The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 7

[Docker2.0]

Its funny looking at how Fox have handled it, from saying that they were planning a unified universe to saying that the two franchises were incompatible and now back to doing crossovers.

A blind man can see they didn't fit from the jump....................but not Fox. They should have just tried to work with Marvel and see where it got them instead if playing hard ball.

 

[Mr.M]

There is no possible way this thing will turn a profit at the box office. Who is the draw? MBJ? They have a nice little cast, but no brand names. Kate Mara has done nothing since House of Cards and this won't help her career at all. The actors and even the director will probably be washing their hands of this and long distancing themselves as they move on with their careers. At the end of the day, Fox just doesn't have the horses in the race to make a good film.

The only wild card is Trank. Maybe he absolutely nails this thing with limited resources. But I don't give him the benefit of the doubt after one successful endeavor. I firmly believe he is in over his head and Fox has given him nothing to work with.

 

[Docker2.0]

Sadly I think you are wrong. This thing is made dirt cheap and as bad as I want this to flop, with the Marvel logo on it, some one will see it. I think it will make around $60M Dom at least. Sad but true.

 

[Dark Raven]

I can see in a few years time, or even later next year, when there are the Golden Raspberry Awards, that MBJ or Teller or someone else will be doing a similar acceptance speech like Halle Berry for Catwoman. She herself acknowledges that the movie is awful and even mocks it as well. The FFINO cast will probably eventually talk about what a piece of **** the film was and how they were doing nothing on set, which wasn't even a set.

Then you'll get that same author from Newsrama who begged people to give FFINO a chance writing an article titled "Why Trank's FF is the worst comic book movie of all time" as if he always thought that all along.

 

[Dr Tactics]

Sadly I think you are wrong. This thing is made dirt cheap and as bad as I want this to flop, with the Marvel logo on it, some one will see it. I think it will make around $60M Dom at least. Sad but true.

But even if it makes that, its still a flop. International BO spits are 50% at best and domestic theater to Production companies is a weekly sliding scale.. It can still flop.. Trust

edit: And it would have to make most of that 60 mill dom in the first two weeks. After that bad word of mouth you may be generous on that number

 

[Docker2.0]

I hope you are right but let's be real: the GA is stupid. How do you think Michael Bay is still in business? Or Megan Fox is still doing box office movies and not porn? I've seen better crap in my toilet than those two working on a movie together.

 

[Xrathe]

Michael Bay makes big budget summer-time movies with huge special effects budgets that the general public will want to go see simply for the eye candy.

None of that is going to apply to the FF reboot.

They're not staying true to the source material, they have no big names attached, they have a very small budget, and the would-be fan base for this movie already hates the thing.

Everything that's been written about this thing is "Chronicle with the Fantastic Four." If it wasn't for the extremely low cost to make Chronicle that thing would have been a complete bomb. Factor in the high cost of the SFX to do the FF superpowers and this thing will be lucky to break even and if they don't show their powers at all the word of mouth will kill this thing out of the gate.

 

[Spiderine]

This FF movie is not going to have the big special effects extravaganza that Bay sells to the masses. And given that there will already be a couple of superhero films out next year before FF hits theatres that will have connections to one another......AOU and Antman.....FF will be a loner. And the GA will probably treat it that way. Remember its still a reboot of a failed franchise. Whatever few people see it, and then WOM gets out it will be over.

 

[pavlov]

Great post!!!

Uhmmm. Yeah. I was asking for proof that Fox "doesn't care about the franchise" and not how they are not being faithful to the source material. But whatever.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Uhmmm. Yeah. I was asking for proof that Fox "doesn't care about the franchise" and not how they are not being faithful to the source material. But whatever.

Open your friggin eyes. Take a look at how they've bungled every last detail of this franchise since the early 2000's. Observe the half-assed effort they've slapped together with this third attempt. Witness the outright contempt they've shown for the fan community. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that treating this property with the respect it deserves is in no way a priority for them. They simply want to pump out another quickie piece of crap so the reversion date on the license resets. It's clear as day to anyone who doesn't have their head buried in the sand.

