The Defenders The Defenders Discussion Thread (NO SPOILER TAGS NECESSARY!)

[MadVillainy]

I don't know, go back and watch LC. He tends to use minimal force against regular people. I don't think I've ever seen him wail on someone like Danny was.

Remember, in LC episode 2 the kid who had Cage at gun point. He could have beat that kid senseless, but just lets him run away. Danny or Matt would have put that kid in a hospital.

But the "regular" people who attacked him couldve still been trying to feed their family and just followed orders. And with Cage's strength and ability he could've incapacitated people without even throwing a punch

 

[idiot09]

You know what also bothered me? That scene where Cage just goes in on Danny's white privilege. Yeah I get it Danny is rich and white. But Cage saying "the kid was trying to feed his family." Couldn't you say that about almost any mook Cage fights too? So why talk down to Danny about it?

Thank you. You brought up what I was thinking as well. And when IF referred to that, LC just brushed that aside.

It feels like that whole scene was just to give some people that cathartic factor of disliking Iron Fist because it followed a rich white character (even though they have no problem following Green Arrow, Iron Man, and Batman)

Same. It can be said for pretty much every white rich superhero who use their violence on poor people. Its an interesting issue tbh, and should have been explored further.

 

[Nathan]

Did anyone else not like the whole idea of Sowande hiring kids to clean murder scenes? Isn't that way too risky to get some random people to clean up for you? What if one of them would have gotten squeamish and started talking to the Police? You'd think they'd have a professional clean up crew for that.

 

[javonstokess]

But the "regular" people who attacked him couldve still been trying to feed their family and just followed orders. And with Cage's strength and ability he could've incapacitated people without even throwing a punch

Which he does...ALOT. Seriously, just watch some of Luke's action scenes in JJ and LC. He lets people shot or hit him and just kinda throws them away from him. Defenders is one of the first real times he's action throwing punches.

Cage generally takes the punishment and, well, moves people out of the way. Danny and Matt lay severe, life altering, beatings on people.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

couldnt they understand that the entire freaking city was at stake? They acted like he was just doing it for kicks.

to be fair both sides are true. he clearly created that whole vigilante idea partly for kicks. that wasn't the only reason of course, but it was one of them

 

[javonstokess]

Did anyone else not like the whole idea of Sowande hiring kids to clean murder scenes? Isn't that way too risky to get some random people to clean up for you? What if one of them would have gotten squeamish and started talking to the Police? You'd think they'd have a professional clean up crew for that.

It's no different than getting kids to sell drugs.

 

[javonstokess]

to be fair both sides are true. he clearly created that whole vigilante idea partly for kicks. that wasn't the only reason of course, but it was one of them

When did THAT theory purpose itself? I thought he started doing it because the law wasn't getting the intended results (i.e. the guy who kept beating on his wife that he took out in s1).

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Cage generally takes the punishment and, well, moves people out of the way. Danny and Matt lay severe, life altering, beatings on people.

Exactly

 

[Blitzkrieg]

That interaction between Luke and Danny at the end of the 2nd episode was fun. It's also the first time something interesting happened in the show because everything else before that fight was kinda boring. I hope things pick up quickly after this.

 

[MadVillainy]

Which he does...ALOT. Seriously, just watch some of Luke's action scenes in JJ and LC. He lets people shot or hit him and just kinda throws them away from him. Defenders is one of the first real times he's action throwing punches.

Cage generally takes the punishment and, well, moves people out of the way. Danny and Matt lay severe, life altering, beatings on people.

But you know what also bothered me. That scene where Cage just goes in on Danny's white priveledge. Yeah I get it Danny is rich and white. But Cage saying "the kid was trying to feed his family." Couldn't you say that about almost any mook Cage fights too? So why talk down to Danny about it?

Cage throws normal people into concrete walls. If you don't think that hurts just as bad as getting punched then

EDIT: Looking at the bar scene in JJ he's throwing punches and slaps. Those guys were just a-holes though. Can't use the "They were just trying to help their families"

EDIT: And then in the Crispus Attucks scene he kicks someone in the chest, hits people with a car door, and hits people with a metal pipe.

What are y'all playing at trying to make it seem like Cage is this teddy beat he rarely does anything that violent

 

[javonstokess]

Cage throws normal people into concrete walls. If you don't think that hurts just as bad as getting punched then

I already previously stated that Defenders is the first time he really goes all out and that's against the Hand.

He doesn't do that in his show. The most he's done is swing a couch at people and even then it's more to back them away.

 

[MadVillainy]

I already previously stated that Defenders is the first time he really goes all out and that's against the Hand.

He doesn't do that in his show. The most he's done is swing a couch at people and even then it's more to back them away.

That's just flat out false

And again, no matter what you think throwing people into walls and out windows (I think he throws someone out a window) is just as bad as punching or kicking people (which he does in his show and in JJ)

EDIT: Still watching the scene and I hear bone breaks. At least in the arm.

 

[javonstokess]

But you know what also bothered me. That scene where Cage just goes in on Danny's white priveledge. Yeah I get it Danny is rich and white. But Cage saying "the kid was trying to feed his family." Couldn't you say that about almost any mook Cage fights too? So why talk down to Danny about it?

Cage throws normal people into concrete walls. If you don't think that hurts just as bad as getting punched then

EDIT: Looking at the bar scene in JJ he's throwing punches and slaps. Those guys were just a-holes though. Can't use the "They were just trying to help their families"

EDIT: And then in the Crispus Attucks scene he kicks someone in the chest, hits people with a car door, and hits people with a metal pipe.

What are y'all playing at trying to make it seem like Cage is this teddy beat he rarely does anything that violent

You are overstating to try and make my point invalid. I said Cage uses minimal force. I didn't say he uses NO force.

