The Defenders The Defenders Discussion Thread (NO SPOILER TAGS NECESSARY!)

[Spider-Fan]

I thought Finn Jones did a fine job myself, but to each their own. Also, seems Iron Fist will go an interesting direction for next season given how this ended.

 

[Iceman]

He was much better than before and that stuff was down to what they gave the character to do rather than an issue with the actor. The show has actually made me interested in a 2nd Iron Fist season. Hopefully they really deliver this time.

 

[rogue trooper]

It was a very enjoyable ride. Loved the interaction between our heroes as well as each of their supporting cast. Colter and Jones really seem to be forming that bromance from the comics quite successfully. Well-developed chemistry between Matt and Jessica too. A very emotional and satisfying ending. Alexandra made for a very convincing villain. Not quite as memorable as Fisk or Killgrave, but still considerably sturdy. All in all, yet another Marvel/Netflix show that didn't disappoint me.

 

[TheVileOne]

Just give Finn Jones a costume.

 

[kguillou]

I don't think Danny's getting a costume, honestly. I just don't think it was ever a part of this version of Iron Fist or an intention on the part of the people in charge. I think we're just going to have to get used to this being a different interpretation of the character. This Danny doesn't care about showing his face and really hasn't shown any reason to don a costume.

 

[Iceman]

The interaction between the heroes was what I most wanted to work well from this series and on that front it's been close to perfect. Plus it's been great having the supporting characters for each hero featuring to varying degrees.

 

[Surfer]

Watching it for a 2nd time will finish it again tomorrow. I love the show overall and seeing the character interactions and fight scenes are great, but have some issues with it.

Do we know why Madame Gao is the only finger of the hand that seems to possess a power? I actually wish they changed it so all the hands 5 fingers had powers. Instead of introducing Alexandra they could have made her like Typhoid Mary, I mean Sigourney Weaver did a great performance, but if she and the other fingers of the hand had powers it would truly have seemed like an against all odds situation for the heroes. I mean not only would they have to fight through a massive amount of hand Ninjas that essentially amount to fodder, but take on super powered individuals making it an up hill battle. Also, giving them powers would have given the opportunity for Elektra to turn on the hand once she started remembering Matt, and join with the Defenders. So, basically it would be 4 Defenders and Elektra versus the 5 fingers of the Hand with powers that they would face, after a hoard of Hand Ninja's. They could have still made it they were seeking immortality and even made Alexandra's or Typhoid Mary's illness be a result of her powers. Perhaps she has a strong resistance, but eventually she starts getting sick from her powers and the dragon bone powder is the only thing that can cause regeneration.

Another thing that bothered me was Luke Cage was hit by Iron Fist many times without it having any effect on him what so ever, until Danny uses the Iron Fist. I loved that fight scene, but later Luke is shown getting knocked around by White Hat and Elektra, without any powers. They should have continued with the look from the fight between Danny in Luke where he is un phased. Foe example instead of White Hat knocking Luke into the street before he gets hit by the truck he could have fought with him and had a similar effect on him like Danny, but in the mean time be leading him into the street so another Hand member can try to run him over. Although, I digress because this is yet another problem that could have been mostly resolved if they gave the main 5 fingers of the hand powers. Although, it still would have needed to be changed in the scenes where Elektra knocks Luke back in my opinion.

Also, it bothered me when they were going to keep Danny from leaving against his will that a fight broke out between mostly Matt and Danny and they portrayed in my opinion Matt as the more skilled fighter. I wished it felt more like it took all 3 of them to take Danny down, but it certainly didn't feel that way.

There were other things to that could have been better, like Elektra's motivation for wanting to lead the Hand? I mean she just took the powder and was regenerated and revived recently, would it even do her any good? At least Alexandra had a reason for wanting the powder, but Elektra has a long time before she needs concern herself with the issue of death. So, why fight and risk your life if it is not currently in jeopardy, just so you can extend your life.

Well anyways that is some of the stuff that bothered me.

Surfer

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Watching it for a 2nd time will finish it again tomorrow. I love the show overall and seeing the character interactions and fight scenes are great, but have some issues with it.

Do we know why Madame Gao is the only finger of the hand that seems to possess a power? I actually wish they changed it so all the hands 5 fingers had powers. Instead of introducing Alexandra they could have made her like Typhoid Mary, I mean Sigourney Weaver did a great performance, but if she and the other fingers of the hand had powers it would truly have seemed like an against all odds situation for the heroes. I mean not only would they have to fight through a massive amount of hand Ninjas that essentially amount to fodder, but take on super powered individuals making it an up hill battle. Also, giving them powers would have given the opportunity for Elektra to turn on the hand once she started remembering Matt, and join with the Defenders. So, basically it would be 4 Defenders and Elektra versus the 5 fingers of the Hand with powers that they would face, after a hoard of Hand Ninja's. They could have still made it they were seeking immortality and even made Alexandra's or Typhoid Mary's illness be a result of her powers. Perhaps she has a strong resistance, but eventually she starts getting sick from her powers and the dragon bone powder is the only thing that can cause regeneration.

