superman theme, as it comes from the most successful piece of Superman media, but it's hardly the only one that works for the character.

I’m talking about the general audiences that don’t take in every bit of Superman media though. I have several friends who were surprised Man of Steel didn’t have the Williams Theme. As far as I’m concerned most of the GA expect to hear it. We’ll have to agree to disagree on this I guess.

 

[Vaibow]

I remember this being a point of contention in the pre-SR days but what are everyone's thoughts on whether or not William's theme should be used in a hypothetical reboot?

If it were up to me I'd be inclined to bring it back. I don't think there is any other comic book movie theme that best captures the essence of its character and other reboots have reused the themes of their respective past incarnations.

I have to agree... it's superman's theme. I think if a new movie captures that essence, that vibe... it's like when I watched Superman Returns, there were times it totally worked, there were also times where it felt shallow, simply because what I was watching, wasn't worthy.

Also, it's also so important to make it blend organically with the score.

Whilst there are some posters on here who are dead against it, I can appreciate their stance, but they do not represent the majority of the GA that studio's want to see bring in the money. A good score is a good score. If the scene is uplifting and beams superman, then the theme will work just as well.

MOS had a great theme too, which I was super suprised about and didn't miss the iconic score at all and would that theme even blend well with that specific soundtrack?

 

[Fincher]

Every time I hear Williams' theme played over modern Supes footage (be it Smallville or JL), it just feels awkward to me. It's an amazing piece of music, but a new take should have a new score written for its own sensibilities, imo.

Not that I'm arguing for the theme (I really don't need it), but it is an option to do a new arrangement rather than copy the music as is.

 

[TMP98]

Using Williams theme music would make no sense. Justice League using Elfman and Williams' superhero themes was such a bad idea, and Elfman's argument that there's only "one" superhero theme for both those characters was disingenuous at best.

 

[Vaibow]

But if they do that, then there is the issue of the events of the first film in 2013 as well as all the other events in the DCEU which did happen...so it isn't like you can ignore any of that

If it's a reboot, untied to the DCEU, then it doesn't matter.

The general audience have likely already ignored it. It's been eight years since MOS. The momentum for most of those storylines has already vanished. I prefer to move on with an established Superman but also free of any baggage from the events of the DCEU. It also allows the next director free rein and doesn't tie them down to any continuity they probably want no part of.

I would love the MOS cast to be present and invested. I like the way he was at the end, I wanted more of that. Now, the trouble is, a retcon of sorts, post JL will make watching BvS or JL seem even more of a drag "hey, in mos2 they seem so fun and joyful, in BvS he hates the world and it's gloomy".

I have an idea which I have pitched around here before and it think it could work. Complete a MOS trilogy. We already have MOS, so there for let's continue with it.

MOS2 - set weeks after MOS, the actors will all look the same. Start of with a cracking save/rescue - which then bleeds into the news - Lois narrating, we kinda see this film through her eyes. Similar to MOS where she did a few voice overs here and there. We can even start off with a new report - about metropolis rebuilding, the superman, although viewed suspiciously, is helping rebuild, he's there also rebuilding his trust, saving people, we get a nice montage and catch up of what happened with zod and since. Superman could be loved by the city... Lois and clark are dating, in love, it's cute, they have fun at work with no one knowing the secret, obviously.

Luthor Snr is a Bezos, Musk type character, trying to rebuild metropolis (played by 54 year old actor Billy Zane - don't care, he was made for this role and will play it well). He is corrupt as it comes, but plays the nice guy well. He is also involved in inter-gang. Lex is the sub plot. Buying up land on the cheap after destabilizing the area to increase rent and sell off etc - Clark and Lois are exposing him.

We see clark, happy in the city, we see bank raids, thwarted... trains stopped and cats plucked from trees. The third act, Luthor tries to dispose of Lois and clark, but one flaw... clark is a kryptonian. The consequence when clark saves the day!! leave town, never to come back.... or be exposed as the crook he is. Resulting in a shamed Luthor senior, sowing the seed for his son to have daddy issues.

