The Dark Knight Rises The Dark Knight Sequel Info Hunters

[returntovoid]

I think the romance in BB and TDK is one of the better written I've seen in the superhero genre and in the action/adventure genre in general. It actually IS complicated., as opposed the love interest being a b**ch and making things difficult for the hero.

I think the romance in Batman Returns is far better, very complex.

 

[Gianakin_]

I think the romance in Batman Returns is far better, very complex.

I don't know why you had to bring BR up, but of course it is, it's Catwoman we're talking about. Also, that's why I said "one of the better" and not "the best".

 

[Seen]

One of my favorite scenes in any Batman movie is when Bruce and Selina both discover each other's identities in Batman Returns. "Does this mean we have to start fighting now?" A really great, subtle, poignant moment.

 

[Fenrir]

We've had this debate on women before. I won't get back into it, but suffice it to say Nolan writes and directs films about emotionally messed up men. That's the consistent thread present in all his films and if that results in a gender gap then so be it. Perhaps it should bother me, but it doesn't.

Furthermore, I think there's a lot of silly generalizations being made about the way Nolan portrays women in his films. Take hegele's post for example:

Mememto:
Carrie Anne Moss- exposition sound piece on Guy's condition.
The Wife- idea of love told to us, but never shown. she dies. man angry.

I think everyone can agree that Natalie was more than simple exposition sound piece on Guy's condition. She uses Leonard for her own ends one moment and then falls for him the next.

As for the wife, 'the idea of love told to us but never shown'...come again? You must have missed the scenes in which Leonard gets a prostitute to roleplay the last memory of his wife and burns her things so that he can purge himself of his own memories of her, which were, due to Leonard's condition, just as fresh then as when she was murdered. And I'm sorry, but Leonard puts himself through all that he did only because he wanted to avenge his wife. If that isn't a blatant sign of his intense love for her, then please, by all mean, tell us what is.

Insomia:
Hillary Swank- an exposition sound piece on how cool Pacino was back in the day.

Really? Because in the film I saw, she was the second major threat to the main character. Of course, she idolized Dormer, but the conflict in her character was that her sense of duty was now forcing her to suspect and implicate the very man she looked up to all these years. That's a lot more than mere exposition.

Batman Begins:
Katie Holmes- exposition sound piece on justice and how cool bruce's parents were.

OK, you got me here. Even though I don't agree with your assessment of her character, Rachel Dawes (in BB) deserves all the flak she can get.

The Presitige:
Jackman's wife- idea of love for Hugh, told but never shown. she dies. man angry.

He loved her, as evidence by the scene in which he is trying to drown himself over losing his wife. But his obsession with one-upping Borden was greater.

Bale's wife- the closest thing to a fully realized woman in a Nolan film... alas... she dies. man angry.

When was Borden angry over his wife's death? Fallon was the one responsible for Sarah hanging herself, and it was only during Fallon's confession before his own hanging did Borden find out about it. But Borden was never shown to be angry with Fallon or Angier or anyone for that matter. Borden knew well that her death was a consequence of living a half life with his twin brother and not sharing his secrets with his own wife.

The Dark Knight:
Maggie G- she dies. Both men angry.

Correction. One man angry. The back-to-back scenes of Bruce's and Harvey's reactions to Rachel's death was meant to highlight this very difference. Rachel's death strengthened Bruce's resolve to take down the Joker. Harvey, on the other hand, snapped.

Inception:
Juno- exposition sound piece on what the hell is going on. nothing more.
Marie Coltiard- idea of love for Leo, told but never shown. she dies. man angry.

Page's character of course had little more to do other than exposition, yes, but Marion? "Idea of love for Leo told but never shown"? I'm not going to bother mentioning examples from the film (because there are too many and I've already said enough) but instead, please, do enlighten us on how exactly is love supposed to be 'shown' in films. Perhaps you want to see them making out in steamy sex scenes? Or maybe the filmmaker should show us elaborate song-and-dance routines ala Bollywood?

 

[bane]

Mememto:
Carrie Anne Moss- exposition sound piece on Guy's condition.
The Wife- idea of love told to us, but never shown. she dies. man angry.

Insomia:
Hillary Swank- an exposition sound piece on how cool Pacino was back in the day.

Batman Begins:
Katie Holmes- exposition sound piece on justice and how cool bruce's parents were.

The Presitige:
Jackman's wife- idea of love for Hugh, told but never shown. she dies. man angry.
Scarlett Johnanson- exposition sound piece on how both male protagonists have changed along the way.
Bale's wife- the closest thing to a fully realized woman in a Nolan film... alas... she dies. man angry.

The Dark Knight:
Maggie G- she dies. Both men angry.

Inception:
Juno- exposition sound piece on what the hell is going on. nothing more.
Marie Coltiard- idea of love for Leo, told but never shown. she dies. man angry.

So true!