Another thing that bothered me was Luke Cage was hit by Iron Fist many times without it having any effect on him what so ever, until Danny uses the Iron Fist. I loved that fight scene, but later Luke is shown getting knocked around by White Hat and Elektra, without any powers. They should have continued with the look from the fight between Danny in Luke where he is un phased. Foe example instead of White Hat knocking Luke into the street before he gets hit by the truck he could have fought with him and had a similar effect on him like Danny, but in the mean time be leading him into the street so another Hand member can try to run him over. Although, I digress because this is yet another problem that could have been mostly resolved if they gave the main 5 fingers of the hand powers. Although, it still would have needed to be changed in the scenes where Elektra knocks Luke back in my opinion.

Also, it bothered me when they were going to keep Danny from leaving against his will that a fight broke out between mostly Matt and Danny and they portrayed in my opinion Matt as the more skilled fighter. I wished it felt more like it took all 3 of them to take Danny down, but it certainly didn't feel that

Danny wasn't finished with his training. Elektra was amped up on Black Sky level. The Hand are Kun'Lun fighters with better training than Danny. He would be on their level if he stayed.

 

[Octavias]

I thought they set up Cage's "get out of jail free" card pretty easily in the last episode of his series.

The conversation you're referencing was fine to me because it was a matter of perspective. Though, Cage has a history of trying NOT to fight people and talk first. Danny was beating the crap out of a kid who WASN'T fighting back. Their differences are a large part of who their characters are even in the books.

While im sure the writer probably was soapboxing there, I thought the scene played well in the context that at first every one of the heros were still playing there own angles... Danny is on this singleminded quest without really understanding anything really... Luke is still playing harlems hero... trying to save that kid without really understanding the gravity of what's happening... Jessica is working the PI angle and wants seperation from the superhero life that led her to kilgrave originally.. matt is trying to get past the Elektra death...

That speech kind of shows Cage's focus at that point... all of them are not following the path they need to until they realize they need each other to survive and win...

 

[Octavias]

So does anyone else feel like they cut an absurd amount fromthis series.... there were so many scenes that came ot of nowhere with dialogue that makes me think therewas more material that set it up...the most obvious is them all showing up in the Hands building the first time... there is absolutely more lead in to that... rewatching this it feels like it was heavily trimmed

 

[Superhero 101]

Finished it I liked it I didn't think it was great daredevil season 1 and 2 and jj are still my favorite

 

[Herolee10]

Looking back on everything, I kind of wish that they wouldn't have built up the Hand as being some powerful and well resourced global organization because it didn't feel like that at all when they were supposed to be presented at their best in this show.

I mean if they are supposed to have that many resources, they couldn't afford to bring in more technological weapons that would easily incapacitate the Defenders? I mean they keep saying that this is still tied to the larger MCU, a place where getting things like drones, enhanced mercenaries, and even hi-tech body armor shouldn't be a problem for people who have global connections.

Furthermore, they kept saying on how they have armies at their disposal and yet they only had a handful of nameless goons go up against the Defenders as well.

Plus, whatever happened to the well trained ninjas that we saw in Season 2 of Daredevil?

I feel like those ninjas would have given the likes of Iron Fist and Jessica a run for their money because they don't have either body armor or bulletproof skin to help them. I guarantee you that if Jessica had gone up against those ninjas on her own, she would have been killed.

 

[Nathan]

That's what the show was missing, the Defenders drowning in a sea of Ninjas.

I hate how they seemingly just disappeared. The only time they ever show up again, is during Elektra's training session. After that, they are gone for good. And agreed, for a Global Crime Organization, they seemed to have very little resources. They should have had at least some of their men outfitted with the same gear Diamondback had. Or just any sort of high-end Hammer tech. It's the only time Luke Cage should have ever struggled.

And the 5 Leaders of the Hand should have been way more formidable. The only one that seemed to be any threat, was Madame Gao. The others, Murakami, Sowande and Bakuto, were all above grunt level, but still way below Nobu levels of pure badassery.

 

[Smilodon]

I mentioned this in the other thread, but there are plenty of martial arts trope beyond moving things with one's chi that they could've mined for Bakuto, Sowande and Murakami. They freakin' say that Sowande can hit pressure points!

I'm also reminded of Wuxia films like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Murakami should've been able to at least leap large distances or something. Float etc.

 

[Herolee10]

That's what the show was missing, the Defenders drowning in a sea of Ninjas.

I hate how they seemingly just disappeared. The only time they ever show up again, is during Elektra's training session. After that, they are gone for good. And agreed, for a Global Crime Organization, they seemed to have very little resources. They should have had at least some of their men outfitted with the same gear Diamondback had. Or just any sort of high-end Hammer tech. It's the only time Luke Cage should have ever struggled.

