The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 7

[Willie Lumpkin]

And now the sequel t the pisspoor article:

http://www.newsarama.com/22618-its-time-to-give-fox-s-fantastic-four-reboot-a-break-the-sequel.html

I hate the "Other people have made questionable decisions so lets throw our standards out the window" argument.

We've already spent way to much time discussing this nimrod's opinions. They aren't any more valid or well thought-out than most of the people here, so why reward him with clicks and comments?

 

[Docker2.0]

I hate the "Other people have made questionable decisions so lets throw our standards out the window" argument.

We've already spent way to much time discussing this nimrod's opinions. They aren't any more valid or well thought-out than most of the people here, so why reward him with clicks and comments?

It's like the rat trap with cheese thing. Yeah it may kill me and I eat anything so why bother with this cheese but if I don't go for it then I'd always wonder what if. Same thing with articles like this. I always wonder if I don't read it.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

It's like the rat trap with cheese thing. Yeah it may kill me and I eat anything so why bother with this cheese but if I don't go for it then I'd always wonder what if. Same thing with articles like this. I always wonder if I don't read it.

 

[Dark Raven]

That's not even really a proper article. It's like someone posted their opinions here in this thread and then copy and pasted it onto a Newsrama site, passing it off as some kind of proper movie journalism. His "article" doesn't hold any weight at all.

It's just the same as some poster here saying "give the movie a chance" and presenting all their reasons. We've been in circles with these arguments over and over again, and if someone is being paid to write this in support of Fox (or hoping Fox will send them a free movie ticket for FFINO so that they don't have to pay to go see it anyway) then there is no changing their minds.

 

[Docker2.0]

This article is like giving someone herpes but only because I love you type of thing. If you really cared about them, you would do what's best for them or at least give you the illusion that you are. They ain't even hiding the fact they are half arsing it.

 

[Dark Raven]

Herpes: Fox's clipped-winged messenger.

 

[Zarex]

Trank's FFINO may be an abusive, alcoholic layabout with a crippling drug addiction and a gambling problem - but we're not getting any younger, are we? Maybe we should ignore the dozens of comicbook movies coming to theaters over the next few years with generous budgets, spot-on casting and respect for the source material. Maybe we should, you know, just settle.

FOX's Fantastic Four - It's Settlin' Time!

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

And now the sequel t the pisspoor article:

http://www.newsarama.com/22618-its-time-to-give-fox-s-fantastic-four-reboot-a-break-the-sequel.html

Yeah advertorial is a very apt description for these laughable articles. If the film is bad it's not like us watching it is going to magically make it better. What is his end game here anyway? If Fox wants me as a fan to give this a chance then it's up to them to win me over. And they have done a horrible job of that.

A huge flaw that I see in his argument regarding brand toxicity is the fact that if this low budget flick flops hard enough that hardly anybody sees it then it won't even be a blip on the public consciousness.

Further the FF is a much bigger franchise than Punisher, Ghost Rider etc. and features many impactful characters Marvel can still utilize (and clearly want to utilize like Silver Surfer and Galactus). Dr. Doom is not just the FF's enemy. He's everybody's enemy. There's absolutely no way that if FF rights reverted in 2016 that Dr. Doom does not show up in the MCU in a relatively short period of time.

Lastly, many of us never wanted this film to be made to begin with. So arguing that since the very recent existence of this film may preclude its rapid inclusion in future MCU efforts so we should support it now is total circular logic. If this reboot was never made we'd already have them in the MCU. So yeah let's totally support the "dog in the manger". Makes sense.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

If Fox wants to get people onboard, they could do so by releasing an amazing image of Doom.

The problem is, they probably don't have an amazing image of Doom, and if they showed us what he's really going to look like, we probably wouldn't be impressed.

I don't see why it's our responsibility to give them anything when they hold all the cards. If they want us to view this project in a better light, they need to give us a better light.

 

[starscream22]

I guess all hope has died. Might as well change the name of the thread to "I might want the rights to revert back to Marvel"..................

It seems silly to me for anyone who is complaining about the F4's treatment to still go and pay for it at the theaters. I will not pay for this movie. FOX will not burn me again on comic films. I paid for another movie and saw DOFP because I didn't trust FOX and Singer and I hate the way they have handled the XMEN. Their are just too many deviations and liberties from the comic for my tastes and characters that are just in name only. Kitty Pride can now send someone's mind through time? WTF?? It was a good film but not a good xmen film. Fox didn't get credit for my ticket purchase. Sometimes we have to stand our ground as fans to send the studio a message. Even if we don't get the desired result we are enough to make a difference even if it is small. So we sit it out and F4 makes 100 million as opposed to a 150 million as an example. I would love to say I don't see this movie making a 100 mil but you never know and i'm sure FOX is going to be flashing that Marvel movie logo as much as they can for a big opening weekend.

