The Flash The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 9

[Syncos]

But, why do they need a season long big bad at all? Why not do three or four completely unrelated ones? That way it doesn't get as stale.

I've said it a few times, but Flash actually works best for this kinda story.

The Rogues.

They've been known to work together in the past. Having each of them take a shot at Flash for a few episodes is a great delivery device. Then have them come together for a master plan for the last four episodes.

I think there needs to be -some- thread continuing through the season.

Agents of SHIELD did it really well this season.
The Darkhold. It was a single tie between Ghost Rider, LMD, Agents of Hydra etc. All for a number of episodes.

 

[MarvelKnight]

they do? they have a hard way of showing it.

Savitar mentioned his actual name only in passing when he was visiting team flash.

 

[Kirmit]

So has anyone come across a manip of Wally in The Flash suit yet?

 

[Thome216]

I think the formula is okay, as long as we get a compelling arch-villain and good mini-villains in between. Savitone seemed silly in some respects, what with the suit and all. I think the best villain so far was Zoom and that was before the Garrick reveal. Second was RF.
I really hope the Thinker will give them a good trial and he won't come off too campy.

 

[mqg96]

The most disappointing thing about Flash season 3 for me was the reveal of Savitar being way too late, which means you only get 3 episodes of seeing him out of his suit and 3 episodes to explain his backstory.

With Reverse Flash and Zoom's identities already being revealed by episode 9 or 15, this allowed the writers to give them a long origin story on how they came to be. We got really good flashbacks on how Reverse Flash lost his connection to the negative speed force and how he took Wells' identity. We saw flashbacks with Zoom's childhood and how he was traumatized by his father, then taken to a foster home. We learned that he committed over 20 murders prior to getting his powers, was sent to a psychiatric hospital, and put on an electric chair right before the particle accelerator went off on his earth.

We didn't get any flashbacks or more of a specific explanation on how Savitar came to be other than a brief explanation on how he was born as a time remnant and how this led to a bootstrap paradox. What's the story behind the philosopher stone and how did Savitar discover it? How did he recruit his acolytes and why does the stone give people powers from alternate timelines? Just staying the stone is "calcified speed force" isn't enough. Did Savitar build his suit before future Barry trapped him or while he was trapped in the speed force? Why didn't we get flashbacks (or flash forwards technically) on how the future team shunned him and why he went on that dark path? How did his lightning become white in his suit due to being trapped in the speed force for so long? Our Barry getting in the suit made his lightning stay a similar color (or red). There's so many unanswered questions we could have gotten had this reveal not been dragged out so long. Very disappointing.

 

[flashpo1nt]

I'm glad that Caitlin retained her metahuman powers. I hope they do something interesting with her next season. I presume that she's still a wanted woman for kidnapping Julian, so she'll have to operate out of the limelight. An anti heroine who reluctantly assists Team Flash from time to time would be good to see. And maybe they can give her an independent storyline, but I'm not sure what. I suppose she could try to hunt down Ronnie, but I'm tired of her storylines revolving around men. Maybe she could try to get her mother's energy generator invention thin up and running, ostensibly to sell to the highest bidder on the back market but she eventually has a change of heart and publicly shares her research / findings for the betterment of mankind?

Or maybe she roams the streets of Central City helping to defend citizens on a smaller scale - stopping thugs, but then robbing the thugs to pay for her own bills (those leather miniskirts and thigh high boots can't be cheap).

I think the cast needs to be seriously downsized. They can't have four speedsters on speed dial. Wally, Jesse and Jay all need to be written out. Not necessarily permanently, but they can't just pop in and out for no real rhyme or reason. They detract from Barry and make it implausible that Team Flash can't easily stop the majority of their villains. It's frustrating enough that Barry only remembers certain skills in limited episodes.

Barry needs to be happier and more optimistic like his season 1 self. And he needs to be less of an idiot. Barry and Iris shouldn't have any relationship drama and Iris needs an independent storyline. Future newspaper or not, maybe she should become a police officer since it would get her more involved with the storylines and her journalism career isn't really contributing to the series. Cisco has access to more research and information that Iris does at the newspaper.

Cisco definitely needs to return to his happy, pop culture referencing, geeky self.

