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The Dark Knight Rises The Dark Knight Rises Info Hunters Thread Rises

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How can you call him amazing by your standards? He was the closest thing to what you were just complaining about! He was more a 'Joker clone' than any other example I can think of.

Yes. I am completely fine with Gorshin's take working into a campy 60s serial. As I said I do not dislike the character, I just dislike Riddler for this film series following Joker.

I disagree, strongly. I truly fail to see how the sort of obstacles he would provide would lack severity. On the contrary.

So what obstacles do you see happening that aren't cartoonish?

I don't think it's very hard to imagine. The Moriarty angle, as someone else said, is the obvious course - and there's not a thing wrong with it. Batman being Holmes, naturally. The Riddler has an impressive talent, one with the potential to be far more staggering than anything we've seen before. The blueprints are there.

The Moriarty angle means Riddler being Batman's equal or superior in intelect and thats fine. But what then? I hear you saying staggering, but nothing screams original so far. So what does that mean in your view?
 
How likely is it we'll get any news in december? Someone said hollywood basically shuts down, but spider-man starts filming next week.
 
I have no idea if this site is reliable...showbiz spy had this to say:

Heath Ledger to feature in new Batman movie?

HEATH Ledger might be making another movie — despite being dead.
Sources say Inception director Christopher Nolan is planning to use unseen footage from Ledger’s Dark Knight performance as the Joker in his upcoming Dark Knight Rises.
Ledger died back in 2008 after an accidental drugs overdose. He was 28.
“The idea is to use these fragments of cut scenes and use CGI to have The Joker appear one last time,” reveals a movie insider.
“Chris wants some continuity between movies and for the franchise to pay tribute to Heath and his portrayal of the Joker.
“It would only be a fleeting moment in the movie and would only be included with the full consent of Heath’s family.”

showbizspy.com (You have to scroll down past the a few news stories to find it)
 
It's always a possibilty... but i just refuse to believe it at this point in the game.
 
I completely agree. The Joker came off more like The Riddler on more than one ocassion in TDK, and I can't imagine revisiting something like that. "Batman, choose between these two horrible scenarios, but be careful, because I'm probably trying to trick you." Been there, done that.

The Joker creating moral dilemmas for Batman is far different from him creating intellectual challenges and puzzles for him to unravel. How you confuse sadism and anarchy with the Riddler's behavior is beyond me. They're polar opposites.

Not only that, but who says that all Riddler is capable of is making Batman choose between two horrible scenarios?

Okay, so what sort of obstacles are we talking about, because I'm not seeing them in my head, and how do they work in Nolan's universe?

Riddles. The Riddler.. he uses riddles. :doh:

How does that not work in Nolan's universe?

No doubt, it's a battle of wits, for sure. But he's still a smaller scale villain, at least in my eyes.

'Scale' is a matter of writing. He can be as big or small as Nolan wants him to be (see Scarecrow or Two-Face). Thing is, he has the potential to be very big, even though he commonly isn't. I don't see how that potential is missable, especially once the name 'Moriarty' is mentioned.

Outside of a more serious personality than the Joker, can't you see even in the slightest that Riddler setting up obstacles, would still be kinda like what Joker does in TDK setting up certain scenarios for Batman to overcome or try to overcome? It's repetative.

Any villain with an interest in directly challenging the hero is going to do that, Lung. Welcome to comics, welcome to superhero films. I could rattle off a number of characters that do it. It's a matter of how and why they go about it that makes it compelling. This sort of thing, I thought, was common sense for fans.

I am not being insulting. I'm just calling it like I see it in my eyes of why Riddler would still feel like dipping your feet in the same water.

You're generalizing him to do so, and that is insulting, whether you intend the effect or not.

The details might be different, but there still similar enough in concept in the broad stroke of things to make it feel like retreading the same ground covered in TDK.

So I guess putting Venom in a Spider-man movie is pointless if they've already done Green Goblin because both characters antagonize the hero with hard choices and set up traps for them. :o

I can see why Nolan chose to go in another direction.

I'll reserve comment on that until I see which direction he went in exactly.

Listen. I am not attacking you personally. That's my reaction or response to those characters and how I see them working (or not working I should say) in Nolan's universe. I am not being insulting.

I don't care whether you're trying to attack anyone personally or not, your angling is simply insulting. I just find it ironic that you expect to be heard out about the characters you want to promote when you brazenly generalize Riddler as a 'Joker clone' and say that Bane's only worthwhile quality is that he broke Batman's back once.

You're misrepresenting them and demeaning them.

So what obstacles do you see happening that aren't cartoonish?

Out of curiousity, I'd just like to take a second to ask you why you replied to the same post twice, but differently.

Secondly, why do you expect me to just whip up some brilliant bit of writing for a riddle scenario? Do you figure me to be a film writer? What's so hard about using your imagination on a very basic level to figure out that Riddler could have some pretty crazy riddles and such for Batman? Look at Nolan's other work, he's great at creating braintwisty, layered stuff. And none of it is 'cartoonish'. (I fail to see why you're even using that word in relation to a Nolan conceived Riddler. Truly baffling.) Riddler's a perfect fit for his style, his context of Batman.

