The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 7

[Ragnaroknroll]

Kitty Pryde's phasing properties are an enormous screw up. Nothing matters in the X-Men world anymore. Don't like how things went down? No problem, just send Wolverine back to fix it.

How annoying is it when you read a story or watch a TV show and at the end it all turns out to be a dream? That's what they've done to X-Men. Nothing that happened in all those previous films we watched actually happened. That was a different time-line and none of that matters anymore.

Just trash those old Blu-Rays. That didn't happen.

 

[Dark Raven]

Come on man - RDJ overused? I don't see how you can say this at all. It's not shoehorning if they are doing a Civil War adaptation. You can't possibly have a Civil War movie without Tony Stark. As to whether or not they should be making Cap 3 a Civil War movie well that is another discussion.

Beyond that overused how? Because he had 3 movies? Captain America is getting 3 movies. Thor is getting 3 movies. GOTG will have 2 movies. Beyond that the characters Ant-Man, Hulk, Black Panther, Captain Marvel and now the Inhumans will all have their own feature films before all is said and done. To say nothing of the Avengers films which are ensemble pieces. The first Avengers was extremely well balanced considering all the characters it had to juggle. Stark was a star sure but he wasn't the only star. In fact, Steve Rogers had more screen time in the Avengers than Tony Stark.

By contrast, there has never been an X-Men film that did not feature Hugh Jackman's Wolverine. First Class is the closest thing to a film without Hugh Jackman and even that featured a cameo. I'm sorry but when it comes to character balance Fox can't hold a candle to what Marvel is doing.

Captain America and Iron Man are being shoehorned into Civil War.

The Fantastic Four are being shoehorned into Chronicle 2.

 

[fixxxer]

Captain America and Iron Man are being shoehorned into Civil War.

The Fantastic Four are being shoehorned into Chronicle 2.

 

[starscream22]

Well Daredevil may be a poor movie but I think it was comic book accurate? Isn't it? Didn't see Elektra.And we know nothing about Doom yet
Keep it mind we are talking about accuracy and not quality

And my initial argument was for the person criticizing Kitty Pryde.I think it would be biased to find that a criticism and not Marvel's Tony Stark,Mandarin or Ultron

I was talking about the previous Doom but I'm sure we all understand if that was completely wiped that from your memory.

 

[starscream22]

I also think killing them off will increase rather than decrease interest. I think this is about killing . . . And then reviving a dying book by bringing it back when the time is right rather than Marvel caring what Fox is doing.

Marvel's inclusion of Black Panther and Inhumans in their long-term plans may help ensure Comic FF will never die. When those properties get big from the films and people who never heard of them before start looking into them, it's inevitable that they'll run into a certain foursome.

well... to be honest, there's no way you can do a history of marvel without the F4 considering they did start the silver age and saved the company...

however.. they, other than a few brief mentions and images.. completely ignored the X-men, and did very little on spidey

yeah it's kind of difficult to ignore the F4 in a history doc. The X-Men got more of a shaft, but this was more of a commercial than anything else.

I think Marvel did kind of go out their way not to mention too much on the franchises tied down at other studio's, heck I don't recall Avi Arad getting any mention at all which under the circumstances is fine by me. They offered just enough on X-men and F4 that they can still sell traditional books and merchandise that's not tied to those movies.

I think they did more harm to Fox than not.....you put the F4 up as Marvel and people get excited, until they see the first trailer and wonder who the heck those people are....

LOL, True!

That's whats already happening. Now do they really think the general audience is that ignorant about who the real F4 is when the 2 previous movies air on FX and TNT at least once a month?

The inevitable trailer for this reboot could be the nail in the coffin in this growing smear campaign they're placing on themselves.

 

[the gael]

Kitty Pryde's phasing properties are an enormous screw up. Nothing matters in the X-Men world anymore. Don't like how things went down? No problem, just send Wolverine back to fix it.

How annoying is it when you read a story or watch a TV show and at the end it all turns out to be a dream? That's what they've done to X-Men. Nothing that happened in all those previous films we watched actually happened. That was a different time-line and none of that matters anymore.

Just trash those old Blu-Rays. That didn't happen.

Well, Fox need Wolverine's help more than ever. They need to send him before they hired Trank to prevent anyone from remembering anything from this movie production.