It's a personal story, with excitement of superman being super, throughout, we see clark and Lois fighting for justice. The film ends with Lois and clark good, superman loved and everything restored and good. Ofcourse, it allows for a kid to resent the reason why his dead suddenly left town and BvS can be a semi sequel if you want too, but... it's a sequel to MOS first and foremost. Then.. I would have Superman appear in a cameo of say Shazam! or AM2 then iw Ould have MOS3 which is set after JL and is a standalone story in the sense it respects the past movies but doesn't need to reference them.

Clark and Lois are secure, happy, city life is good. DP doing well. it's 2022 or whatever and superman is established. Lois is higher up the field or even works for a rival paper. Who knows.

I would then have the arrival of aliens - but respectful, calm aliens, bringing a new era to the world, they asks superman to lead them on earth as they recognize his symbol... for, 18,000 years ago, a kryptonian female landed on earth. But used a scout ship to call for help, where 'primitive' aliens met her, used her advanced kryptonian tech to advance their nations and she was a god to them. There was a direct bloodline, where a new baby was born every 30 years from a cry chamber, a new princess. Her prophecy was to find a king and that, they assume is Clark.

A waging war, with their own species spills onto earth and superman has to save the day...

anyways, that then opens up new gods, hawkman etc.

I’m always shocked by how stupid it is.
I love MoS but I can definitely admit that it has flaws and that’s a big one
I get that they wanted to show Jonathan doing something heroic but my god..............they easily could’ve come up with something better.

It was so embarrassing - he stayed back for a dog, and then signalled to stay and be taken by a tornado, in front of what, 20 people?
I have watched it over and over, Clark had time to sprint down, jump the last several feet into his dad, pulling him behind the truck, then leap into the air, out and away - sure, debris would have cut him up, but he would have survived and nobody would have quite known what they saw and put ti down to divine intervention and just good luck,
"I saw the lad run over yonder, towards his dad, then like that, the wind took them both up and threw them over to the field, it was a miracle they survived". Or
"I saw it, he's a hero, he literally had super strength and jumped out the way, I cannot explain it - it's like adrenaline pumped him up".

 

[flickchick85]

I’m talking about the general audiences that don’t take in every bit of Superman media though. I have several friends who were surprised Man of Steel didn’t have the Williams Theme. As far as I’m concerned most of the GA expect to hear it. We’ll have to agree to disagree on this I guess.

I’ve seen Zimmer’s MoS theme played by marching bands at football games and people clapped for it. Lots of people loved that music, even those like me who didn’t love the film itself. There’s another segment of the population who grew up on Smallville and associate that “Save Me” song with Supes more than Williams’ theme. Not to mention how popular the cartoon was in the 90’s. So I honestly believe most of the public is aware that Supes has multiple themes out there and would be perfectly accepting of a new one. I mean, Supes has been in 2 recent major blockbusters that didn’t use it, and I don’t think the general public came out of those feeling like the lack of Williams music was the problem, lol.

 

[SupermanFan]

I’ve seen Zimmer’s MoS theme played by marching bands at football games and people clapped for it. Lots of people loved that music, even those like me who didn’t love the film itself. There’s another segment of the population who grew up on Smallville and associate that “Save Me” song with Supes more than Williams’ theme. Not to mention how popular the cartoon was in the 90’s. So I honestly believe most of the public is aware that Supes has multiple themes out there and would be perfectly accepting of a new one. I mean, Supes has been in 2 recent major blockbusters that didn’t use it, and I don’t think the general public came out of those feeling like the lack of Williams music was the problem, lol.

But let’s remember those films weren’t well received and garnered a mixed reaction. I’m not saying the lack of sense the Williams Theme was THE problem either just saying for a lot of the general audience expected it & it contributed to the problems.

Also Smallville still used the theme at various times. So even with Save Me been its main theme it still had that score in several episodes including in it’s final moments.