I'd be happy for Harry to recur, but a season without a permanent Wells would be refreshing. Tracy Coull help to fill the void or they could always get Dr McGee to appear as well in an older mentor role. And the Pied Piper is still out there somewhere as a powerfully and brilliant ally.

i agree with your point about having 4 speedsters on the show it takes away from barry allen as the flash.

the problem already is they've made every other speedster faster or just as fast as barry with less experience, not zoom or reverse flash but wally, jesse, seem to be just as fast.

wally in the show has been portrayed to be faster than barry, the only difference is barry has more contol over his speed so why have barry in the intro say he's the fastest man alive when the show keeps making it seem wally is faster.

wally being just as fast takes away from barry even if barry usually is the one that saves the day, it would be nice to have barry come out of the speedforce in season 4 and the writers actually make it a point in showing that he's much more faster/powerful then wally or jesse but nope they sort of make him look slower, you would think with thawne's help and training and barry actually putting the effort into getting faster that he would have a significant edge over wally or jesse but they seemed pretty equal with the writers making wally seem faster.

 

[Syncos]

i agree with your point about having 4 speedsters on the show it takes away from barry allen as the flash.

the problem already is they've made every other speedster faster or just as fast as barry with less experience, not zoom or reverse flash but wally, jesse, seem to be just as fast.

wally in the show has been portrayed to be faster than barry, the only difference is barry has more contol over his speed so why have barry in the intro say he's the fastest man alive when the show keeps making it seem wally is faster.

wally being just as fast takes away from barry even if barry usually is the one that saves the day, it would be nice to have barry come out of the speedforce in season 4 and the writers actually make it a point in showing that he's much more faster/powerful then wally or jesse but nope they sort of make him look slower, you would think with thawne's help and training and barry actually putting the effort into getting faster that he would have a significant edge over wally or jesse but they seemed pretty equal with the writers making wally seem faster.

4 Speedsters on the show don't make Barry weaker. Hell, there's like 12 speedsters in DC comics. The Flash is still The Flash. The trick is to not have them always be there. The Flash family is a beautiful thing in the books when they show up to help. But they're not there for every fight.

They need to start doing this. Have Wally go protect another city (keystone?) for awhile or another earth. Jesse is already on Jays earth, maybe she can stay there for awhile. Bring them in once in awhile, and it will feel special when they're on screen.

Wally was never faster than Barry.

Wally was "Faster than Barry was at this point after getting his speed".
There was a period of self doubt where Barry thought Wally could BE faster than him to save Iris. Which didn't check out.

Wally being able to attain speed faster than Barry did actually makes perfect sense. Having the entire team flash there to teach him, while Barry was basically learning from scratch means he would learn faster.

 

[Dr Lee]

I don't think you need to ship Wally off somewhere else...just do what they did the other week and have Wally visiting Jesse off world and sometimes have Jesse visiting Wally here...

 

[Thome216]

I don't think you need to ship Wally off somewhere else...just do what they did the other week and have Wally visiting Jesse off world and sometimes have Jesse visiting Wally here...

Sounds good to me. I like when they all get together, but it doesn't have to be always.

Jess will prob go back to Earth 2 now that Jay is back, as Jay goes back to E3 and Wally protects E1.

 

[Set]

But, why do they need a season long big bad at all? Why not do three or four completely unrelated ones? That way it doesn't get as stale.

Someone (other than Cisco, who armed Captain Cold, Heat Wave and Golden Glider, way to go, Cisco!) equipping various Rogue-types with new advanced weaponry could serve as a sort of mastermind villain, without actually going after the Flash (or the Flash initially even knowing that he exists), perhaps using some purloined Dominator weapons and tech, to explain the sudden influx of higher-than-usual tech weaponry or gear.

That way, the Flash could zip along dealing with these new Rogues, and only mid-season or later make a connection that they have a supplier for these new weapons (and / or other gadgets, they don't all have to be using guns to commit crimes...) they are using. Instead of the Flash and team (and the bad-guy) all knowing about each other and then farting around and not doing anything about that for five months, there'd be an organic reason why they don't just cut straight to the large lady's lullaby.

 

[Guard82]

Based on the references dropped during the past season, it sounds like our next major overarching villain will be Clifford DeVoe, a.k.a. The Thinker. This would certainly fulfill the showrunners' stated plans to use a non-speedster Big Bad as the main threat for Season 4. This would be very interesting, especially since the Thinker is a classic villain who has been around since the Golden Age in the comics.

