The Flash The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 10

[2kt09]

Seems like the show is following Arrow's formula.

Season 1- Regarded as the best season by a lot of fans

Season 2- Good but not as great as Season 1. Titular hero gets a minor costume upgrade to look more comic accurate (Arrow with a mask and Flash with a white emblem). Surviving parent is also killed near the end of the season by the main villain (i.e. Moira and Henry).

Season 3- Titular hero's main sidekick received their official costume (Arsenal and Kid Flash).

Season 4- Tituar hero receives a big costume uprade. Main Female lead is overused and becomes a source or irritation for quite a few fans. The main season's big bad and their respective ultimate plans is also uninteresting as well.

So if we continue the trend then hopefully season 5 will revive this show.

Season 2 is regarded as the best season, more often than not, with the inclusion of having to face his mentor and putting him & his allies (loved ones) through the ringer. That sounds like s1 of The Flash.

In The Flash's case, s3 was obviously an improvement over s2 even if "Flashpoint" "Paradox" was a letdown.

s4 did already partially revive this show...by bringing back the wit. It could certainly use more stakes relative to previous seasons, but it is at the very least trying to be a lighthearted romp.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Season 2 is regarded as the best season, more often than not, with the inclusion of having to face his mentor and putting him & his allies (loved ones) through the ringer. That sounds like s1 of The Flash.

In The Flash's case, s3 was obviously an improvement over s2 even if "Flashpoint" "Paradox" was a letdown.

s4 did already partially revive this show...by bringing back the wit. It could certainly use more stakes relative to previous seasons, but it is at the very least trying to be a lighthearted romp.

Season 2 was better than Season 3. Going to the well for a 3rd time only to have Savitar revealed as a bad future Barry was the low point of the series, especially considering that the first part of the season seemingly set up Dr. Alchemy so well.

 

[2kt09]

Season 2 was better than Season 3. Going to the well for a 3rd time only to have Savitar revealed as a bad future Barry was the low point of the series, especially considering that the first part of the season seemingly set up Dr. Alchemy so well.

Even with a double 'who could he be?', s3 had better story structure and standalone narratives. Get out of town, that's "the" low point? Flashpoint Paradox itself wasn't that interesting, but a villain like Savitar created from it made me appreciate what the writers could still come up with.

 

[igoogol]

Iris hasn't made everything about herself. Wally wasn't used to prop up Iris. Wally got his own story and arc that was only connected to Iris is the most thin way last season and in season 2 Iris had a part in it, but it was mainly Joe focused. Iris is a leader of the team though (but not Barry, he has made all his own decisions) and she has helped. Iris isn't super, but she is a hero. She's helped save people. HR was the same. He was none of those things though and he was fine.

Yes, Iris makes everything about herself or you wouldn't even know she's there. Yes, Wally was used to prop up Iris because most of his scenes were with her. And how else would you explain why they moved Wally to Legends now that Barry's in prison? Iris is leader of the team like she's flash, a cop, a scientist, ie she's none of these. All the good guys save people, but Iris gets extra credit because she's Barry's girl? HR did his part and was written off. Iris is still here, standing glaringly out of place while the team do their work.

No matter how hard Candice, her fans and the writers stan Iris, nothing is going to make her more than a shoehorned love interest, and attempts to do so only point out that she has no qualifications to be on the team.

theres a rumor going around that the girl writing in speedforce nonsense is barry and iris' daughter lol

She's definitely a lead-in to pregnant Iris this season. CW gotta CW.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Are you blaming Iris for Wally getting kicked off the show? If so...It's a big a stretch considering they had Ralph take over and if anything was the reason Wally got let go. He gets more focus then Iris or anyone who isn't Barry got in 3 seasons. But him and Julian can just come in and be inserted into every storyline and no one bats an eye lash.

 

[dreammaster]

dont feel bad for wally he is going to be a series regular on legends of tomorrow

 

[Avenging Angel]

No I feel bad for all the interesting characters that get sidelined for Iris bossing people around with no skills in her belt to do so. Candice's terrible acting doesn't help it either.

 

[igoogol]

Are you blaming Iris for Wally getting kicked off the show? If so...It's a big a stretch considering they had Ralph take over and if anything was the reason Wally got let go. He gets more focus then Iris or anyone who isn't Barry got in 3 seasons. But him and Julian can just come in and be inserted into every storyline and no one bats an eye lash.