I love the MOS theme and that entire score myself but I definitely think people expect to hear the Williams Theme with Superman. As I said previously we’ll just have to agree to disagree on that.

 

[Tg11]

If it's a reboot, untied to the DCEU, then it doesn't matter.



I would love the MOS cast to be present and invested. I like the way he was at the end, I wanted more of that. Now, the trouble is, a retcon of sorts, post JL will make watching BvS or JL seem even more of a drag "hey, in mos2 they seem so fun and joyful, in BvS he hates the world and it's gloomy".

I have an idea which I have pitched around here before and it think it could work. Complete a MOS trilogy. We already have MOS, so there for let's continue with it.

MOS2 - set weeks after MOS, the actors will all look the same. Start of with a cracking save/rescue - which then bleeds into the news - Lois narrating, we kinda see this film through her eyes. Similar to MOS where she did a few voice overs here and there. We can even start off with a new report - about metropolis rebuilding, the superman, although viewed suspiciously, is helping rebuild, he's there also rebuilding his trust, saving people, we get a nice montage and catch up of what happened with zod and since. Superman could be loved by the city... Lois and clark are dating, in love, it's cute, they have fun at work with no one knowing the secret, obviously.

Luthor Snr is a Bezos, Musk type character, trying to rebuild metropolis (played by 54 year old actor Billy Zane - don't care, he was made for this role and will play it well). He is corrupt as it comes, but plays the nice guy well. He is also involved in inter-gang. Lex is the sub plot. Buying up land on the cheap after destabilizing the area to increase rent and sell off etc - Clark and Lois are exposing him.

We see clark, happy in the city, we see bank raids, thwarted... trains stopped and cats plucked from trees. The third act, Luthor tries to dispose of Lois and clark, but one flaw... clark is a kryptonian. The consequence when clark saves the day!! leave town, never to come back.... or be exposed as the crook he is. Resulting in a shamed Luthor senior, sowing the seed for his son to have daddy issues.

It's a personal story, with excitement of superman being super, throughout, we see clark and Lois fighting for justice. The film ends with Lois and clark good, superman loved and everything restored and good. Ofcourse, it allows for a kid to resent the reason why his dead suddenly left town and BvS can be a semi sequel if you want too, but... it's a sequel to MOS first and foremost. Then.. I would have Superman appear in a cameo of say Shazam! or AM2 then iw Ould have MOS3 which is set after JL and is a standalone story in the sense it respects the past movies but doesn't need to reference them.

Clark and Lois are secure, happy, city life is good. DP doing well. it's 2022 or whatever and superman is established. Lois is higher up the field or even works for a rival paper. Who knows.

I would then have the arrival of aliens - but respectful, calm aliens, bringing a new era to the world, they asks superman to lead them on earth as they recognize his symbol... for, 18,000 years ago, a kryptonian female landed on earth. But used a scout ship to call for help, where 'primitive' aliens met her, used her advanced kryptonian tech to advance their nations and she was a god to them. There was a direct bloodline, where a new baby was born every 30 years from a cry chamber, a new princess. Her prophecy was to find a king and that, they assume is Clark.

A waging war, with their own species spills onto earth and superman has to save the day...

anyways, that then opens up new gods, hawkman etc.




It was so embarrassing - he stayed back for a dog, and then signalled to stay and be taken by a tornado, in front of what, 20 people?
I have watched it over and over, Clark had time to sprint down, jump the last several feet into his dad, pulling him behind the truck, then leap into the air, out and away - sure, debris would have cut him up, but he would have survived and nobody would have quite known what they saw and put ti down to divine intervention and just good luck,
"I saw the lad run over yonder, towards his dad, then like that, the wind took them both up and threw them over to the field, it was a miracle they survived". Or
"I saw it, he's a hero, he literally had super strength and jumped out the way, I cannot explain it - it's like adrenaline pumped him up".

