The Flash The Flash season 3 episode 7 - "Killer Frost"

[marvelrobbins]

They need to hire Bruno Heller, so they can ditch this part of the canon and make Iris go Barbara Crazy Kean t:

well i admit i am part of snowbarry fandom.after seasons 1 and 2 they are trying way too hard for barry and iris.now maybe it's because I like danielle
much better but there is great chemistry which exsists between her and grant.

arrowverse screws up with cannon couples and makes un-comic canon ships
more appealing.Liked oliver much better with both Sara and Felicity than laurel but that's another discussion all together.

caitlin kissing barry was probaly writers having fun with snowbarry shippers.

they could change cannon and have barry and caitlin together after barry & Iris
break up.season 2 they dropped ball.you could have had barry & caitlin become close before they had iris & barry got together.

as for villains i think most saw julian as bad guy coming.

 

[zenith16]

She doesn't have a thing for Barry, that is just a Batman Returns homage. Killer Frost is also known for killing randos with a kiss.

Yes this is true all three women that have been called killer frost have always tried to kill and harm their victimes with a kiss this was just writers fallowing what tthey have been known for it's in each of their profile bio.


the first killer frost that was obessed with dr. Stein

Crystal Frost<<her bio[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

the other luis from the attack on archam suicid squad anime /game series

Louise Lincoln[FONT=&quot],<<here bio[/FONT]

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

This was a great looking episode and Smith did bring an energy to the proceedings. But when it comes to plot, and this episode was chock full O' it... Meh. It was overstuffed. And I didn't buy the turn by Snow at all or felt the build up to it was all that good either. And the Julian/Alchemy thing was... "Yeah. I figured."

This was the best executed episode in terms of the general look but as always, the writers fail the show. And they repeat themselves again. Flash gets the crap knocked out of him by an uber-powerful speedster? We've seen this before.

 

[Thome216]

10/10.

The Alchemy reveal is not all that it seems.

He wakes up in an empty hospital, then is suddenly in his empty office, where his Alchemy gear is conveniently in a drawer in said office that he's been splitting with Barry for weeks/months?

The reveal screamed nightmare sequence to me. Savitar was in Julian's dreams and controlling him somehow.

Savitar might not even exist in this universe/timeline since Barry reverted Flaspoint. But since he's a speedster he exists in the Speed Force and he's trying to escape it by using Julian to "fix" Flaspoint. Maybe that's why only Barry can see him?

If it's half as crazy as this I'm all in.

I'm hoping for something like this. Julian can still be a d**k and not be Alchemy. He can be the mundane d**k of the show. I want Alchemy to be somebody else.

But if he is, he could simply have told Barry to stay out of those drawers and left it locked.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

10/10.

The Alchemy reveal is not all that it seems.

He wakes up in an empty hospital, then is suddenly in his empty office, where his Alchemy gear is conveniently in a drawer in said office that he's been splitting with Barry for weeks/months?

The reveal screamed nightmare sequence to me. Savitar was in Julian's dreams and controlling him somehow.

Savitar might not even exist in this universe/timeline since Barry reverted Flaspoint. But since he's a speedster he exists in the Speed Force and he's trying to escape it by using Julian to "fix" Flaspoint. Maybe that's why only Barry can see him?

If it's half as crazy as this I'm all in.

Too convoluted.
This will be fun.

 

[Batmannerism]

To be honest this wasn't my favorite episode - and I was expecting a lot from Kevin Smith, as a guy who actually seems to get what makes superheroes tick.

I mean, Barry was utterly useless in all the action sequences - from getting trounced by Savitar to getting trounced by Killer Frost.... I mean, at the end of the previous episode he got blasted by Alchemy about four times in a row. He was a big red target and that was it.

I get that they can't make Barry invincible - but come on, there's no way he should be getting hit this much, given that the rest of the world in slow motion for him. I mean, at the start of the season/ end of last season he kicked seven kinds of **** out of the Reverse Flash, who's a serious badass.