I'm blaming Iris for Wally joining the show too soon and being booted off now that she's fake flash. Ralph is a fun temp while Barry broods in prison. Ralph's screen time is more than needed after 1.5 spectacularly horrible seasons of constant doom and gloom, but I suppose you didn't bat an eyelash at that since it's been about Iris. She isn't a superhero or CSI, so why would anyone have issue with them. Julian did his thing and left, Ralph will do the same. But we're stuck with potted plant Iris.

dont feel bad for wally he is going to be a series regular on legends of tomorrow

Again, that's a wash for me. They replace Jax with Wally. Happy for Wally, still unhappy for Jax. If they can have Ray and Nate on the team, they can have Jax and Wally on the team, too.

 

[marvelrobbins]

No I feel bad for all the interesting characters that get sidelined for Iris bossing people around with no skills in her belt to do so. Candice's terrible acting doesn't help it either.

with what is on screen and new spoily set pics i am ready to drop flash. i am not here for iris west allen show. maybe next year they will move killer frost to lot so i can watch danielle again regurly.

iris ha sbeen horrably written and Candice doesn't help it any.

 

[Dark Raven]

They could just move Iris and Felicity to their own dumping ground show and call it Desperate Hero Wives. Those who want to watch them can watch, and the rest of us can enjoy the other shows in peace.

 

[igoogol]

They could just move Iris and Felicity to their own dumping ground show and call it Desperate Hero Wives. Those who want to watch them can watch, and the rest of us can enjoy the other shows in peace.

Where do I sign this petition?

 

[KevTravels]

Why does The Flash feel like 1 of those syndicated series sometimes? It's like the acting from guest stars feels so campy or downright embarassing.

Is there a reason for such a drop in writing since season 1?

 

[Primal Slayer]

I'm blaming Iris for Wally joining the show too soon and being booted off now that she's fake flash. Ralph is a fun temp while Barry broods in prison. Ralph's screen time is more than needed after 1.5 spectacularly horrible seasons of constant doom and gloom, but I suppose you didn't bat an eyelash at that since it's been about Iris. She isn't a superhero or CSI, so why would anyone have issue with them. Julian did his thing and left, Ralph will do the same. But we're stuck with potted plant Iris.


Again, that's a wash for me. They replace Jax with Wally. Happy for Wally, still unhappy for Jax. If they can have Ray and Nate on the team, they can have Jax and Wally on the team, too.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

Why does The Flash feel like 1 of those syndicated series sometimes? It's like the acting from guest stars feels so campy or downright embarassing.

Is there a reason for such a drop in writing since season 1?

Because they only care about writing Iris.
Everything else is just in the way.

 

[Herolee10]

In regards to Devoe/The Thinker, honestly with everything that I've seen of the character thus far, he just doesn't have that IT factor to be considered and viewed as a season's big bad villain.

I mean he might be interesting as a recurring villain. The only time that I thought he came off as a interesting character was during his conversation with Barry at the University when he finally revealed the true nature of his character.

Now when it comes to Iris's character, it's just the fact that she's been shoehorned into a position that she has absolutely no credentials for that makes a lot of fans irritated.

She has never displayed any traits in past seasons that would make her into a qualified person for being Team Flash's leader.

She went from being a barista to an amateur journalist in one season, with the latter only happening because of her ties to the Flash.

And the whole "You're not the Flash Barry, we are" gimmick is just stupid and insulting. I'm sorry but there's no way that I could buy or understand such a mindset at all.

The whole problem stems from the fact that the show never solidified her as an actual character of her own, hence why she has no legitimate foundations to stand on when the situation/position calls for it.

So the whole forced Iris worship, Devoe being an uninteresting villain, and the lack of any real threats and story lines is what's hurting this season and show at the moment.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Even with a double 'who could he be?', s3 had better story structure and standalone narratives. Get out of town, that's "the" low point? Flashpoint Paradox itself wasn't that interesting, but a villain like Savitar created from it made me appreciate what the writers could still come up with.

Yes, that was the only time so far that I've felt that this series (which I still feel is the best super hero show in history) gave into a Hollywood cliché. A 3rd speedster was a mistake, and the show doubled-down on that mistake by shirking Savitar's comic roots to make him evil future Barry in armor. That sounds like something directly from the SyFy network. Seasons 1, 2, and the current one have done much better than that.