The Moriarty angle means Riddler being Batman's equal or superior in intelect and thats fine. But what then?

What do you mean 'what then'? :dry: Then they use that as a rough guideline for how to write the character in the film. Obviously.

I hear you saying staggering, but nothing screams original so far. So what does that mean in your view?

I don't even properly understand what you're saying here. This is phrased weirdly.

Gathering that you're asking what I mean by 'staggering', does Moriarty not stagger Holmes? Is the reader not impressed by their quarrel? It's legendary. Surely Nolan can find a way to be original with it, just as he did with Joker. That bit should be the most obvious of all.

Branching from that thought about originality, I'm going to go ahead and assume from your responses that you're saying that you need the entire movie spelled out for you to understand why Riddler has potential. Not sure why you think I'm a writer or something, or why you have so much trouble with the word 'potential', much less do I understand why that's necessary to get the point across.

I also don't see why you keep generalizing him as only being capable of doing cartoony things. I'm gonna straight up tell you that that's stupid. Are you saying this because he was a loopy nutball in the 60's show? Or because he starred in a cartoon? (Even so, you'd be ignoring how he had some perfectly serious stories in that cartoon.) Please, do explain this.
 
I have no idea if this site is reliable...showbiz spy had this to say:



showbizspy.com (You have to scroll down past the a few news stories to find it)
I don't really believe any of that simply because Nolan said himself Joker wouldn't be in this one...While things could change or be reconsidered, I don't think it'll happen.
 
I have no idea if this site is reliable...showbiz spy had this to say:
Heath Ledger to feature in new Batman movie?

HEATH Ledger might be making another movie — despite being dead.
Sources say Inception director Christopher Nolan is planning to use unseen footage from Ledger’s Dark Knight performance as the Joker in his upcoming Dark Knight Rises.
Ledger died back in 2008 after an accidental drugs overdose. He was 28.
“The idea is to use these fragments of cut scenes and use CGI to have The Joker appear one last time,” reveals a movie insider.
“Chris wants some continuity between movies and for the franchise to pay tribute to Heath and his portrayal of the Joker.
“It would only be a fleeting moment in the movie and would only be included with the full consent of Heath’s family.”


showbizspy.com (You have to scroll down past the a few news stories to find it)

Interesting... but Nolan has already said "no" to The Joker.
http://www.obsessedwithfilm.com/movie-news/batman-3-the-joker-will-not-feature-says-chris-nolan.php

Perhaps he meant "no recasting"? Do you guys think I should post this to Batman-News.com for discussion, or just leave it off completely? I actually like this idea, but it's hard for me to believe Nolan will do it.
 
Don't post it, is my suggestion. It's one think to post a rumor from a source you trust, but this... I say you shouldn't.
 
Yeah I think you're right. If my competition reports on it I'll throw in my 2 cents, but I don't think this rumor deserves any attention right now...
 
Started a new thread on that Showbiz artticle not realizing there was a full on discussion about it one this thread!
 
Comicbook movie is also reporting. Of course this site also sucks.

http://www.**************.com/fansites/GulfCoastAvengers/news/?a=25833
 
i'm sure there are some unused footage of Heath, but i doubt Nolan would use it as cool it may seem. however, there possibly could be a few nods/mentions to him.
 
i'm sure there are some unused footage of Heath, but i doubt Nolan would use it as cool it may seem. however, there possibly could be a few nods/mentions to him.

It could be definitely be done but its been said that Nolan stated that the Joker is not going to be in this movie. If so they either he is telling the truth or he is a liar. I'll assume he is telling the truth and that his comments are valid.

Does anyone have a link to Nolan's comments?
 
The whole 'it's what Chris would want' line is a giveaway: another BS rumour designed to get webpage hits.
 
Well, that shuts down that rumor. Moving on...

To play devil's advocate...maybe Nolan was saying "no" to recasting The Joker.

Whether we see him on screen or not, I hope The Joker is at least mentioned in TDKR.
 
To play devil's advocate...maybe Nolan was saying "no" to recasting The Joker.

Whether we see him on screen or not, I hope The Joker is at least mentioned in TDKR.

I thought that at first too but when asked if the character was returning and possibily recast he said no.


Could it possibly be a returning (and recast) Joker, pulling strings from Arkham, Lecter-style, Empire wonders?

“No”, says Nolan emphatically and unhesitatingly. He resists elaborating simply because, quite understandably, he says, “I just don’t feel comfortable talking about it”.



source: http://www.obsessedwithfilm.com/mov...ot-feature-says-chris-nolan.php#ixzz16mnYSWUC


I would be a little surprised if they didn't acknowledge the Joker in the next movie.
 
Add another rumor to the BS pile.

The Joker did too much in TDK not to be referenced in TDKR. Which I think will happen anyway.
 
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