I've said before they aren't getting a dime directly from me. I'll watch what netflix sends me, and if I like it I'll buy a used copy off ebay for pennies on the dollar. If that means I don't get to see Planet of the Apes in theaters so be it. I have a pretty good set up at home and only hit the theater 5 or 6 times a year anyway. I've boycotted Activision for years and can easily do the same with Fox. And will be, for the forseeable future.

I still haven't seen X-Men origins Wolverine yet, nor the Wolverine and Green Lantern. Have only ever caught bits of Catwoman but never the whole thing. I won't be seeing FFINO in theaters.

I don't care if this movie does turn out to be a hit among audiences or critics. I'm not going to see it in theaters.

I'm not going to see it at all.

I won't judge anyone who wants to see it, but you literally couldn't pay me to see it in any format.

I learned my lesson after the first film. Resisted the urge to see RotS even after those awesome trailers with Surfer, and my judgment proved accurate. The reboot isn't even trying to entice me into seeing it, so that makes my decision pretty easy.

Thank God I'm not the only one here building up a case against this studio only to throw them money anyway. That's like Rev. Al Sharpton giving this prolific speech about racial equality only to follow it up with "Now lets all go vote republican, in hopes that things will change!"

 

[Dark Raven]

Maybe the only way to pull an Emperor's New Cloak type scenario here with FFINO and get everyone to buy into what they can't see is to try to reframe everything they're doing and say that this is not your grandfather's FF, and this is not your grandfather's CBM by trying to get audiences to accept that the MCU is old hat and that this is the new wave of CBMs that everyone's been looking for.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

We can't say, with certainty, that this won't be the greatest Marvel-based film ever made.

Sure, it's extremely unlikely, but we've been holding out the irrational hope that Marvel would get the rights back, so why not maintain some hope that Trank will come out of hiding with a film tucked under his arm that brilliantly brings the Kirby FF to life?

IF this defies the odds and is a well done tribute to the real FF, Trank and Fox deserve to be rewarded.

Sure the odds are very slim, but I think to basically say: "I won't see this film even if it's the best, most faithful Marvel-based film ever made." doesn't make sense.

If we see some images and footage that confirms our worst fears, sure, Fox doesn't deserve our money, but I think it's premature to make that decision.

If the film is as you describe then I would say of course it deserves to be rewarded - which is why I think some of the most vitriolic among us (myself included) continue to follow the film's progress (or lack thereof) - but all the signs are bad and honestly the more I hear about the film the more it pisses me off. I just don't see how Trank is going to pull a rabbit out of his hat here.

And how will we know if he did without actually seeing the film? I still firmly believe that the best chance for a cinematic version of the FF would have been for them to be a part of the wildly successful film universe that Marvel has built that allows characters like Rocket Raccoon and Groot a chance to become superstars. Fox already made two of these FF films. I'm no longer interested. Fox has a long way to go to win me back over. I'll say it and I'll say it again - Fox needs to prove to me why what they are bringing to the table justifies excluding the FF from the rest of the Marvel universe. They better blow my freaking mind. But at the same time I'm rooting very hard for the property to revert. I don't want to undermine that either. A quandary perhaps? Not really.

I'm not trusting critics on this and I'm not trusting trailers. If I go and see it and there's a chance it actually delivers what I want to see then great. But if I go and see the film and it still disappoints me then what have I done but continue to put money in Fox's pocket for something I'm adamantly against? No way. I'm not taking that chance. I already paid for Fox's last two garbage FF films. I'm not doing it again. They are not getting my money. I don't believe in stealing. I'm personally not going to walk into one film and see another. I simply refuse to see this movie in theaters.

If it's somehow, supposedly actually a "good" film, well then I'll wait until it gets rave reviews that underscore faithfulness to the source and spirit, 90+% RT scores, great word of mouth from comic fans and then when it comes out on Netflix or even Redbox - okay I'll pay a buck for that. If I love the film then Fox will have finally won back a fan and then I will actually go back and start watching other films I've avoided like DOFP and DOPOTA etc. If Trank achieves the impossible I will probably even see FF reboot 2 in the theaters. However, if they screw up the FF yet again or even if the film is merely mediocre or just "OK" then my hatred for Fox will only be cemented further.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

And how will we know if he did without actually seeing the film?

I believe I'll be able to tell with the first trailer (and maybe prior to that with some photos).