 

[2kt09]

Yes, that was the only time so far that I've felt that this series (which I still feel is the best super hero show in history) gave into a Hollywood cliché. A 3rd speedster was a mistake, and the show doubled-down on that mistake by shirking Savitar's comic roots to make him evil future Barry in armor. That sounds like something directly from the SyFy network. Seasons 1, 2, and the current one have done much better than that.

The cliches were always there, but I kept up with it because it used to be the most consistently well written.

The low point was the same season-long song and dance with the bad guy claiming to be someone he isn't. The low point was ditching Cold, Heatwave, and Golden Glider. The low point was throwing Patty Spivot to the curb because one true pairing. The low point was an aimless Wally West addition until s3 and then throwing him out the window like the rest of em'. But for me personally, the lowest point was not developing Hartley Rathaway into a more formidable foe thus solving the evil speedster equation.

 

[Lantern Venom]

The cliches were always there, but I kept up with it because it used to be the most consistently well written.

The low point was the same season-long song and dance with the bad guy claiming to be someone he isn't. The low point was ditching Cold, Heatwave, and Golden Glider. The low point was throwing Patty Spivot to the curb because one true pairing. The low point was an aimless Wally West addition until s3 and then throwing him out the window like the rest of em'. But for me personally, the lowest point was not developing Hartley Rathaway into a more formidable foe thus solving the evil speedster equation.

The Flash's story is populated by multiple speedsters, so it was a given that we would see more than Thawne. The show differentiated Thawne and Zoloman's motivations and personalities, so that wasn't a problem. Had the writers followed a similar pattern with Savitar, who has a decent story from the comics, S3 wouldn't have ended with such a fizzle. I'm not suggesting S3 was a dud, but a reveal of an angry INO time remnant can't compare to seeing that one of Flash's true rivals from the comics was keeping Jay Garrick prisoner.

As for Cold, Heatwave, Spivot, and Wally, they've all been handled well on the show. Sure, I would have been happier with a group of Rogues being the season 3 big bad instead of INO Savitar, but we have to accept that Legends of Tomorrow has a hand in what this show can do. The same applies to Wally (who had a great run on the show), who I suspect will be back often. I never saw Patty as being kicked to the curb, only the character's arc having an organic end coupled with Shantel VanSanten landing a larger role on another series. Much like I have to accept that Grodd's limited involvement with the show is largely influenced by the show's production budget, it's a fact that actors have other commitments and interests that sometimes influence the arcs of their characters. At least they were good while they were there.

 

[fan4stic]

And the whole "You're not the Flash Barry, we are" gimmick is just stupid and insulting. I'm sorry but there's no way that I could buy or understand such a mindset at all.

It's not stupid and insulting for a woman to say that they share the burdens of being the Flash with their husband personally. Getting like 3-4 episodes where she has a central story in 1 season doesn't make Iris the main character.

Yes, Iris makes everything about herself or you wouldn't even know she's there. Yes, Wally was used to prop up Iris because most of his scenes were with her. And how else would you explain why they moved Wally to Legends now that Barry's in prison? Iris is leader of the team like she's flash, a cop, a scientist, ie she's none of these. All the good guys save people, but Iris gets extra credit because she's Barry's girl? HR did his part and was written off. Iris is still here, standing glaringly out of place while the team do their work.

She doesn't. Most of his scenes were with Joe. Wally was moved to Legends to make way for Ralph. The writers wanted to do that. Iris being team leader has no infringement on Wally taking up a hero role. In fact, if that's what the show really wanted, they would continue to use Wally in that role to further prop up Iris while Barry's in prison, instead of a guy who has no relationship with her. The show has never pretended she was flash, a cop, or a scientist. But she is team leader. Whether that's forced is another issue, but she's the leader. No one said she gets extra credit, but she's still a hero, by the nature of helping to save people, like the rest of the group is. There's no competition in doing it.

No matter how hard Candice, her fans and the writers stan Iris, nothing is going to make her more than a shoehorned love interest, and attempts to do so only point out that she has no qualifications to be on the team.

People don't need qualifications to be heroic and to work with a non legal group in helping people.

Because they only care about writing Iris.
Everything else is just in the way.

And Ralph, Barry, Cisco and Caitlin. I don't understand why Iris being team leader makes you think that only Iris written for, when Ralph has had more character arc moments than her. Iris has had 4 episodes where she's had a real story in it this season and in 1 of those she was used to further Caitlin/Killer Frost's story. Caitlin is below Iris in the story avenue this season certainly, but in every season, but last season she has been. Not much has changed from the early seasons, except now Iris' stories when she has them have been tied into the main plot.