In regards to the whole "feed his family" thing, there is a HUGE difference between beating up drug dealers and beating up a guy who's disposing bodies, not including the fact that said individual literally RUN from the fight and doesn't fight back when caught.

You are missing the context.

 

[Nathan]

It's no different than getting kids to sell drugs.

Letting kids sell little plastic bags with drugs is one thing. But getting them to clean up after your recent killing spree? Obviously those bodies need to be taken care of quickly and discreetly. So you get your pros to take care of them. Especially in case they get discovered, you'd want someone who can make some additional bodies disappear, or at least can escape without a trace.

Probably the only reason they had Sowande involve kids, is so Iron Fist and Luke Cage could cross paths, and have some conflict.

 

[Nathan]

Still watching the scene and I hear bone breaks. At least in the arm.

When he's in the room surrounded by goons, he's breaking bones left and right.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

I couldn't go along with the plot for 1 reason. If that substance is supposedly so precious, why waste it on an army of goons? Using it on someone like Nobu and Elektra? Sure. But a random Ninja foot soldier? And there were tons of those in Daredevil Season 2. They must have had come up with the whole looking for Shao-Lao's bones plot at the last minute.

Was it actually Shao-Lao though? Or some other dragon? That was unclear to me.

Alexandra said something about them roaming the countryside or whatever.

If it was Shao-Lao...that's an even bigger problem. How did he get from the disappeared city of K'un L'un (which the Hand can't get back to) to NYC? AND so far under ground.

Edit: Plus, isn't the dragon's whole thing that he's the Undying? If it is him, how'd they actually kill him?

 

[MadVillainy]

You are overstating to try and make my point invalid. I said Cage uses minimal force. I didn't say he uses NO force.

In regards to the whole "feed his family" thing, there is a HUGE difference between beating up drug dealers and beating up a guy who's disposing bodies, not including the fact that said individual literally RUN from the fight and doesn't fight back when caught.

You are missing the context.

You literally said:

He tends to use minimal force against regular people. I don't think I've ever seen him wail on someone like Danny was.
.

and

Seriously, just watch some of Luke's action scenes in JJ and LC. He lets people shot or hit him and just kinda throws them away from him. Defenders is one of the first real times he's action throwing punches.

ANd it's proven that in the Crispus Attucks scene alone that he's hitting people with metal poles, metal doors, and breaking arms. In the boxing gym scene he throws people through windows.
Cage can't get hurt very easily and has super strength, he could easily, for most villains, just wrap them in metal and leave them there. Which he does on occasion. But he does not use minimum force all the time.

All those people in Crispus Attucks could be like: "I need to feed my family, Cage is getting in the way of that." and he still knocked them upside the head with a metal pole or throw them into concrete walls which is just as brutal as Danny throwing his punches.

Your point has been proven wrong. Cage uses more than minimal force. The fact that they're unconscious proves that.

With the kid running: he could've been running to get back up, to get another weapon, or just running. Danny doesn't know. He's not gonna let someone get more weapons/goons or let someone who has ties to The Hand who he's been chasing down for months/training years to get away


EDIT: That scene could've worked a lot better if Danny was already hurting him. If he was severely beating him and then Cage jumped in.

 

[scarlet-witch]

I haven't finished the season yet, I just came into this thread because I can't resist spoilers.

You're telling me Matt and Claire don't even acknowledge each other? Not ONCE?! That's ridiculous.

 

[MadVillainy]

I haven't finished the season yet, I just came into this thread because I can't resist spoilers.

You're telling me Matt and Claire don't even acknowledge each other? Not ONCE?! That's ridiculous.

yeah that was a bit weird. Could've even been a short comedic moment between Clair, Matt, and Cage

 

[Nathan]

Was it actually Shao-Lao though? Or some other dragon? That was unclear to me.

Alexandra said something about them roaming the countryside or whatever.

If it was Shao-Lao...that's an even bigger problem. How did he get from the disappeared city of K'un L'un (which the Hand can't get back to) to NYC? AND so far under ground.

Edit: Plus, isn't the dragon's whole thing that he's the Undying? If it is him, how'd they actually kill him?

It confused me too. When Danny talked to Madame Gao he said "You desecrate Shao-Lao." to which she responds "You punched him in the heart." So my guess it that Shao-Lao maybe dies once in a while, but then gets reborn.

 

[MadVillainy]

When he's in the room surrounded by goons, he's breaking bones left and right.

This guy gets it

 

[Scarecrow_King]

It confused me too. When Danny talked to Madame Gao he said "You desecrate Shao-Lao." to which she responds "You punched him in the heart." So my guess it that Shao-Lao maybe dies once in a while, but then gets reborn.

Well....even then. Shao-Lao was alive just a few years (months?) ago for Danny to punch in the heart. It makes no sense for the bones 40 stories underground to be Shao-Lao.

 

[Nathan]

Well, if Shao-Lao existed for Millenia, underground New York could be one of the places he died in his previous life.

 

[KevTravels]

how many punches and kicks by DD or IF to a henchman can cause serious physical and cerebral damage?

and damn Luke was kinda flinging some dudes. They have to be paralyzed.

I thought it interesting no one said anything in the restaurant fight when Stick was killing dudes left and right.

 

[MadVillainy]

how many punches and kicks by DD or IF to a henchman can cause serious physical and cerebral damage?

and damn Luke was kinda flinging some dudes. They have to be paralyzed.

I thought it interesting no one said anything in the restaurant fight when Stick was killing dudes left and right.

Yeah that's the funny thing about all these superheroes who don't kill. But they damn sure main or severely damage.