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Discussion in 'The Flash' started by KillerMcQueen, Nov 6, 2016.
I was thinking the same thing. It seems to be an obvious misdirection.
I have a feeling we might still see alchemy be the big villain at the end of the season.
Savitar confuses me. He talks about his acolytes "bringing him back" or whatever, but he's clearly there, beating the tar out of Barry.
I have a feeling that Alchemy is more clever than we've been shown, and is manipulating Savitar into giving him more power some how.
That being said, Savitar actually explains Alchemy's knowledge of Flashpoint. If Savitar is as entwined with the speed force as he claims, a "speed god" than perhaps he is well aware of all the events of Flashpoint and feeding knowledge to Alchemy.
Also, wtf. The alchemy costume was just there, at the CSI lab in the bottom drawer of a cabinet? Damn Barry. Some Investigator. Maybe you really shouldn't be on the police force.
I really dug Kevin Smith's direction on this ep. It felt a little more....I guess vibrant.
Yeah it was stupid that Julian apparently just keeps the Alchemy costume in a cabinet draw, in the CSI lab. Wow, its sure lucky him that NO ONE looks in said draw apparently.
Really good episode, Kevin Smith should direct episodes more often.
I thought Savitar was pretty menacing early on, but I hope Alchemy is the real big bad.
Speaking of Alchemy...Everyone saw that coming, but like others have said, maybe it's a red herring. Especially if Alchemy was calling out to Julian.
I'm thinking it's gonna take all of Barry, Jessie and Kid Flash to take down Savitar. Maybe Killer Frost too.
me too ... he does not even appear human
he is gigantic, and the way his mouth appeared to be when he oppened it in this episode seemed a lot ... not human ...
yet, he is a speedster ... or at least appears to be ... so he cant a a robot or something like that
he could be an alien ... but that just seems like a strange thing to do ...
my guess is he is a cyborg ... perchaps even dante, cyberneticaly enhanced after his accident ...
but I think savitar is someone new, and dante is alchemy
The speedforce created his costume, he is a human under all that.
Maybe Julian is the only one with a key to that cabinet that has the Alchemy suit?
I think Killer Frost will be full evil by the end of the season.
I'm thinking the finale will be Alchemy and Savitar vs Jay, Barry, Wally and Jessie.
This ep made me wanna ship Barry and Cait for some reason.
Also, the Alchemy reveal reeks of the Prometheus "reveal" last week, so it may very well be a red herring.
The more I think on this, they may go the sympathetic route with Julian.
Perhaps Julian was Alchemy in Flashpoint. And Savitar is allowing the flashpoint version of Alchemy to manifest or manipulate Julian. "Taking over his body" or otherwise making him a pawn. He did seem to be actively fighting against it, and it did sound to me like it was Alchemy talking to him not Savitar.
Just a theory. but the regular Julian might end up helping fight off Alchemy and Savitar in the end.
I felt exhausted watching this episode, so I couldn't enjoy it as much as I wanted to.
you mean ... like daniel west !?
could be ... his armor could have been created from a plane, the same way daniel´s was created from a car
Good episode. I did have a few obvious issues with it though, most of which have already been mentioned.
Just to add on:
- I was kind of hoping for Cisco to be the bridge between Killer Frost and Caitlin's humanity; their friendship has shaped up to be one of the strongest relationships on the show and more emphasis on that could've given the episode more heart, not that it ended up lacking in it too much. In hindsight though, I understand that they seemed to want to show that Barry resolving her cold-heart issue was one way to redeem himself for changing the timeline and affecting her.
- Wally got out of the biotomb way too quickly, and there was so much going on in the episode that it ended up getting set aside with only brief and overly simplistic scenes. I was expecting some kind of problem, either with his physicality or mental state (As a consequence to being prematurely... Ejected) or at least for him to be in the fuge state until the end of the episode. Then he just starts zooming around in the speed lab feeling totally awesome and totally fine! All that tension build up last episode with Wally progressing into a darker state of mind seems kind of put to waste. Hopefully this just manifests in a later episode and they deal with the Alchemy stuff later. Pushing him right into Kid Flash training free of troubles would seem like sloppy writing.