Your pitch makes for a great MOS sequel

 

[flickchick85]

Yeah sorry, I’ll never believe the lack of Williams’ music was considered one of the problems with MoS by the public. I have literally never gotten that impression from anyone else who didn’t love the film. I think most would agree that music would’ve felt wildly out of place in that film. There’s a whole generation out there who hasn’t even seen the Reeve/Donner films and/or think they’re lame/cheesy anyway, and the music would certainly be a part of that. My younger brother’s never seen it and has no interest (he’s not into movies pre-1990 in general lol), but he’s into writing music, so one time when I played him that Williams theme, his reaction was “eh, sounds like Star Wars.” If trying to make a film that’s NOT beholden to the Reeve/Donner version, then the music is a part of that you should leave behind, imo. In my experience, people in the GA aren’t nearly as attached to that theme as some are suggesting, and other Supes themes have already been successful enough for people not to expect it.

 

[SupermanFan]

Thing is I’m not saying it would have fit that film. I’m saying going in I think general audiences would have expected the film to have the Williams theme. I honestly think the GA expects it in the movies.

 

[flickchick85]

Well like you say, we’ll just have to agree to disagree there because I don’t find that to be the case AT ALL. Especially not in a post-Snyder DC world. Superman moved on from that theme/style a long time ago, and whenever they try to bring it back (as in Smallville or JL), the results have just been...sad and awkward.

 

[Sawyer]

Okay, just to put this to bed: There’s no one expecting the Williams theme to be used in the context of the “main theme”. A handful of people might WANT the theme... but a want is not an expectation.

 

[Vaibow]

Yeah sorry, I’ll never believe the lack of Williams’ music was considered one of the problems with MoS by the public. I have literally never gotten that impression from anyone else who didn’t love the film. I think most would agree that music would’ve felt wildly out of place in that film. There’s a whole generation out there who hasn’t even seen the Reeve/Donner films and/or think they’re lame/cheesy anyway, and the music would certainly be a part of that. My younger brother’s never seen it and has no interest (he’s not into movies pre-1990 in general lol), but he’s into writing music, so one time when I played him that Williams theme, his reaction was “eh, sounds like Star Wars.” If trying to make a film that’s NOT beholden to the Reeve/Donner version, then the music is a part of that you should leave behind, imo. In my experience, people in the GA aren’t nearly as attached to that theme as some are suggesting, and other Supes themes have already been successful enough for people not to expect it.

Who is saying that?

Trouble is, you use a younger person as an example, the they dob't care - but use a younger person who has seen the film and the magic of "who's got you!" then they will want the score or at least respect it.

You think the theme is beholden to Reeve and Donner, a lot fo us, as stated have just said it is a 'superman' theme. And a lot of us have said, the theme tune will have to organically fit as it would indeed seem out of place. Just feels like you don't want it, that's cool but you don't need to justify why. It's more down to us to justify why it should....

 

[flickchick85]

Who is saying that?

It seemed to me SuperRouth was suggesting that. If not, my bad.

Trouble is, you use a younger person as an example, the they dob't care - but use a younger person who has seen the film and the magic of "who's got you!" then they will want the score or at least respect it.

You think the theme is beholden to Reeve and Donner, a lot fo us, as stated have just said it is a 'superman' theme. And a lot of us have said, the theme tune will have to organically fit as it would indeed seem out of place. Just feels like you don't want it, that's cool but you don't need to justify why. It's more down to us to justify why it should....

The GA is made up of people of all ages, and that "younger person" I used as an example is only a year and a half younger than me, lol. The age is irrelevant - he's part of the GA. I can guarantee you my mom ain't checking for the Williams theme either, and she's very much a casual fan of superhero movies. I think the only people who really care about the Williams Superman theme are Superman fans and therefore already know other Superman themes that have worked. The GA don't care either way, imo.

And for the record, I respect the theme - I think it's absolutely wonderful, actually. It's just not remotely necessary for every iteration of Superman, imo, and for a fresh take on Supes, I think looking back to channel Donner nostalgia again would be the same exact wrong move it was back in 2006.