The Flash The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 8

[Legendver2]

I just realized that Zoom's plan is basically the same as Owlman's plan in the animated Crisis on Two Earths.

 

[zenith16]

ok I got this from CBR


"THE FLASH" RECAP: BARRY MAKES A DECISION THAT COULD CHANGE THE SERIES FOREVER

In the season two finale of "The Flash," Barry must race Zoom to protect the lives of his family and prevent the destruction of the multiverse.

Tonight's episode of ”The Flash,” titled "Race of His Life," brought to culmination the race that Barry has been running this entire season against Zoom, and what he has been running from his entire life: the death of his mother. While it seemed like his time in the speedforce helped him emotionally move past her death, the sudden death of his father showed Barry that he would never be truly able to see past that moment in his life when she died. While the the main race this week was a literal race against Zoom, Barry was running the race of his life which he decided to take into his own hands in the final moments of the episode. Harry and Jesse also made a tough decision at the end of the episode that will shape season three, and the man in the iron mask was finally revealed. There were a lot of satisfying moments in the episode, but it did not end at all as I had imagined. That final twist will change the direction of the show forever, and season three might look very different in the fall. It will definitely be hard to wait four months to see how everything plays out, especially that last scene. This episode was a tour de force in acting, writing, directing, stunt choreography, visual effects -- absolutely everything was on point -- so much so that the outcome of Barry's race against Zoom wasn't even the craziest thing that happened.

​

The episode kicked off right where last week concluded: with Zoom (Teddy Sears) standing over the dead body of Barry's (Grant Gustin) father Henry Allen (John Wesley Shipp). Zoom gloated over Barry, telling him that now Barry is just like Zoom. With Henry Allen dead, Barry laid into Zoom and a fight all over Central City ensued. This scene was very much a tribute to "Star Wars" and Luke Skywalker's struggle between using the light side of the force, or giving into his hatred and his anger by using the dark side. Zoom was even saying similar things to Barry about using his anger to beat him. At one point in the fight it seemed like Barry had won, but then Zoom killed his own speed mirage. How many times has Zoom killed his own self this season? After this Barry and Team Flash all grieved the death of Henry Allen. Wally thanked Barry for saving his life and apologized for Henry's death. While Barry and Iris (Candice Patton) shared a tender moment outside, Zoom challenged Barry to a race to see who really was the "fastest man alive." When Barry told Team Flash he was confident that he could beat Zoom the team completely freaked out. Then Wells (Tom Cavanagh) and Cisco (Carlos Valdes) discovered that Zoom only wanted Barry to run so he could use their speed to power up a device that could completely demolish every earth in the multiverse, except Earth-1. Joe (Jesse L. Martin) dissuaded Barry from joining the race, but Barry decided to run anyway. Unfortunately Barry's decision led to an intervention, and all of Barry's friends, Iris, Jesse (Violett Beane), even Caitlin (Danielle Panabaker) agreed to tranqualize Barry and imprison him in the pipeline so they could handle Zoom on their own. While their logic that he's too angry and dangerous was sound, this was a shocking move on their part. Barry is the only one with superpowers, he's a hero with a pure heart, and they locked him up. This was something extremely unexpected.

​

Unfortunately this Team Flash decision backfired on them, and Joe was thrown back to Earth-2 with Zoom. While the plan seemed to be working, with Caitlin pretending to tap into her dark side to lure Zoom towards her, he was able to grab Joe as he was pushed into the Earth-2 portal. This landed Joe in chains, imprisoned next to the mysterious man in the iron mask. While locked up in Zoom's lair, Joe was able to ask Zoom about the identity of the masked man. As many people had theorized, the masked man was the real Jay Garrick. While Zoom and Joe were on Earth-2, Wally (Keiynan Lonsdale) found out that his dad was taken and that Barry had been locked up at S.T.A.R. Labs. Wally was appalled that his friends and family not only shut Barry out, but thought that they could ever beat Zoom on their own. Wally let Barry out of the pipeline, and Barry sent a message to Zoom that he would race him if Joe was returned unharmed.​