Studios who put together good films and know it advertise those films, and try to drum up excitement for them. Studios who squeeze out turds try to keep everyone from smelling them as long as possible, and Fox has hidden this one away like it's the remnants of a frat party at Taco Bell.

But oh, yeah. Whatever.

 

[pavlov]

oh I'm sorry. I didn't know you were in the TPTBs' board meetings to discuss this strategy of theirs - especially knowing that CBMs are in full boom right now, the best thing they can think of is to just crap out another movie for the sake of retaining the rights?

I'm not sure if that makes any business sense. I know the comic book fans are disgruntled but maybe things can be discussed more objectively here.

IMO I think Fox is on a roll with their current franchises (Xmen, Apes, etc.) and clearly their forté are films with darker and more mature tone

 

[Whiskey Tango]

oh I'm sorry.

Apology accepted. Happens to the best of us.

 

[pavlov]

objectivity here is apparently too much to ask for. Ok bye. Good luck on your hating.

 

[starscream22]

Apology accepted. Happens to the best of us.

LOL @ preaching about objectivity while ignoring everything that points toward FOX's gross negligence and inactivity regarding this reboot.

So does being neutral or open minded mean just ignore all logic and common sense for the sake of hoping Fox gets it right while doing everything tied to this reboot wrong?

NO!

Tell you what, I'll show objectivity for every CBM releasing in the next 6 years that isn't this reboot. So where does that put me at, like 98% objectivity overall...? Cool, you're welcome.

 

[Docker2.0]

Apology accepted. Happens to the best of us.

I don't know why but this made me almost choke on my coffee. LMAO!

objectivity here is apparently too much to ask for. Ok bye. Good luck on your hating.

Well look at the title of this thread. It's basically about people voicing their disdain for this film. I'd expect very little positivity to come out of it.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Uhmmm. Yeah. I was asking for proof that Fox "doesn't care about the franchise" and not how they are not being faithful to the source material. But whatever.

Oh good lord. Do we really have to got through all this again?

1. They hired an inexperienced director whose one other film had a budget of 12 million.
2. They didn't put that director under contract to do more than one film.
3. They hired a script writer who had never done a script before.
4. They haven't hired any high-profile actors.
5. The budget is almost certain to be lower than any other Comic Book film in recent memory.
6. They didn't do so much as present a poster at Comic Con.
7. They haven't even released a logo yet when every other moderately serious release of 2015 has already done so.

I could go on and on, but I don't really have the time or patience to repeat for the 300th time the things we've been discussing on here for the past few years.

How about this. Show me one, just one, piece of evidence that they do care about this franchise as anything more than a minor film.

 

[Dark Raven]

Oh good lord. Do we really have to got through all this again?

1. They hired an inexperienced director whose 1 other film had a budget of 12 million.
2. They didn't put that director under contract to do more than one film.
3. They hired a script writer who had never done a script before.
4. They haven't hired any high-profile actors.
5. The budget is almost certain to be lower than any other Comic Book film in recent memory.
6. They didn't do so much as present a poster at Comic Con.
7. They haven't even released a logo yet when every other moderately serious release of 2015 has already done so.

I could go on and on, but I don't really have the time or patience to repeat for the 300th time the things we've been discussing on here for the past few years.

How about this. Show me one, just one, piece of evidence that they do care about this franchise as anything more than a minor film.

No!! That's why I said that a thread should be stickied at the top of this forum by a mod so people don't have to keep typing it out every time for some new "objective" person who can't look objectively at all the evidence and see the way Fox are treating the FF.

Call the thread what you like: How Fox are mistreating the FF, how Fox aren't being faithful to it, etc. Whatever it's called, the idea is still the same. It's just this list that people have typed out over and over again and then someone else who hasn't seen it will demand to know what evidence there is that exists. That's all the thread needs to be - that list. No discussion. It can even be a locked thread with just that one post with the list, similar to the forum rules at the top. Just so people can be referred to it easily. I'm quite serious here.