Wally's cocoon moment was pretty ridiculous too - I mean, he wasn't in there long enough for us as an audience to be worried about him. The kid's good as Wally, and he adds something to the show, but he could have spent a whole episode in the cocoon, and saved his transformation for another episode, to build some tension.

I also get that Smith was trying to show us that Barry's real power is his heart - that he beat Killer Frost by being brave and showing her what friendship is all about. That was the best part of the episode, and while it was a bit heavy handed, it was nowhere near as offensively ridiculous as the "Martha " moment in B v S. I mean, I hope Snyder was taking notes.

Anyway, the one character who's really developed the most this season is Iris - she's gone from being an annoying distraction to a real asset to Barry and the team. It was never Candace Patton that annoyed me, just the way the character was written.

I suppose the real challenge for Flash writers is having main villains who aren't speedsters - haven't managed to crack that one yet. The problem with that is that Barry has to go through similar processes to beat them .....get faster. I have enjoyed the Reverse Flash as a guest-villain, both Cavanagh and Letscher have made him a good adversary - a lot better than Zoom.
I guess the other bit that's starting to get tired, is the "my enemy masquerading as my friend" plot, Wells in season 1, Jay/Zoom in season 2, and now Julian/Alchemy in season 3.

Okay, sorry, I'm complaining - I love Flash, it's a great fun show, but it ain't perfect. Still, I'll keep watching, and I'm really psyched for the Invasion crossover. They re-played the Flash/Arrow crossover from last year (with Vandal Savage), the other night. While parts of it were goofy and some of the Hawk people stuff was a bit painful, but otherwise it was great fun.

Anyway, I gave this episode a 7/10, it was good but I was really expecting more from Smith. Still say that "The man in the yellow suit" is probably the best episode of the whole show so far IMO.

 

[Thome216]

I think Barry would be willing to take some hits if it's dealing with a friend, especially if she's not really evil.

As for Savitar, he's a new villain and the hero is sure to get some lumps and bruises before he gets his measure. But after that, Savitar should start getting bruised up, although I hope it's not simply because Barry got faster.

Some of these guys, the only way to get them is to outsmart them and they need to do that more often.

 

[terry78]

Flash is like spider-man like that, a lot of his villains can't be beat by just brute strength or agility. You have to actually create traps to stop them.

 

[Batmannerism]

Flash is like spider-man like that, a lot of his villains can't be beat by just brute strength or agility. You have to actually create traps to stop them.

I think Barry would be willing to take some hits if it's dealing with a friend, especially if she's not really evil.

As for Savitar, he's a new villain and the hero is sure to get some lumps and bruises before he gets his measure. But after that, Savitar should start getting bruised up, although I hope it's not simply because Barry got faster.

Some of these guys, the only way to get them is to outsmart them and they need to do that more often.

These are very good points, and very true. Spidey certainly uses his brains much more than his super-strength and webs to beat his enemies.

I guess it has seemed like Barry has been little more than a punching bag ( kind of like when he first met Zoom )over the last two episodes - considering he took out the Rival in the first episode with very little assistance.

I think it's the inconsistency that bugs me more (Superman was like that in the 1980's, much as I loved John Byrne's work on Supes, under Byrne, he got his ass kicked left right and centre, Lobo almost killed him once - and then a couple of years later common sense reasserted itself and he punched Lobo into orbit - yeah, inconsistency bugs me a lot, which is why I struggle with Lobo especially, one day he's clobbering Superman and the next week Robin takes him out.....okay, have to stop here, this is turning into a rant ! Sorry everyone.

I suppose that what justifies the existence of team Flash (Cisco, Frost, Wells, Joe, Iris) is that Barry often needs their help to overcome villains.

And, as I said, I do like that ultimately he beat Killer Frost by being a friend, rather than with super-speed.

Still, it's getting to be a real pattern:

- barry meets new villain, gets his ass handed to him.