 

[Dark Raven]

Wolverine needs to be sent back in time to the 1960s to become leader of the Fantastic Four. Then Fox can put him in their latest FFINO movie as the star.

Unless maybe he has already been sent back, but in this altered future, Wolverine looks like Miles Teller.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

And what Fox did with Kitty Pryde and Sebastian Shaw were justified imo given how their respective movies turned out to be excellent

Define 'excellent'.

 

[C. Lee]

Define 'excellent'.

It's whatever their OPINION says it is.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Wolverine needs to be sent back in time to the 1960s to become leader of the Fantastic Four. Then Fox can put him in their latest FFINO movie as the star.

Unless maybe he has already been sent back, but in this altered future, Wolverine looks like Miles Teller.

Good one!

 

[Whiskey Tango]

It's whatever their OPINION says it is.

Of course it is.

 

[Joe Rockhead]

I think Marvel did kind of go out their way not to mention too much on the franchises tied down at other studio's, heck I don't recall Avi Arad getting any mention at all which under the circumstances is fine by me. They offered just enough on X-men and F4 that they can still sell traditional books and merchandise that's not tied to those movies.

Oh, they totally avoided mention of the FF and X-Men when they could.

It's hard to argue with their reasoning - it was a pure advertising gimmick. Naturally they were forced to feature the FF to kick off the 60's but beyond that, their later appearances in the program were relegated to quick cover shots and the introduction of Black Panther - who they made a point of featuring in advance of his upcoming film.

X-men definitely fared much worse, but they almost HAD to focus on Wolverine due to the tonal shift of the comics from the 80's. Beyond that, though - not much else.

I think you could clearly see it when they talked about animation - they highlighted the 60's Avengers based cartoons over the 60's Spider-Man and 90's X-men cartoons which were certainly more popular in their day than those.

I suppose as the time ticks down to the end of the Fantastic Four comic, and then the release and likely failure (likely due to the absence of ANY advertisement as of yet) of the Fox reboot - coverage and appearances of the classic FF will get much worse before it gets better.

 

[Hellion]

You know all this crap I hear about Marvel sabotaging FF, I think the "75 Years of Marvel" special just did a huge favor for Foxtastic by featuring the FF as the characters that pretty much put Marvel on the map. More marketing money Fox can now shave off of their budget to keep this thing in the green.

Anything noteworthy on that 75 years special? My station was cut-off by news.

 

[Spidey's Curse]

Mostly because very few people know MCU's characters well,I doubt anybody here was a reader of GoTG comics and also they do it for the better

About Singer and Kinberg changing things with no regard,I have no problems with them taking a bit of artistic freedom for the betterment of the story,like giving Kitty Pryde time phasing abilities.Ellen Page already played the character well in X3 and she has a decent fanbase so it makes sense to use her that way instead of introducing a completely new mutant with time phasing abilities in an already bloated movie.Same with tall Wolverine,a 5'3'' wolverine would look ridiculous on screen,he would be shorter than most female cast even.My initial argument was for someone complaining about Kitty Pryde

Its only when they totally ruin the character that I have a problem.But from memory I can only think of Deadpool

They only changed kitty to shoehorn wolverine into yet another movie, not for making anything better. Kitty should've been the main star if they really wanted to make a DOFP movie. And the whole thing about introducing a new mutant into a bloated movie? What do you call sunspot and blink? They were only there to have cool looking mutant powers and die. At least Rachel summers would've added to the plot rather then leaving me wondering where kitty all of a sudden got these new powers.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Anything noteworthy on that 75 years special? My station was cut-off by news.

It was more of a warm and fuzzy retrospective for those of us who are familiar with Marvel's history but yeah there was some good stuff. It was really nice to see Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko getting major props. (I'm personally really glad that the Kirby estate and Marvel have finally worked out their differences.) But in addition to that, we got some sneak peaks at Ant-Man, Age of Ultron and Agent Carter.

 

[fangz]

And what Fox did with Kitty Pryde and Sebastian Shaw were justified imo given how their respective movies turned out to be excellent

yes, that way of talking about it totally makes more sense to me. And that's valid whether I or anyone agree with it or not. Or tell me why Tony didn't work for you. Or why Rick Jones' absence is important in some way. becuz there's lots changed and lots to disagree with and dislike, depending.