The Thinker has existed in the comics starting in the 1940s as an enemy of Jay Garrick, so there's a lot of history to draw upon. Since the Thinker used to be a lawyer in the comics, I could see the writers perhaps taking this angle and perhaps portraying DeVoe as a Central City assistant district attorney who secretly trying to take control of the city for himself. He could potentially be depicted as an insidious threat inside Central City's government, secretly stealing government money, financing supervillains, and assassinating rival city officials, using his natural strategic genius and some tech-based mental powers. Team Flash would discover what DeVoe is up to and would work to expose him to the public as a criminal. There's a lot of cool stuff they could do with the character that they haven't done with previous major villains on the show.

 

[flashpo1nt]

k well the writers time and time again have made remarks or hints wally is faster than barry.

yes wally got special treatment, he got his full powers instantly with the stone whereas barry's powers were still growing so therefore wally's starting point was already higher than barry's.

for example that is why if you compare barry's speed for at the 3 month mark and measure how fast he could go and compare that to wally's then wally is faster at that point, simply the stone gave him his full potential even he still needed training.

also wally had more people around him with better understanding of the speedforce and its power, whereas barry only had thawne and even though he learned alot from him, wally had the upperhand with even more knowledge and equipment surrounding him where barry had less.

I'm mixed on who's faster, people say does it really matter and i say yes. you can't have him saying he's the fastest man alive if he's not.

however there's other times barry seems to be faster, he did much better against savitar then the other speedsters, he seemed ahead of wally and jesse when they did the obstacle course, and also the time when barry phased, wally was so sure he would've beat barry if he hadn't phased through. but my guess is barry was holding back and the lesson was not about who's faster but on how to teach wally to use the phasing ability, then there's the time when barry joked with wally when he used him to go into the future saying "ill try to keep up to you".

i think they did enough to pump wally up but if your going to claim your the fastest man alive you need to back it up, if wally is an equal to barry in the show then in my opinion it takes away from barry allen as being the flash since thats what flash version the show is based on. hopefully barry comes back from the speedforce in season 4 and you know the writers add something in there where we all know barry has gotten faster/stronger leaving wally and jesse in the dust, lol.

 

[zenith16]

he lost race to barry and it was training session and the star lab team mostly saying none sense not was prove wally was faster ever. and even then there too many thing he doesn't know to capitalize on like ifther was a building in front of that turn won't help in slowing him down cause he didn't know how phase til after the train event. he's not faster. the star lab's team with joe and H.R. words mean nothing . and this how pretty put that all to rest since wally wasn't the one to end savitar or wasn't overly majorly useful .


I really hope he they qallo him to be founder on the titan's to lern humilty one which hurt this character inthe long run cause they made him egotistical on this show. and more important I can't stop hear this thing where they've shown he's not faster, it just boastful talk via other on the star labs team.

 

[mqg96]

he lost race to barry and it was training session and the star lab team mostly saying none sense not was prove wally was faster ever. and even then there too many thing he doesn't know to capitalize on like ifther was a building in front of that turn won't help in slowing him down cause he didn't know how phase til after the train event. he's not faster. the star lab's team with joe and H.R. words mean nothing . and this how pretty put that all to rest since wally wasn't the one to end savitar or wasn't overly majorly useful.

Are you talking about the opening scene in "Untouchable" when Wally had to learn how to phase through things?

Or was it the opening scene in "Wrath of Savitar" when Wally was getting visions of Savitar?

 

[zenith16]

Are you talking about the opening scene in "Untouchable" when Wally had to learn how to phase through things?

Or was it the opening scene in "Wrath of Savitar" when Wally was getting visions of Savitar?

the one where he learned to phase through things . it was the only race which wasn't really a race according to barry anyway. and we saw the bias via the writers in the star labs team wanting wally to beat barry.

It was just training through barry's eyes. and ever other time it was just the same with the writers. there's not thing there.

just false bosting ( it's alot like thor hammer and the being worthy , F that hamme. )just when they keep saying when barry started out doesn't mean that's how barry currently is there was not real race and no title that was taken like in track and field race. it's just the writers say crap and make the star labs team do for them .

It's time to drop it it didn't go any where. unless there a real race like the kind the comic's did between superman and wally and the crowd and camera are there to see them cross the finish line all this doesn't count . i and just cause it's it';s inthe start of show doesn't man any thing barry sadly self proclaimed him self that before realizing there are other meta's be side him self , alot that might be speedsters the rest of the public within the show don't know barry said this in steade of there being theme song.