If someone has that list that someone (maybe Willie) typed out before and people added to it, maybe that can be submitted to a mod for stickying.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

No!! That's why I said that a thread should be stickied at the top of this forum by a mod so people don't have to keep typing it out every time for some new "objective" person who can't look objectively at all the evidence and see the way Fox are treating the FF.

Call the thread what you like: How Fox are mistreating the FF, how Fox aren't being faithful to it, etc. Whatever it's called, the idea is still the same. It's just this list that people have typed out over and over again and then someone else who hasn't seen it will demand to know what evidence there is that exists. That's all the thread needs to be - that list. No discussion. It can even be a locked thread with just that one post with the list, similar to the forum rules at the top. Just so people can be referred to it easily. I'm quite serious here.

If someone has that list that someone (maybe Willie) typed out before and people added to it, maybe that can be submitted to a mod for stickying.

And in fairness, we should offer a two lists. One good and one bad. Unfortunately, the good list would be pretty short.

I honestly consider myself to be objective, and four years ago, I was excited about the possibilities. But I can't ignore everything we've seen over the past four years. And while I still consider myself objective, open minded and hoping for some good news . . . there simply isn't any.

 

[Spiderdevil]

Oh good lord. Do we really have to got through all this again?

1. They hired an inexperienced director whose one other film had a budget of 12 million.
2. They didn't put that director under contract to do more than one film.
3. They hired a script writer who had never done a script before.
4. They haven't hired any high-profile actors.
5. The budget is almost certain to be lower than any other Comic Book film in recent memory.
6. They didn't do so much as present a poster at Comic Con.
7. They haven't even released a logo yet when every other moderately serious release of 2015 has already done so.

I could go on and on, but I don't really have the time or patience to repeat for the 300th time the things we've been discussing on here for the past few years.

How about this. Show me one, just one, piece of evidence that they do care about this franchise as anything more than a minor film.

Hmm lets see

1. They hired an inexperienced director whose one other film had a budget of 12 million. -Marc Webb
2. They didn't put that director under contract to do more than one film. -Again Marc Webb and TASM2
3. They hired a script writer who had never done a script before- Plenty of CBMs around with inexperienced Script writers,IM1 for example
4. They haven't hired any high-profile actors.-Agreed but they are talented nonetheless
5. The budget is almost certain to be lower than any other Comic Book film in recent memory.Agreed
6. They didn't do so much as present a poster at Comic Con.Agreed
7. They haven't even released a logo yet when every other moderately serious release of 2015 has already done so.Agreed

But the final three points hold true for 'The Wolverine' aswell,they did very little marketing of it and all we had for a long time was a poster,but that movie turned out fine

 

[Spiderdevil]

One thing is clear,absolutely no one has any hopes for this movie meaning even if it a decent one,it will get very good reception

If Trank does pull it off,it could easily turn out to be a well made CBM,just not with as much CGI and fight scenes

 

[Dark Raven]

Hmm lets see

1. They hired an inexperienced director whose one other film had a budget of 12 million. -Marc Webb
2. They didn't put that director under contract to do more than one film. -Again Marc Webb and TASM2
3. They hired a script writer who had never done a script before- Plenty of CBMs around with inexperienced Script writers,IM1 for example
4. They haven't hired any high-profile actors.-Agreed but they are talented nonetheless
5. The budget is almost certain to be lower than any other Comic Book film in recent memory.Agreed
6. They didn't do so much as present a poster at Comic Con.Agreed
7. They haven't even released a logo yet when every other moderately serious release of 2015 has already done so.Agreed

But the final three points hold true for 'The Wolverine' aswell,they did very little marketing of it and all we had for a long time was a poster,but that movie turned out fine

That's a severely abridged list that Willie Lumpkin has typed out which goes into the briefest of details. If you were to respond to the real thing which people have put forward time and time again there are about 30 points or more.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Hmm lets see