It's either going to look and feel like the Fantastic Four or it's not. If it looks and feels more like Chronicle than the Fantastic Four (and I strongly suspect it will), then I'm not going. There's such a dramatic difference between the Fantastic Four and what I expect to get, that they won't be able to hide that with a slick trailer.

But until I've at least seen something to illustrate the design of the characters we'll get, I'm not going to vow to not give them my money. If they truly earn it, they'll get it, but they'll have to earn it.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

I believe I'll be able to tell with the first trailer (and maybe prior to that with some photos).

It's either going to look and feel like the Fantastic Four or it's not. If it looks and feels more like Chronicle than the Fantastic Four (and I strongly suspect it will), then I'm not going.

But until I've at least seen something to illustrate the design of the characters we'll get, I'm not going to vow to not give them my money. If they truly earn it, they'll get it, but they'll have to earn it.

Trailers can be misleading. It happens a lot. Case in point both Iron Man 3 and Man of Steel had fantastic trailers and the movies were nothing like the trailers.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Trailers can be misleading. It happens a lot. Case in point both Iron Man 3 and Man of Steel had fantastic trailers and the movies were nothing like the trailers.

But the thing with those (and I think you can throw the first FF film in there as well), is that Iron Man generally looked and acted like Iron Man and Superman generally looked and acted like Superman and both films had some strong and weak points.

If this film depicts the FF as well as MOS depicted Superman or as well as Iron Man 3 depicted Iron Man, I will not only be amazed, but I will give them my money.

I'm not concerned that the story might just be weak like the stories in MOS and IM3 were. I'm concerned that Fox and Trank don't even have any intention of giving us anything close to FF.

We would risk the kind of problems we saw with MOS or IM3 under the best of circumstances, but our circumstances are much more dire than they were for either of those films, I'm afraid.

 

[starscream22]

And this one comment made me stand up and give applause for making more sense than the article:



Yes, they're deleting the comments because the site got its feelings hurt over the truth.

I like that word he used "advertorial", It sums up that article nicely.

 

[Docker2.0]

But the thing with those (and I think you can throw the first FF film in there as well), is that Iron Man generally looked and acted like Iron Man and Superman generally looked and acted like Superman and both films had some strong and weak points.

If this film depicts the FF as well as MOS depicted Superman or as well as Iron Man 3 depicted Iron Man, I will not only be amazed, but I will give them my money.I'm not concerned that the story might just be weak like the stories in MOS and IM3 were. I'm concerned that Fox and Trank don't even have any intention of giving us anything close to FF.

We would risk the kind of problems we saw with MOS or IM3 under the best of circumstances, but our circumstances are much more dire than they were for either of those films, I'm afraid.

Dang it Willie! Don't do it man. We have to have a united stand. The way they are marketing this thing, you already know it's going to suck being a F4 movie. Again, it may be a good movie but it's not going to be a good F4 movie, that I can tell already. How can you make a movie for around $50M with Dr. Doom in it and stay true to character. You can't that's how!!!

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

But the thing with those (and I think you can throw the first FF film in there as well), is that Iron Man generally looked and acted like Iron Man and Superman generally looked and acted like Superman and both films had some strong and weak points.

If this film depicts the FF as well as MOS depicted Superman or as well as Iron Man 3 depicted Iron Man, I will not only be amazed, but I will give them my money.

I'm not concerned that the story might just be weak like the stories in MOS and IM3 were. I'm concerned that Fox and Trank don't even have any intention of giving us anything close to FF.

We would risk the kind of problems we saw with MOS or IM3 under the best of circumstances, but our circumstances are much more dire than they were for either of those films, I'm afraid.

I guess the point of my example was lost then. I thought Man of Steel was a terrible depiction of Superman. But the trailer practically moved me to tears. I couldn't wait to see the film. And then ... Utter disappointment. I'm sorry but a great trailer will not convince me to see this FF reboot.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Dang it Willie! Don't do it man. We have to have a united stand. The way they are marketing this thing, you already know it's going to suck being a F4 movie. Again, it may be a good movie but it's not going to be a good F4 movie, that I can tell already. How can you make a movie for around $50M with Dr. Doom in it and stay true to character. You can't that's how!!!

Let's look at it this way: If it's the Fantastic Four (real Fantastic Four, not UFF) I'll go.

If it's not the Fantastic Four, I won't go.

You're right. Everything we've seen and heard indicate it won't be Fantastic Four and in that case I won't go. But if somehow they do the unthinkable and make a true Fantastic Four film, I feel I OWE it to them and myself to reward that.

If this is (crazy hypothetical, but that's what I've been working with since this discussion started) the best Superhero film ever, I'm not going to turn my nose up at it and say: "No, I don't want perfection. Please continue to give me ASM 2 and Iron Man 3."