Story continues below​

​

With the pulse device ready and the multiverse at stake, Barry and Zoom began to run. It didn't seem like Barry would be able to stop the pulse from destroying the earths even if he was faster than Zoom, until he created his own speed mirage. With one version of himself racing against Zoom, and one version rescuing Joe, he was able to literally be in two places at once. While Zoom was technically beating Barry's speed, he didn't account for Barry's speed mirage double to interrupt the polarity of the pulse weapon. Speed mirage Barry then sacrificed his life to destroy the pulse, and the real Barry then attacked Zoom. With the multiverse saved, all Barry had to do was kill Zoom and the nightmare would be over, but he couldn't do it. Thankfully he had some speed wraiths up his sleeve, who came and destroyed Zoom once and for all. Barry was reunited with Joe and his race against Zoom was finally over.

​

Barry's race with Zoom concluded with about five minutes of the episode life, which seemed a little strange. What other loose ends could this episode tie up now that Zoom was dead? This is where the big stuff happened. With Joe safe and Zoom gone, Team Flash was able to rescue the man in the iron mask. Finally we got to see who was under that mask. Drumroll -- it's the real Jay Garrick! Also known as Earth-3 Henry Allen! Wait, what? When Barry saw that the unmasked man standing before him was his father, or at least that man that looked his father, he completely freaked. Joe and Wells cleaned him up and got his suit back to him -- it was absolutely incredible to see John Wesley Shipp in a Flash suit again -- considering he was The Flash back in the 1990s. Harry and Jesse then both announced that they would be heading back to Earth-2, which led to a very tearful goodbye. It felt like the cast wasn't just saying goodbye to Wells, but to Tom Cavanagh, as it seems unlikely that he'll be returning as a series regular next year. Wells and Jesse then agreed to take Jay Garrick back to Earth-2 as well, with the hope that they could one day return him to Earth-3. The final moments of the episode focused on Barry and Iris' relationship. Despite Iris being ready to take the next step with Barry, Barry said that he was too broken and needed time to heal. They beautifully both said that they loved each other and shared a very sweet kiss. The episode could have ended here, but the finale had one more ace up its sleeve. As Iris went back inside the house Barry sped off down the street and surprisingly back to the night his mother was murdered. In last season's finale Barry went back to this night, but another version of himself told him to let her die. This time Barry was not going to let that happen, and he got between the Reverse Flash and Nora Allen, and saved her life. The version of himself from the season one finale who was watching from the door disappeared, his mother was finally saved, and the episode ended.

​

What does all of this mean going forward into season three? For anyone who has read the "Flashpoint" comic, when Barry goes back to save his mother he loses all his powers and his timeline is drastically changed. In that comic, Barry has to team up with Batman (who was actually Thomas Wayne, since in that timeline Bruce had died) to give himself his powers back. They partially played out this story line this season when Wells recreated the particle accelerator explosion to give Barry his powers back. This ending though could trigger a ripple effect for next season, which could leave Barry powerless. It could also change whether or not his father was imprisoned, if he ever became The Flash, if the Reverse Flash never killed Harrison Wells in the first place. It's hard to say what this decision will mean. Tom Cavanagh could actually be back next season playing the real Dr. Wells from Earth-1, which would be amazing, but what would that mean for all the other characters? Will Nora Allen be a series regular? Will the season start out with Barry living back at his parents house? If you have any theories on what this could mean for season three, please leave us your comments down below. Also let us know how this finale held up against season one's finale. One thing is for sure, seeing John Wesley Shipp in a Flash suit again was completely satisfying and now we can celebrate because Zoom is finally done terrorizing both Central City and Earth-2.
"The Flash" will return Tuesdays this fall on The CW.​

Discuss this story in CBR's TV/Film forum. | 1 Comments​

TAGS: grant gustin, carlos valdes, tom cavanagh, jesse l martin, candice patton, danielle panabaker, john wesley shipp, the flash, the flash tv, the cw, violett beane, teddy sears, keiynan lonsdale, todd helbing, aaron helbing​

 

[vantheman77]

If we don't get a Flashpoint Paradox for season 3, we may likely get the original timeline instead of the first season timeline.