And the 5 Leaders of the Hand should have been way more formidable. The only one that seemed to be any threat, was Madame Gao. The others, Murakami, Sowande and Bakuto, were all above grunt level, but still way below Nobu levels of pure badassery.

In hindsight, I think they should have renegotiated with Netflix to have gotten the episode count to 10, along with Loeb securing more funds to use for the production budget for this show. I do wish that we could have seen the Defenders go up against the skilled ninjas that Matt and Elektra had gone up against in his second season.

And like others have said, they should have given some of the other leaders of the Hand powers of their own to make them stand out. I honestly don't know why the rest of the leaders were so scared of Alexandra when she has no powers of her own to protect her. It would be so easy to assassinate her, especially during the events of "The Defenders" given on how they don't have the substance needed to revive themselves.

If it were me, I would have made each leader of the Hand have their own specific powers/traits to make them formidable and distinguishable.

1. Madam Gao could specialize in having that Force Push, perhaps being the one to have mastered her Chi out of the rest of the leaders.

2. Alexandra's gift could have been that she is the ONLY one that can't normally be killed by outside forces (physical injury or poison) and that it was the result of her own decaying health that was starting to make her vulnerable. She would also be the only leader capable of bringing back someone from the dead.

3. Murakami could have been the one that was most proficient in using weapons and being a master martial artist when compared to everyone else.

4. Bakuto could have perhaps been given mental powers where he is able to manipulating(though not to the same degree that Kilgrave could do) and hypnotizing others into following his will.

5. Sowande would be the one in charge of developing hi tech weapons that would aid the group. He would have produced weapons, perhaps mechanized gauntlets, that would have helped him against fighting the likes of Bakuto.

 

[Nathan]

I would have definitely liked that. And I also would have liked to see them wear something unique, like Nobu did.

Something to make them stand out more from the rest. I really didn't like how they all blended in with the rest of the fodder. Overall the whole battle really lacked some color. It was all just a sea of black jackets. It just didn't feel like they were fighting an ancient evil organization. They were interchangeable with the Russian mob goons from Daredevil Season 1.

Same for our heroes. I know not all of them like to wear a costume, but why couldn't Luke Cage have worn his yellow trademark T-shirt? And Jessica, during the course of the battle, could have been reduced to fighting in her white tanktop. There was just too much black overall.

 

[Verick808]

I kind of wishes they had given Iron Fist a costume for his final scene. Especially since it looks like he will be filling in for DD for a while.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Watching episode 6 right now, and it looks like my guess about Matt being a better fighter than Danny was right, he landed more hits and dodged more strikes.

 

[Nathan]

I seriously enjoyed watching Matt beat the **** out of the petulant child.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I feel sorry for Danny, he saved Matt's life in episode 3.

 

[Verick808]

Watching episode 6 right now, and it looks like my guess about Matt being a better fighter than Danny was right, he landed more hits and dodged more strikes.

I think hes just faster. Probably has a better reaction time and spatial awareness as well due to his enhanced senses. Still, Danny is a lot less skilled than he should be in the netflix universe.

 

[Nathan]

Watching his stunt with the car in Season 1, I would have assumed Danny to be physically enhanced, because he uses chi to strengthen his body. The way Elektra was knocking people around, I always assumed Iron Fist to be on the same level. The iron fist not being his only trick. But in the Netflix show he's just a skilled fighter, who'd lose most of the time, if he couldn't summon that fist.

 

[Predator jp]

I really didn't like how they all blended in with the rest of the fodder. Overall the whole battle really lacked some color. It was all just a sea of black jackets. It just didn't feel like they were fighting an ancient evil organization. They were interchangeable with the Russian mob goons from Daredevil Season 1.

i agree.
i was really dissapointed with the final battle.
they all looked the same and it was too dark to see what was going on.
and that horrible music placement certainly didn't help.

 

[Loki882]

You know, Colleen really should be the fourth member of The Defenders. She's far more interesting and impressive than Danny has been so far.

still wasn't that impressed with Danny here. Which is a shame because I REALLY want to like him. And when he gets to play off of Luke Cage, he's actually pretty good. But when he's trying to act tough/angry, or just by himself/playing off of his own show's characters, yeah not nearly as good.

Also they still write him as an idiot, which is maddening at this point.

Right now, Colleen really should be the fourth member of The Defenders. She's far more interesting and impressive than Danny has been so far.

 

[javonstokess]

A couple of things:

It's a common misconception for people to consider Iron Fist to be "the best martial artist in the world". I don't think he's ever been considered that, even in the comics. He's the champion of K'un L'un, and the Iron Fist, but he's not the best. That generally fell to characters like Shang-Chi. With that said, it makes total sense for Matt to, at this point, be better than Danny especially after Stick calling DD the most naturally skilled fighter he's ever seen.

Also, while I loved the show, I do agree with the overall assessment that the 5 fingers of the Hand should have had at least 1 extra-normal ability like Gao. The lack of uniformed ninjas was jarring as well.