- barry has to rethink things, get a pep talk from Joe or Iris, and Cisco does some science stuff.

- barry defeats villain

Now I think they handled that well in season 1, with Reverse Flash, because the whole best-friend-is-the-villain thing was new and they revealed things gradually, and of course Cavanagh is great. Every appearance the RF made was great - especially when he kills Cisco in the alternate timeline.

But repeating that in season 2 and 3 (and not doing as good a job) is a bit much.

I guess one positive thing I didn't say about this episode is that Danielle Panabaker was great - the whole "Oh no I'm turning evil....." thing is hard to do, and it worked.

Still, I give it a 7/10.

 

[flashpo1nt]

is it just me or do the writers always make barry look like the weakest speedster yet he puts forth more effort to get or be faster.

when jessie first got her powers she was almost as fast as barry, and when they tested wally in episode 7 they said he was faster than barry was when he barry "first" got his powers, barry obviously has gotten faster since.

point being every speedster seems naturally faster than barry when he has to push himself to get faster, it seems he looks weak in comparison....how he can he say he's the fastest man alive when jessie and wally just get there powers and right out of the gate there almost as fast as barry who's been training for years, it would be nice if they writers would at least make barry significantly faster than jessie and wally, or at least show some type of specialty he has with the speed force that makes him considered the fastest or powerful speedster, seems now a days this show can star either of the speedsters.

 

[Bforbrigitta]

Wally's cocoon moment was pretty ridiculous too - I mean, he wasn't in there long enough for us as an audience to be worried about him. The kid's good as Wally, and he adds something to the show, but he could have spent a whole episode in the cocoon, and saved his transformation for another episode, to build some tension.

Ugh yes, with all my issues with this episode, this has got to be the one that irks me the most. Makes it seem like all the tension built up last episode (with Alchemy getting into Wally's head) just went to waste.

 

[Thome216]

Yeah, we know he is faster, but it wold be nice of the writers to reinforce that with more than just the opening monologue.

 

[Thome216]

Ugh yes, with all my issues with this episode, this has got to be the one that irks me the most. Makes it seem like all the tension built up last episode (with Alchemy getting into Wally's head) just went to waste.

With this one, I wonder if Joe's rash actions to get Wally out may have saved him. Obviously the cocoon is meant to transform the person so that they get their alternate reality powers, but I wonder if it is also meant to alter their mental state as well.

Not only do they get their powers, but they also go bad and Joe got Wally out before that happened.

 

[zenith16]

Yeah, we know he is faster, but it wold be nice of the writers to reinforce that with more than just the opening monologue.

think they were just saying cause in the books before barry came back it was wally that helped barry to come back and wally was proven to be the fastest speedster inthe books cause un like barry he didn't need the cosmic treadmill to travel through time or into the speed force and and wally was able to come back on his own. which barry couldn't. and wally came up further tricks to us his powers in creative ways



the problem is also what took place at the start of the flash tv series and as I said in the Candice Patton thread. the writers are making the mistake of saying how smart like the sam Rami's peter park from the spiderman movies is, but there's no evidence to back it up. no invention to his name. that's what happened here for the flash.

and that was the case for Barry as a scientist/csi til his guest star in super girl, where barry met Wynn and barry started to make gadgets with wynn to help super girl take down siliver banshee and live wire like those special ear plug buds and they reworked on that ghost buster trap device that made for live wire in season one and the fact barry created holding prisoner cells for meta humans in national city's police departments to hold both live wire and silver banshee there.

again that was the one the few times we saw Barry live up to the name of being a smart scientist/csi. before the writers of flash were too busy having barry overly concerned with his personal life that even his CSI work was over shadowed in season 1 and 2 and Cisco was Joe's personal CSI guy.

And there's that mistake with arrow where felicity who screwed up with the who killed Sara mystery and when she finally got it in her head to see Barry at star labs instead of having him doing the job with the DNA test work of the arrow that killed sara at the time, ofv which Oliver was running around like an idiot at the time prior in star city .