1. They hired an inexperienced director whose one other film had a budget of 12 million. -Marc Webb
2. They didn't put that director under contract to do more than one film. -Again Marc Webb and TASM2
3. They hired a script writer who had never done a script before- Plenty of CBMs around with inexperienced Script writers,IM1 for example
4. They haven't hired any high-profile actors.-Agreed but they are talented nonetheless
5. The budget is almost certain to be lower than any other Comic Book film in recent memory.Agreed
6. They didn't do so much as present a poster at Comic Con.Agreed
7. They haven't even released a logo yet when every other moderately serious release of 2015 has already done so.Agreed

But the final three points hold true for 'The Wolverine' aswell,they did very little marketing of it and all we had for a long time was a poster,but that movie turned out fine

That's a severely abridged list that Willie Lumpkin has typed out which goes into the briefest of details. If you were to respond to the real thing which people have put forward time and time again there are about 30 points or more.

True. And every problem with this film can be explained away individually. Every element of the worst film ever made can be compared to a great film that had that single element (but also many other good ones).

The problem with this film is there are very few positives (Top of my list is Josh Trank and he's a wild-card at best).

And the question at hand isn't "might this film be good?", it could defy the odds and end up better than we expect (as Spiderdevil touches on, it would be almost impossible for it not to meet or exceed current expectations.)

The question was "Does the studio care about the film (franchise)?" and I have yet to see one solid bit of evidence to indicate the studio has faith in this film or has been willing to invest more than the bare minimum.

I keep asking for someone to show me something good rather than arguing the bad things might not be as bad as they look. But nobody seems to be able to offer anything other than arguments that the bad might not be terrible.

 

[Dark Raven]

True. And every problem with this film can be explained away individually. Every element of the worst film ever made can be compared to a great film that had that single element (but also many other good ones).

The problem with this film are there are very few positives (Top of my list is Josh Trank and he's a wild-card at best).

And the question at hand isn't "might this film be good?", it could defy the odds and end up better than we expect (as Spiderdevil touches on, it would be almost impossible for it not to meet or exceed current expectations.)

The question was "Does the studio care about the film (franchise)?" and I have yet to see one solid bit of evidence to indicate the studio has faith in this film or has been willing to invest more than the bare minimum.

I keep asking for someone to show me something good rather than arguing the bad things might not be as bad as they look. But nobody seems to be able to offer anything other than arguments that the bad might not be terrible.

And that's how it is with these legal cases isn't it? Different pieces of evidence which are looked at individually in isolation from each other can be explained away reasonably. But it's also the collective picture and when everything is taken together, it becomes harder and harder not to make certain inferences from all the evidence as a whole.

And whichever standard of burden of proof you wanted to take here - whether civil (balance of probabilities) or criminal (beyond a reasonable doubt) - on a balance of probabilities based on the evidence, this movie is being severely mistreated and likely to flop, and it is beyond a reasonable doubt not to assume Fox are guilty of mistreating it and just using it as a rights grab.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Is Marc Webb a rebuttal of Lumpkin's caveat, or a confirmation? I cannot tell. My brain tells me the latter but my experience with this site tells me Webb was a counter example, implying that he was actually relevant in any sense.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Oh good lord. Do we really have to got through all this again?

1. They hired an inexperienced director whose one other film had a budget of 12 million.
2. They didn't put that director under contract to do more than one film.
3. They hired a script writer who had never done a script before.
4. They haven't hired any high-profile actors.
5. The budget is almost certain to be lower than any other Comic Book film in recent memory.
6. They didn't do so much as present a poster at Comic Con.
7. They haven't even released a logo yet when every other moderately serious release of 2015 has already done so.

I could go on and on, but I don't really have the time or patience to repeat for the 300th time the things we've been discussing on here for the past few years.

Unfortunately none of this is a signed, witnessed & notarized confession from Fox, in triplicate, in five different languages, all fully registered and officially stamped with approval by pavlov, after being rushed to his house by a burly manservant in a doubly-locked briefcase handcuffed to his wrist to prevent tampering.

Thus, it is unacceptable, haters!

How about this. Show me one, just one, piece of evidence that they do care about this franchise as anything more than a minor film.

I'd love to see pavlov's respond to this but oops! He already ran away.