For Flashpoint to happen, Arrow would have to be affected and we may have to watch their finale to see if there are any changes in their show.

 

[Kyle]

If we don't get a Flashpoint Paradox for season 3, we may likely get the original timeline instead of the first season timeline.

For Flashpoint to happen, Arrow would have to be affected and we may have to watch their finale to see if there are any changes in their show.

'Arrow' can change drastically in 'Flash' while not changing 'Arrow' series

 

[herolee10]

'Arrow' can change drastically in 'Flash' while not changing 'Arrow' series

That would require some careful planning because the events of Flash and Arrow takes place during the same time, thus it may be somewhat confusing and counterproductive to have Arrow air Season 5, where the events of its show still remains intact (unaffected by Barry's time travel), while having Arrow shown in Season 3 of Flash and showing things going all out of control.

 

[Legendver2]

It feels kinda lame if they keep bringing back Tom Cavanagh, but he keeps playing a new version of Harrison Wells, so they have to rebuild that relationship yet AGAIN. Gets kinda old -_-

 

[herolee10]

It feels kinda lame if they keep bringing back Tom Cavanagh, but he keeps playing a new version of Harrison Wells, so they have to rebuild that relationship yet AGAIN. Gets kinda old -_-

True, though they could always go about it where (in the new timeline) he already has an existing relationship with some of the members of Team Flash and it's just Barry that he has to build, yet another, relationship with.

 

[Kyle]

That would require some careful planning because the events of Flash and Arrow takes place during the same time, thus it may be somewhat confusing and counterproductive to have Arrow air Season 5, where the events of its show still remains intact (unaffected by Barry's time travel), while having Arrow shown in Season 3 of Flash and showing things going all out of control.

No. Not at all. Not even in the slightest.

Having 'Arrow' be impacted would make it a lot more complicated. On 'Flash' it would just be seen as Barry having a Back To The Future 2 experience or going to another Earth that looks like Freddy Kreuger designed it.

Showing an alternate 'Arrow' world on 'Flash' that isn't connected to 'Arrow' series would be the simplest option, thus hopefully they go the TVUniverse route since they have that option to go big. 'Arrow' already did this through showing a completely different alternate future in Legends of Tomorrow, it would basically be the exact same thing if they did a contained 'Flashpoint.'

 

[smallville fan]

What if the 4 show crossover that they are going to do is DCTV's version of Flashpoint?

 

[herolee10]

No. Not at all. Not even in the slightest.

Having 'Arrow' be impacted would make it a lot more complicated. On 'Flash' it would just be seen as Barry having a Back To The Future 2 experience or going to another Earth that looks like Freddy Kreuger designed it.

Showing an alternate 'Arrow' world on 'Flash' that isn't connected to 'Arrow' series would be the simplest option, thus hopefully they go the TVUniverse route since they have that option to go big. 'Arrow' already did this through showing a completely different alternate future in Legends of Tomorrow, it would basically be the exact same thing if they did a contained 'Flashpoint.'

But in the case of "Legends of Tomorrow", the future shown there was presented as an "potential future", one that was not set in stone. Plus, it took place 30 years into the future.

Whereas in the case of the "Flash", it's been established that any changes that Barry makes in the past will result in changes being made to the present. Not as an alternate present/future, but as the new and current one.

It wouldn't make sense for Arrow Season 5 to go about things as though nothing was different unless Barry's travel into the past wasn't an regular one.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

What if the 4 show crossover that they are going to do is DCTV's version of Flashpoint?