Which Barry's qualified for testing DNA cause he is a all around CSI guy. Felicity gave it to Caitlin who's not a geneticist she's a biologist. ( I guess those two professions are the same to the writers)

so others were doing what barry was supposed to do .

 

[Avenging Angel]

The alchemy subplot was so boring. They should have wrote more scenes with Killer Frost being a menace to the city.

 

[metaphysician]

One, the point of the plot wasn't for Killer Frost to menace the city. Adding in random scenes of her doing random evil would do the story no good.

Two, no Julian presence means no hospital confrontation. That would be throwing out the second best scene in the episode for nothing.

 

[haephestus]

Not a bad episode.

So, is Savitar literally a "future Flash" (i.e. a version of Barry from the future in Megatron cosplay)? I guess that could be somewhat interesting, perhaps a version of Barry from the Flashpoint universe who decided to just keep on time travelling to try and fix all of his mistakes - leading him to access previously untapped powers, but also leading him to considering himself to be a god (i.e. capable of rewriting any events that he doesn't like). That might tie in with Savitar's attempts to reactivate the Flashpoint timeline using Dr Alchemy to recreate all of the Flashpoint meta humans.

Or is Savitar actually Greg Grunberg's character since every time they add a new actor it appears to coincide with the introduction of a masked villain who is revealed to be that new actor.

I'll be honest - I don't understand where "Killer Frost" is coming from. Sure, both Cisco and Caitlin saw "evil" versions of their metahuman selves from Earth 2. But, why do they necessarily correlate the use of their metahuman powers with becoming evil, especially when one of their best friends uses his metahuman powers to be a hero? I could kind of understand what they were doing with Magenta since it was her Flashpoint personality seemingly overwriting her Earth 1 personality.

But, Caitlin's personality isn't being overwritten by "Killer Frost" from Flashpoint, Earth 2 or anywhere else. She's just developing her metahuman powers. Unless they're suggesting that Caitlin has multiple personalities, but if so, that's something that should be clarified and addressed in depth. It all just seems nonsensical.

Unless they're trying to assert that almost all metahumans naturally "turn" evil as a result of acquiring their powers? That is somewhat supported by the events of The Flash since 90% of the metahumans on the show decide to use their powers for "evil" purposes, instead of simply carrying on like usual or becoming a hero like The Flash, Kid-Flash, Jesse Quick, Firestorm, Vibe, alternate Pied Piper (?) and maybe Plastique?

It's all a bit weird. Whatever they're doing, I hope that Caitlin simply learns to use her powers instead of wearing the power dampening cuffs at all times. Fingers crossed, she could even potentially become ... Frost Bite or Snow Queen or take on some other heroic identity.

 

[Dark Raven]

If Caitlin hooked up with Oliver she'd be Snow Queen.

 

[haephestus]

well now that barry's has quite being CSI. yup they really need to reopen star labs to the public and do that thing with Caitlin as I suggested and open that center for parnormal studies as an extension and help those meta's that just need help and don't want to be criminals and seeing she 's a victim and star labs is responsible for creating it only makes sense .

Fingers crossed! Barry did inherit Wells' entire fortune, including STAR Labs, his awesome house, etc.

So, there doesn't appear to be anything stopping them from actually trying to do something good with STAR Labs, including publicly and openly partnering with the police department when it comes to investigating metahumans (i.e. is Julian really their best option for a dedicated metahuman investigative specialist), helping people who discover that they're metahumans and who don't want to become evil, helping to rehabilitate the various metahumans in the metahuman prison who may not actually be "evil", but are simply being influenced by their powers in the same way that Caitlin is influenced to become Killer Frost, commercialise some of the technology that they frequently come up with to defeat baddies, start working on GIDEON since Barry apparently invented artificial intelligence, despite the fact that he's never really shown an interest in that area, etc.

It definitely has some interesting storyline potential, although I can see it all being reversed within a week or two with Julian being imprisoned, dead or leaving the police department and Barry getting his old job back.