 

[hatebox]

I visitied Jett's forums a couple of days ago, and he seems more sure than usual that filming in New Orleans will be minimal, if not completely non-existent. Apparently WB is pushing to film in the city thanks to tax breaks, but Nolan and Phister would prefer to remain in London for scenes not shot in Chicago.

This tweet appears to back that up, but since it's Jett who knows.

http://***********/TheWrap/status/2964394413662208

 

[regwec]

No, RDJ's charisma pulled the role off but I heard a few duff notes in his Sherlock. Better than most accent attempts, admittedly.

Where? I am a British English speaker, and my accent is pretty squarely RP, the same as RDJ's in that movie. I didn't find anything out of place in it.

 

[terry78]

Where? I am a British English speaker, and my accent is pretty squarely RP, the same as RDJ's in that movie. I didn't find anything out of place in it.

I honestly think some people that know an American is attempting to do a different accent automatically try to find fault. Go figure.

 

[hatebox]

I'm English too. I've only seen the film once and couldn't quote specific lines, but still heard enough for it to be one notch below flawless. Perhaps we can both agree on his accent being 'very good'?

There might be a psychological aspect to it where prior knowledge of the actor's nationality plays a part, but in an enjoyably trashy film like that it's not something that would bother me either way really.

 

[The Guard]

And as far as Nolan's women are concerned, I don't get the problem. Most of his characters are usually symbols or themes and not actual characters. That's his writing style. Women are no different. The guy's movies are mostly plot and not character based.

True.

 

[The Guard]

There's really no reason that Catwoman couldn't work well in one film, provided the proper themes are utilized. If she wasn't going to be used in BATMAN BEGINS, then the third Batman film seems the ideal time to include her. I don't agree that Catwoman and Talia are interchangeable in the least. Maybe as love interests who Bruce can't or won't be with for a particular reason.

 

[The Demon's Head]

Am I in denial if I still think Bane might have a shot at being the movie's main villain?

 

[Solidus]

No, I don't think it's a stretch. Knightfall is a good basis for a third. I would not fully rule it out.

 

[ilovelamp18]

Am I in denial if I still think Bane might have a shot at being the movie's main villain?

I don't know about main villain. Who were you thinking? Hardy?

 

[Travesty]

I mean they had not seen each other in years, and he comes back to Gotham, and doesn't even tell her, and then all of a sudden they're in love? Came completely out of left field at the end of Begins.

In love? They weren't "in love" at the end of Begins. They both love each other, cause they've known each other their whole lives, but I don't think Rachel was ever in love with Bruce, but she does love him as a friend. She just let him off gently, so they could continue to be friends. As for Bruce, well, that's a different story.

 

[The Joker]

In love? They weren't "in love" at the end of Begins. They both love each other, cause they've known each other their whole lives, but I don't think Rachel was ever in love with Bruce, but she does love him as a friend. She just let him off gently, so they could continue to be friends. As for Bruce, well, that's a different story.

Yes, they were most definitely in love. She kisses him romantically, tells him he's the man she loves. That's why she says that the man she loved who vanished never came back, but once he stops being Batman they can be together. If that's the way female friends love their male friends, then I'm Mother Theresa.

 

[Gianakin_]

Yes, they were most definitely in love. She kisses him romantically, tells him he's the man she loves. That's why she says that the man she loved who vanished never came back, but once he stops being Batman they can be together. If that's the way female friends love their male friends, then I'm Mother Theresa.

Hahahahaha!

 

[Travesty]

Yes, they were most definitely in love. She kisses him romantically, tells him he's the man she loves. That's why she says that the man she loved who vanished never came back, but once he stops being Batman they can be together. If that's the way female friends love their male friends, then I'm Mother Theresa.

Yeah, all that happened, but she even says pretty bluntly that she's not in love with him. If they were in love, than wouldn't she be with him? Just because she was in love with him in the past, doesn't mean she still has those same feelings, which she said clearly, "and then I found out about your mask". She let him off gently, by saying she can't love him if he's going to be Batman. Bruce still kept his feelings, which is evident in TDK, but she let him off at the end of Begins. She wasn't in love with him romantically anymore.

 

[Gianakin_]

Yeah, all that happened, but she even says pretty bluntly that she's not in love with him. If they were in love, than wouldn't she be with him? Just because she was in love with him in the past, doesn't mean she still has those same feelings, which she said clearly, "and then I found out about your mask". She let him off gently, by saying she can't love him if he's going to be Batman. Bruce still kept his feelings, which is evident in TDK, but she let him off at the end of Begins. She wasn't in love with him romantically anymore.

I think that their relationship in BB was the residue of their childhood. For Bruce it's even more, since she was indeed his only hope and rememberance of a normal life.

 

[ChrisB]

I visitied Jett's forums a couple of days ago, and he seems more sure than usual that filming in New Orleans will be minimal, if not completely non-existent. Apparently WB is pushing to film in the city thanks to tax breaks, but Nolan and Phister would prefer to remain in London for scenes not shot in Chicago.