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I guess the point of my example was lost then. I thought Man of Steel was a terrible depiction of Superman. But the trailer practically moved me to tears. I couldn't wait to see the film. And then ... Utter disappointment. I'm sorry but a great trailer will not convince me to see this FF reboot.

Well I'm not a Superman fan, so I can't really comment on the fine points of how he was portrayed.

My biggest problem with it was that he wouldn't have had to save the world if he hadn't come here and created the threat and I would have liked to see him be more of an actual hero - but it seems like some of that was intentional because of what they plan to do with BVS, so I'll see where they go with it.

But while those story elements bothered me, he was from Krypton, he grew up on a farm, he was a generally good guy who tried to help people, he had Superman's powers. He had a blue suit and red cape with 'S' on it, etc. so from my non-Supermanphile point of view, he seemed like Superman.

I highly doubt the FF will come anywhere near that close to capturing the key elements.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

. . . Let's talk after they've made a 'grounded and gritty' Superman film in which he wears a containment suit.

 

[starscream22]

Yeah advertorial is a very apt description for these laughable articles. If the film is bad it's not like us watching it is going to magically make it better. What is his end game here anyway? If Fox wants me as a fan to give this a chance then it's up to them to win me over. And they have done a horrible job of that.

A huge flaw that I see in his argument regarding brand toxicity is the fact that if this low budget flick flops hard enough that hardly anybody sees it then it won't even be a blip on the public consciousness.

Further the FF is a much bigger franchise than Punisher, Ghost Rider etc. and features many impactful characters Marvel can still utilize (and clearly want to utilize like Silver Surfer and Galactus). Dr. Doom is not just the FF's enemy. He's everybody's enemy. There's absolutely no way that if FF rights reverted in 2016 that Dr. Doom does not show up in the MCU in a relatively short period of time.

Lastly, many of us never wanted this film to be made to begin with. So arguing that since the very recent existence of this film may preclude its rapid inclusion in future MCU efforts so we should support it now is total circular logic. If this reboot was never made we'd already have them in the MCU. So yeah let's totally support the "dog in the manger". Makes sense.

Yeah, the logic that since Marvel isn't getting this franchise back lets give Fox money so that it stays that way is pants on head ridiculous.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Well I don't want to turn this into a Superman thread. My main point is the trailer was deceiving as was Iron Man 3 and those were films I was very much looking forward to. I certainly won't be swayed by a good trailer for this film - a movie I never wanted to see made by Fox to begin with.

Yes I agree we need to support quality films but Fox is a outlier here (Sony too now BTW because of what they have done to Spider-Man). I don't care one whit that Fox can make a great X-Men film when Bryan Singer is involved or a good sci fi flick about sentient apes. I care about the FF. And not only has Fox single-handedly driven my favorite comic book super team into the ground, they are poised to do it - AGAIN. Any toxicity associated with this brand is squarely on their shoulders. As a result, they have to work 10 times as hard to gain back my trust in them. Yes if they make a great FF film it should be rewarded but I'll see it when I see it and not at the box office. If it's a good as it needs to be then I will reward them on the next go around.

No way they get an easy pass here. No way. If I hear people say "well it wasn't terrible", or "it was ok" or "it didn't suck", I'll probably flip my lid. Really? That's the best we can hope for for the FF? Meanwhile we are getting Guardians of the Galaxy 2 - a sequel to a critically acclaimed film about a gun toting racoon and a talking tree in space. SMDH.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Yeah, the logic that since Marvel isn't getting this franchise back lets give Fox money so that it stays that way is pants on head ridiculous.

Yeah this is Fox misreading their audience with their "they're just going to see it anyway" mentality.

Fox: Even though we're half heartedly making this film that nobody wants because the clock is about to run out, "give us break" already.

 

[Kelly]

This isn't a movie, it's a time bomb. You know..........if I was a mod, I think I'd ban you for trolling with that post.

Seriously, you are only proving Michael B Jordan's point when he says he will take a dump, put a little sugar on it, call it brownies and people will still eat it up. I really wanted to see TMNT but did not because Bay made it and I refuse to see anything that man has made in theaters again. Sometimes you have to send a message.

I believe I can go and see any movie that I choose to see, and report that here on this site. I can choose to spend my money any way that I want. Never once did I say I would eat it up, enjoy it a little, enjoy it a lot. I'm interested to see what they do with it. Could it be a "trainwreck mentality" on my part...sure. That is no business of yours....There is nothing wrong with that, and you call me a troll again because of my choice, and I'll ban you.