 

[Kyle]

But in the case of "Legends of Tomorrow", the future shown there was presented as an "potential future", one that was not set in stone. Plus, it took place 30 years into the future.

Whereas in the case of the "Flash", it's been established that any changes that Barry makes in the past will result in changes being made to the present. Not as an alternate present/future, but as the new and current one.

It wouldn't make sense for Arrow Season 5 to go about things as though nothing was different unless Barry's travel into the past wasn't an regular one.

Take the fan seat back and look at basic common sense logistics. You have viewers of Arrow, Supergirl, and Legends of Tomorrow who have never seen an episode of The Flash tv series. You are talking about multiple different teams of writers striving to achieve a consistency that keeps in line with one another. Now you're talking about throwing a lot of viewers into the dark and trying to make sure everyone is juggling their plates correctly.

And you are saying that all of that is EASY over having Flash alter his own timeline then like in the comics go back in time to re-alter the past so that nothing in the present changes (so that Arrow's timeline doesn't change). This isn't changing one thing then leaving it changed. This is saving a life then going back in time to not save that life thus you don't need any changes to that. By it's very nature it's contained and cyclical.

Hey, Flashpoint is my favorite comic book arc. I want this to be across multiple shows, hell I'd even love Gotham to be involved. But it is a joke in saying that altering all DCUTV shows is the "easy" route when it's the one that logistically requires the most work to pull off especially given the timeline doesn't need to in any way permanently change (meaning it's more or less a temporary tsunami for each show and a storm of the century to Make work). It would be the other shows bending to fulfill the promise of one show. Which I would love to see happen but anyone knowing logistics knows it is the more complicated option due to split viewership and especially split teams. This isn't talking what would be the coolest from a story point, it's what would be the easiest and hardest route to actually accomplish with split teams and split viewership.

From a fan point, altering all shows would be the best route. It's the route I want. But also knowing logistics, I know it's the hardest route to pull off weekly.

 

[herolee10]

Well I was actually thinking that one potential way that they could go about doing this is by having the events of Arrow Season 4 take place at a much later date. So assuming if Barry were able to, once again, change the timeline back to the way it was after whatever disaster falls upon him as a result of the Flashpoint Paradox before the midseason finale....then they could just say that the start of Season 5 for Arrow takes place after that event.

 

[Kyle]

Well I was actually thinking that one potential way that they could go about doing this is by having the events of Arrow Season 4 take place at a much later date. So assuming if Barry were able to, once again, change the timeline back to the way it was after whatever disaster falls upon him as a result of the Flashpoint Paradox before the midseason finale....then they could just say that the start of Season 5 for Arrow takes place after that event.

The thing with Flashpoint that makes it easy is it's cyclical. Flash changing the timeline before altered things because what he changed was kept. Here, Flash changes the timeline but later goes back to take it back. While in the comics it may have left impacts, I personally had no idea since I read it years after the New 52 started (and the animated adaptation does it that way as well - no lasting changes). Thus, it's very easy to explain why Arrow wasn't altered - because although Flash altered the timeline, it was temporary since he went back in time to take back the change he made which is what makes it easily contained: changing the timeline only temporarily before reverting it back.

Again, it is the cheapest option and easiest way out so I hope they don't go with it but thanks to the cyclical nature of Flashpoint it easily lends itself to being contained (because Barry undoes changing the timeline, thus there doesn't need to be any lasting changes to the show worlds outside of Barry being personally effected).

 

[Reek]

flashpoint or not... that ending was stupid.

Yay now we can start fresh and pretend the past 2 seasons didn't even happen!

 

[Kyle]

flashpoint or not... that ending was stupid.

Yay now we can start fresh and pretend the past 2 seasons didn't even happen!

Flash changes the timeline back after changing it, that's the whole arc and journey of Flashpoint. So it's like BTTF2 or It's A Wonderful Life. It's not starting over at all. It's a temporary nightmare that the Flash fixes to get back to the world we've spent the last 2 years in.