This tweet appears to back that up, but since it's Jett who knows.

http://***********/TheWrap/status/2964394413662208

I've got video of Pfister talking about it here:
http://batman-news.com/2010/11/12/wally-pfister-says-the-dark-knight-rises-wont-be-all-imax-doubts-itll-shoot-in-nola/

WB is pushing for it to film in New Orleans, and has already been down there to check out possible locations. I'm under the impression that it's already a done deal, so if they pull out, it's definitely a last minute decision. If you watch the video, Pfister doubts the rumor, but also ends with "I have no idea if that's true or not...". We'll see!

 

[The Joker]

Yeah, all that happened, but she even says pretty bluntly that she's not in love with him. If they were in love, then wouldn't she be with him? Just because she was in love with him in the past, doesn't mean she still has those same feelings, which she said clearly, "and then I found out about your mask". She let him off gently, by saying she can't love him if he's going to be Batman. Bruce still kept his feelings, which is evident in TDK, but she let him off at the end of Begins. She wasn't in love with him romantically anymore.

She never says she's not in love with him. "Then I found out about your mask". She says she can't be with him as long as he's Batman, but when he stops, they can. She reaffirms in TDK that she meant that when she said it. But in TDK she comes to the realization that day is never going to happen because Bruce will always need Batman. So she lets him go and moves on with Harvey.

See Bruce in Begins thought his mission as Batman was going to be finite. One of the lessons he learns in TDK is that ain't going to happen.

 

[Travesty]

She never says she's not in love with him. "Then I found out about your mask". She says she can't be with him as long as he's Batman, but when he stops, they can.

-"but then I found out about your mask....the man I loved, the man who vanished, he never came back at all".

That's pretty clear that she used to love Bruce, but not currently.

She reaffirms in TDK that she meant that when she said it. But in TDK she comes to the realization that day is never going to happen because Bruce will always need Batman. So she lets him go and moves on with Harvey.

Her speech at the end of Begins sounded like she knew Bruce would always be Batman, which as the audience, we should know will be an endless task, regardless if Bruce had thoughts of it being a finite endeavor or not.

And the point is, Rachel wasn't in love with Bruce. She used to love him, yes, but not at the end of Begins, or throughout TDK.

 

[The Joker]

-"but then I found out about your mask....the man I loved, the man who vanished, he never came back at all".

I'm pretty sure she says pretty clearly that she used to love Bruce, but not currently.

You're splitting hairs. She's saying she can't be with him while he's Batman. That's why the subject of them being together arises in TDK, because there's the chance he will give up being Batman.

Her speech at the end of Begins sounded like she knew Bruce would always be Batman, which as the audience, we should know will be an endless task, regardless if Bruce had thoughts of it being a finite endeavor or not.

And the point is, Rachel wasn't in love with Bruce. She used to love him, yes, but not at the end of Begins, or throughout TDK.

That's your perception of it. TDK contradicts what you're saying. She did love Bruce. She just couldn't be with him while he was Batman.

Bruce: "You once told me that when the day came that I would stop, we could be together"
Rachel: "Bruce, don't make me your one hope for a normal life"
Bruce: "Did you mean it?"
Rachel: "Yes"

Irrefutable proof. She wouldn't have meant it if she didn't love him. You don't switch feelings of love on and off like a light switch.

 

[Boom]

-"but then I found out about your mask....the man I loved, the man who vanished, he never came back at all".

That's pretty clear that she used to love Bruce, but not currently.

Not necessarily.

I loved my deceased grandparents.

I can't say I love them, since they aren't around anymore. Rachel can't say she loves Bruce, because Bruce is "gone."

EDIT: I need to read posts more carefully . I agree with you, Travesty.

 

[Travesty]

You're splitting hairs. She's saying she can't be with him while he's Batman. That's why the subject of them being together arises in TDK, because there's the chance he will give up being Batman.

Am I missing something here? The whole reason that we're having this discussion, is because you said they were in love at the end of Begins, but they weren't. Bruce was (obviously), but Rachel even says she used to love the old Bruce, but she's not in love with the new Bruce that has a mask. She says clearly, that Bruce's face is now the mask, meaning she knows that he has transformed into Batman full time, while hides as Bruce. She's not in love with Batman, and now Bruce is Batman.

That's your perception of it. TDK contradicts what you're saying. She did love Bruce. She just couldn't be with him while he was Batman.

Again, I understand that, and have even said that, but at the end of Begins, he was still Batman. She wasn't in love with him.

Bruce: "You once told me that when the day came that I would stop, we could be together"
Rachel: "Bruce, don't make me your one hope for a normal life"
Bruce: "Did you mean it?"
Rachel: "Yes"

Irrefutable proof. She wouldn't have meant it if she didn't love him. You don't switch feelings of love on and off like a light switch.

I'm not denying the fact. What I'm saying, was in the current time-line of the story, she wasn't in love with Bruce. Yes, there was potential for love, but she knew that as long as Bruce was Batman, she couldn't be with him, which she clearly stated at the end of Begins.