- Barry's now quit his job, does Iris even still have one? She was a glorified lawn ornament in this episode. On its own, her heart-to-heart with Barry was really nice, but it was literally her only function this episode besides standing around the lab looking solemn. I actually really like WestAllen and the Iris character as portrayed by Patton, but I really hope they don't just establish from now that her major purpose is to be Ms Fix-It-With-A-Pep-Talk. So much potential and so chronically underutilised.
8/10 because the points brought up by Caitlin about Barry's mum, Eddie and Ronnie were too good. A lot of (network) shows tend to retcon past details like that, or just forget about them altogether in order to quickly move on. Kudos to the writers for wanting to tie up those ends.
The whole point of Cait's arc in this episode was to show that she wasn't evil, so I highly doubt they're even going anywhere near that route.
this episode was intense but something has been bugging me for awhile. Sense when does flash need help fighting bad guys in other incarnations he never asked for help, he just fights crime his own way I was just so curios with that notion.
Pretty sure you commented on a number of previous episodes in the past two years.
It's the Greg Berlanti formula for these shows handling titular characters.
Hero gets help from behind the scene sidekicks who know he/she and alterego because....
And hero too often can't think of plans on their own, and need to rely on their behind the scenes friends to act as video game hints on how to do things.
Yeah Caitlin's whole arc this season is being terrified that she was destined to turn evil just because of her KF powers. And here, Barry gets a measure of redemption for, well causing this whole mess in the first place, by helping her realize that that isn't so. So having her go evil anyway would make no sense now. She can still struggle with her powers sure, but not as a villain.
Also Barry was prepared to risk his own life on the belief that she couldn't ultimately bring herself to kill him because she's a good person. So again, having her go evil anyway would make no sense after that.
I think you're giving Berlanti too much credit on this one.
That part of Arrow came from the "New 52" version of that character. But this trope with Flash is far from new. In the 90s TV series he also worked with a STAR Labs scientist. Also a rag tag group of friends who individually found out his secret one way or another.
It's basically just a TV trope. Place smart exposition character(s) in to explain the story as needed. Smallville did it, The Berlanti shows do it, Agents of SHIELD does it (with Fits and Simmons being the exposition points).
The Caitlin story arc was very neat and very emotional. Kevin Smith is firing on all cylinders once again. The episode had a lot of pathos and character drama, and Danielle Panabaker was as great as ever.
While I liked the episode, I do feel like the show in general seems to kinda be walking in place and that something is missing from the series this season. Then again, the same thing happened to Arrow after season 2 and its never gotten it back.
I'm really not all that impressed by the new Speeder bad who , to me, just seems like another variation of Reverse Flash and Zoom though less interesting.
As far as the Caitlin thing goes, I actually preferred it when you had an earth two KF and good Caitlin because it meant you could have your cake and it without having to turn good Caitlin into the villain then try to go through hoops trying to have her be both villain yet ally when they suddenly needed her.
In a weird way ,from a story telling pov, I feel like they probably would have been better off having Flashpoint for the second season and actually have Barry save his mom in the first finale while saving alot of the earth two/ Zoom stuff for this season.
If he is not its founder, then he sure loves using it
I remember this, but for this universe they upped that bit, more than marginally.
Well, others can't see him, like Caitlin and Joe, so maybe he isn't fully present somehow.
It's highly possible that his grudge against Barry is really against himself, yet controlling himself in order to stop is something he does not have the will or strength for. But he can express that against Barry, and in doing so feel like he is fighting his own demons.
I thought that was a pic of Earth 2's Killer Frost.
I'd say pushed to the side in order to get the mission done. They're still friends, but trust has to be rebuilt, and as this last ep shows, Cisco is more than willing to do that. Their friendship should remain strained for a while yet.
That could be another reason why he would want the lab all to himself. He seemed very protective of his domain.