As an aside, maybe Barry didn't actually inherit that much from Wells. If Barry was a millionaire / billionaire, then why would he need to live with Cisco. Unless that is just evidence of Barry's co-dependence, although he's presumably moved out since the revelation about Dante's death? Then again, Barry presumably has enough money to fund STAR Labs, including paying Caitlin and Cisco an ongoing salary and paying for the upkeep and maintenance of STAR Labs (unless he does all of that himself using his super speed)?

 

[Thome216]

I don't think Caitlyn has a multiple personality disorder. I think her powers just numb her emotions, making it easier for her to do things out of the ordinary for her. It's closer to having a schizoid personality disorder.

 

[zenith16]

Fingers crossed! Barry did inherit Wells' entire fortune, including STAR Labs, his awesome house, etc.

So, there doesn't appear to be anything stopping them from actually trying to do something good with STAR Labs, including publicly and openly partnering with the police department when it comes to investigating metahumans (i.e. is Julian really their best option for a dedicated metahuman investigative specialist), helping people who discover that they're metahumans and who don't want to become evil, helping to rehabilitate the various metahumans in the metahuman prison who may not actually be "evil", but are simply being influenced by their powers in the same way that Caitlin is influenced to become Killer Frost, commercialise some of the technology that they frequently come up with to defeat baddies, start working on GIDEON since Barry apparently invented artificial intelligence, despite the fact that he's never really shown an interest in that area, etc.

truth betold it's the best move for the show and best use of star labs.

as to barry being scientist it was shown on super girl where he invented special ear plug buds with WYnn to battle silver banshee and help win recreate that ghoster buster trap made for liver wire and the fact that he help make speacial
track with winn to track down live wire and created meta human holding cells for national city's police departments which was the most creative we've seen barry as as Scientist ever.

It definitely has some interesting storyline potential, although I can see it all being reversed within a week or two with Julian being imprisoned, dead or leaving the police department and Barry getting his old job back.

As an aside, maybe Barry didn't actually inherit that much from Wells. If Barry was a millionaire / billionaire, then why would he need to live with Cisco. Unless that is just evidence of Barry's co-dependence, although he's presumably moved out since the revelation about Dante's death? Then again, Barry presumably has enough money to fund STAR Labs, including paying Caitlin and Cisco an ongoing salary and paying for the upkeep and maintenance of STAR Labs (unless he does all of that himself using his super speed)?

yeah if you remember I got into a heavy disscussion with other posters about that and I mentioned the wealth part. and had a real life lawyer of poster come in of which I had clarify why they had to litteraly had have eobard say he gave his wealth .

causealot of that isn't made clear and still dangling even spider aziz beside me , is bothered if barry has any of the money to keep paying for the electric bills. it's just not clear if he has the wealth due to what you stated among other thing's.


it happened in the thread of The Flash season 3 episode 6 - "Shade" (

4 )


thand writers just leave as if people won't notice or care cause they them selves don't. but other people inthe animated and anime and other place like to deal with so questions won't be asked.

it's weird of the live action show writers. but that's how things are

 

[Avenging Angel]

One, the point of the plot wasn't for Killer Frost to menace the city. Adding in random scenes of her doing random evil would do the story no good.

It's not random since the title is Killer Frost. It feels like it was just a tease for what's to come. It was good but it would have been cooler to have her go darker.

 

[metaphysician]

It's not random since the title is Killer Frost. It feels like it was just a tease for what's to come. It was good but it would have been cooler to have her go darker.

Something can be "cool" and also be a terrible idea. The writers shouldn't be making plot decisions based on what is "cool", but based on what advanced the overall story and characterization.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Loved this episode, Sagittarius looks awesome, looking forward to seeing more.

Killer Frost was great, Danielle was superb in this episode and fir me it was really emotional seeing her lose control and hurt her friends. I actually really liked her calling Barry out a few times as well.

Best episode in a while for me.