 

[fan4stic]

The cliches were always there, but I kept up with it because it used to be the most consistently well written.

The low point was the same season-long song and dance with the bad guy claiming to be someone he isn't. The low point was ditching Cold, Heatwave, and Golden Glider. The low point was throwing Patty Spivot to the curb because one true pairing. The low point was an aimless Wally West addition until s3 and then throwing him out the window like the rest of em'. But for me personally, the lowest point was not developing Hartley Rathaway into a more formidable foe thus solving the evil speedster equation.

They didn't ditch GG, HW and CC. All the actors and actress got main roles in other shows. I'm pretty sure the same for Patty's actress. Wally wasn't aimless. He had a character arc in s2.

 

[fan4stic]

I don't understand it either. Iris had nothing going on the first half of s3 and the 2nd half wasn't about her. It was about Barry's struggle with his darkness. His grief was about her, but the story wasn't. It was about Barry. The hate for Iris feels similar to the Laurel hate to me.

 

[2kt09]

The Flash's story is populated by multiple speedsters, so it was a given that we would see more than Thawne. The show differentiated Thawne and Zoloman's motivations and personalities, so that wasn't a problem. Had the writers followed a similar pattern with Savitar, who has a decent story from the comics, S3 wouldn't have ended with such a fizzle. I'm not suggesting S3 was a dud, but a reveal of an angry INO time remnant can't compare to seeing that one of Flash's true rivals from the comics was keeping Jay Garrick prisoner.

Worse than another speedster would be
yet another masking as his ally having taken someone else's identity, providing speedster tips, and then only to be revealed as the big bad.
Savitar mimics others the way the T1000 does.
I get that Zoom's backstory is from the comics, but it certainly didn't need to be adapted
when it so obviously resembles Barry's without him just being another Barry.
With the way the show adapted Savitar, they got the best of several worlds -
adapt key Savitar elements, manipulative evil Barry who would inherently know Team Flash's weaknesses, and the complex timetravel/multiverse stuff.

His defeat is most certainly way worse than his reveal.

At least they were good while they were there.

At least Savitar was good while he was there.
Outside of obviously Patty Spivot, those others were good in other seasons.

On that end, season 4 has been ok because Ralph is a solid new character.

 

[KevTravels]

how are the ratings compared to season 1?

 

[Primal Slayer]

Horrible.

 

[Herolee10]

It's not stupid and insulting for a woman to say that they share the burdens of being the Flash with their husband personally. Getting like 3-4 episodes where she has a central story in 1 season doesn't make Iris the main character.She doesn't. Most of his scenes were with Joe. Wally was moved to Legends to make way for Ralph. The writers wanted to do that. Iris being team leader has no infringement on Wally taking up a hero role. In fact, if that's what the show really wanted, they would continue to use Wally in that role to further prop up Iris while Barry's in prison, instead of a guy who has no relationship with her. The show has never pretended she was flash, a cop, or a scientist. But she is team leader. Whether that's forced is another issue, but she's the leader. No one said she gets extra credit, but she's still a hero, by the nature of helping to save people, like the rest of the group is. There's no competition in doing it.People don't need qualifications to be heroic and to work with a non legal group in helping people.And Ralph, Barry, Cisco and Caitlin. I don't understand why Iris being team leader makes you think that only Iris written for, when Ralph has had more character arc moments than her. Iris has had 4 episodes where she's had a real story in it this season and in 1 of those she was used to further Caitlin/Killer Frost's story. Caitlin is below Iris in the story avenue this season certainly, but in every season, but last season she has been. Not much has changed from the early seasons, except now Iris' stories when she has them have been tied into the main plot.

So if my wife managed to save her company from going bankrupt, without my assistance, I can claim credit over her achievement because we are married?

Have you ever seen the likes of Lois telling Clark that he isn't just Superman and how they are BOTH superman? And let's keep in mind that the character of Lois Lane has been known to contribute significantly towards aiding Superman's job as a hero than the likes of this show's version of Iris.

Iris may now share the burden that Barry carries after becoming his wife but having her express that sentiment by saying she is the Flash as well was stupid and just plain nonsense.

And while one doesn't need any qualifications to be considered a hero, you sure need some if you are to become the leader of a group of people that are protecting a city.

Iris has displayed zero skills that would qualify her to be Tram Flash's leader. Even if everyone wasn't available that still doesn't mean that the least qualified person should assume that role.