 

[Reek]

it seems more tiring than anything lol

 

[Kyle]

it seems more tiring than anything lol

To you, maybe. Not the majority of Flash and DC fans not at all since Flashpoint is one of the best known DC arcs that many have waited a long time to see adapted.

Bottom line is, you don't need to fear of having to start from scratch because the change isn't permanent. It's here to basically serve a story point showing Flash that although both of his parents are dead, what he has is still a lot to be more than thankful for.

 

[Reek]

I like flashpoint.

but the fact that supergirl and the **** that is Arrow will be involved... meh.

...and both his parents aren't dead anymore

 

[Kyle]

I like flashpoint.

but the fact that supergirl and the **** that is Arrow will be involved... meh.

...and both his parents aren't dead anymore

As said, to you. Vast majority here have shown excitement over seeing these properties get effected in one way or another. I'm pretty sure since the show ended you're the only one to not be excited to see how they handle the DCTVU Flashpoint on here.

 

[Reek]

Salty?

I can have an opinion without someone getting pissy. lmao.

Not a fan of supergirl or Arrow (anymore as this is the last season i will watch)

But go on.. cry about it.. the tears are tasty.

edit: "I'm the only one who isn't excited about the DCTVU Flashpoint..." when a ton of people have turned on Arrow and hate Supergirl.

 

[Dr Lee]

As said, to you. Vast majority here have shown excitement over seeing these properties get effected in one way or another. I'm pretty sure since the show ended you're the only one to not be excited to see how they handle the DCTVU Flashpoint on here.

I have to admit I'm a little bit apprehensive over the way the season ended... The ramifications are huge and it's too easy for them to **** it all up. Plus, are Arrow & Legends next season going to show the effects of this or is it only going to be visible on Flash? How bad will the rabid portion of the collective fanbases ***** & whinge when they don't bring certain characters back or break up certain pairings?

Too many questions, too little answers ATM....

 

[Marvel Knight]

I feel like the ideal time to do Flashpoint Paradox was last season during the finale.

Barry going back and changing things now just seems like a step backwards in development for the character.

I liked that he responsibly made the choice to let Nora die last season in order to protect the timeline.

 

[SpideyVille]

I feel like the ideal time to do Flashpoint Paradox was last season during the finale.

Barry going back and changing things now just seems like a step backwards in development for the character.

I liked that he responsibly made the choice to let Nora die last season in order to protect the timeline.

Doing it now makes way more sense creatively.

If they had done it last season, it would have been too predictable. Everyone would have said "I know where they are going with this." But they didn't, which generated some true intrigue as to where they were going with this vortex thing.

By doing it now, it's strong character development because it shows that Barry is just out of it. His Father's death just made him snap, and even though he didn't kill Zoom or Thawne, he is still in a really dark place, and it shows that he'd rather have his parents back, then everyone else. So it gives them a new dynamic to work with.

 

[Marvel Knight]

Doing it now makes way more sense creatively.

If they had done it last season, it would have been too predictable. Everyone would have said "I know where they are going with this." But they didn't, which generated some true intrigue as to where they were going with this vortex thing.

By doing it now, it's strong character development because it shows that Barry is just out of it. His Father's death just made him snap, and even though he didn't kill Zoom or Thawne, he is still in a really dark place, and it shows that he'd rather have his parents back, then everyone else. So it gives them a new dynamic to work with.

It shows him making mistakes that he should be above at this point. Him doing this last season would have been more organic with the rookie he was.

At this point, he knows the consequences of screwing with the timeline, but is doing it anyway for selfish reasons. Reminds me of Smallville when Clark kept making the same childish mistakes over and over again, I suppose to make him more relatable to the CW audience.

That being said, I get why they did this for the sake of it being an end of season 'twist.'

The best payoff this could have is to bring Tom Cavanaugh/RF back into the fold. His presence was missed this season.