It's not like Barry announced to them with in the show with in the entire planet in a overly braggy way. if he did then need's the taste slapped out of his mouth too for doing it. bragger's deserve that. ugh. you just don't go doing that.

 

[zenith16]

until barry does an actual race challenging the world and he has trophy for it that the world / planet seen him earn. the words about him being the fastest man alive mean's nothing. theme at start of the show is meaning less. self pro claimer's be damned.

 

[metaphysician]

People forget that Wally was a pretty unlikeable character when he first took over for Barry in the comics. Took time for people to warm up to him. He wasn't even that popular as a sidekick.

Just some perspective...

Eh, its not really the same problem. Its also a matter of the actor. Lonsdale isn't bad, but he really doesn't have the charisma to lead the cast. He might develop it with more time and experience at acting, but the show isn't able to wait 3-4 years for that.

 

[Avenging Angel]

Eh, its not really the same problem. Its also a matter of the actor. Lonsdale isn't bad, but he really doesn't have the charisma to lead the cast. He might develop it with more time and experience at acting, but the show isn't able to wait 3-4 years for that.

Sadly true, I like the actor but he doesn't have what Grant has. Same with Candice, I don't believe the genuineness of the characters. It seems like they are reading lines.

 

[Herolee10]

If anything, I hope Season 4 focuses a lot less on romantic ships (Barry and Iris/Wally and Jesse, etc).

I mean would it be so bad to have the crew not go back to work at STAR Labs? Why not just have Cisco become a new employee at CCPD as its top engineer when it comes to developing devices capable of stopping Meta-Humans?

I kind of wish that they would also explore the concept of the public starting to hate the idea of Meta-Humans, thus creating an Anti Meta-Humans group which would make it harder for Flash and good meta-humans in the city.

Just something to break the status quo that we've had for the last three freaking seasons.

With the exception of Barry's white and red emblems, there's really nothing that distinguishes one season from another one.

 

[Hotwire]

How do we think Barry will escape the Speed Force?

 

[zenith16]

How do we think Barry will escape the Speed Force?

it's to remove the stupid philosopher stone that he and jay put into itin the first place. it's the cause and both himself and future barry created it. the latter made it exist the the onewe fallow is trapped in it is the one that put the philosopher stone into the speed force. so remove it get barry out ofthe stone and destroy it . no toss cause you lazy destru with sun energy like eobard did with the spear of destiny

 

[Travesty]

And S3 is already up on Netflix. That was extremely fast.

 

[Kelly]

And S3 is already up on Netflix. That was extremely fast.

Since CW signed a new deal last year with Netflix, the seasons will come up about a week after their last episode from now on. That started about this time last year.

 

[Lord Valumart]

If anything, I hope Season 4 focuses a lot less on romantic ships (Barry and Iris/Wally and Jesse, etc).

I mean would it be so bad to have the crew not go back to work at STAR Labs? Why not just have Cisco become a new employee at CCPD as its top engineer when it comes to developing devices capable of stopping Meta-Humans?

I kind of wish that they would also explore the concept of the public starting to hate the idea of Meta-Humans, thus creating an Anti Meta-Humans group which would make it harder for Flash and good meta-humans in the city.

Just something to break the status quo that we've had for the last three freaking seasons.

With the exception of Barry's white and red emblems, there's really nothing that distinguishes one season from another one.

They did Cisco working with Joe a few times in series 2, didn't they? And they mentioned a task force a few times this series, but I don't remember if it ever came to anything.

But yeh, I'd rather see more CCPD stuff. Not every episode, but like a few sprinkle around where Barry at least has to do his job. Like the start of this series, but not compacted into three episodes at the start.

 

[Syncos]

If anything, I hope Season 4 focuses a lot less on romantic ships (Barry and Iris/Wally and Jesse, etc).

I mean would it be so bad to have the crew not go back to work at STAR Labs? Why not just have Cisco become a new employee at CCPD as its top engineer when it comes to developing devices capable of stopping Meta-Humans?

I kind of wish that they would also explore the concept of the public starting to hate the idea of Meta-Humans, thus creating an Anti Meta-Humans group which would make it harder for Flash and good meta-humans in the city.

Just something to break the status quo that we've had for the last three freaking seasons.

With the exception of Barry's white and red emblems, there's really nothing that distinguishes one season from another one.

And overall writing quality. Season one was superb.