But what I was responding to more was the idea that Marvel is immune to criticism and also there's some kind of implication of hypocrisy or that something entirely not like another thing should have to be treated as equivalents.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

It was more of a warm and fuzzy retrospective for those of us who are familiar with Marvel's history but yeah there was some good stuff. It was really nice to see Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko getting major props. (I'm personally really glad that the Kirby estate and Marvel have finally worked out their differences.) But in addition to that, we got some sneak peaks at Ant-Man, Age of Ultron and Agent Carter.

It was worth it for Steranko alone. The man looks like he just stepped right out of the early 70's.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

It was worth it for Steranko alone. The man looks like he just stepped right out of the early 70's.

Ha! No joke...

 

[Hellion]

It was more of a warm and fuzzy retrospective for those of us who are familiar with Marvel's history but yeah there was some good stuff. It was really nice to see Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko getting major props. (I'm personally really glad that the Kirby estate and Marvel have finally worked out their differences.) But in addition to that, we got some sneak peaks at Ant-Man, Age of Ultron and Agent Carter.

It was worth it for Steranko alone. The man looks like he just stepped right out of the early 70's.

Ha! No joke...

Thanks for the info.

 

[Spiderdevil]

Come on man - RDJ overused? I don't see how you can say this at all. It's not shoehorning if they are doing a Civil War adaptation. You can't possibly have a Civil War movie without Tony Stark. As to whether or not they should be making Cap 3 a Civil War movie well that is another discussion.

Beyond that overused how? Because he had 3 movies? Captain America is getting 3 movies. Thor is getting 3 movies. GOTG will have 2 movies. Beyond that the characters Ant-Man, Hulk, Black Panther, Captain Marvel and now the Inhumans will all have their own feature films before all is said and done. To say nothing of the Avengers films which are ensemble pieces. The first Avengers was extremely well balanced considering all the characters it had to juggle. Stark was a star sure but he wasn't the only star. In fact, Steve Rogers had more screen time in the Avengers than Tony Stark.

I didn't want the Civil War adaptation in a Captain America movie,I mean what's the difference between a Captain America and Avengers movie now?
RDJ has been given a part and he will probably get a role as big as Captain America and definitely get a larger paycheck.It isn't a Captain America movie anymore.That and him creating Ultron(Though one can say Marvel had no other option since Edgar Wright delayed Ant-man so much)

By contrast, there has never been an X-Men film that did not feature Hugh Jackman's Wolverine. First Class is the closest thing to a film without Hugh Jackman and even that featured a cameo. I'm sorry but when it comes to character balance Fox can't hold a candle to what Marvel is doing.

Well First Class didn't have Wolverine as the main character and in DoFP all three of Magneto,Professor X and Mistique had a bigger role and Wolverine played second fiddle.
So I think they are finally going the right direction

Plus you have to see that Fox didn't have the liberty of making individual movies to flesh out the characters like Marvel did since most X-men only work as a team

 

[Spiderdevil]

No way - they were not comic book accurate at all. How was Norman Osborn-Electro-Colossus metrosexual Doom comic accurate? How was Galactus the cloud who gets defeated by his own herald comic accurate? How was pathetic whiny Cyclops who doesn't lead the freaking X-Men and solely exists to make Wolverine look cooler comic accurate?

Okay I forgot Galactus
Cyclops was coming book accurate,he was the leader and his powers were the same.He only played second fiddle to Wolverine.There is a difference between not being comic book accurate and given the short end of the stick

 

[Spiderdevil]

They only changed kitty to shoehorn wolverine into yet another movie, not for making anything better. Kitty should've been the main star if they really wanted to make a DOFP movie. And the whole thing about introducing a new mutant into a bloated movie? What do you call sunspot and blink? They were only there to have cool looking mutant powers and die. At least Rachel summers would've added to the plot rather then leaving me wondering where kitty all of a sudden got these new powers.

Wolverine wasn't the main star anymore.Prof X,Magneto and Mystique had more pivotal roles

 

[Spiderdevil]

yes, that way of talking about it totally makes more sense to me. And that's valid whether I or anyone agree with it or not. Or tell me why Tony didn't work for you. Or why Rick Jones' absence is important in some way. becuz there's lots changed and lots to disagree with and dislike, depending.

But what I was responding to more was the idea that Marvel is immune to criticism and also there's some kind of implication of hypocrisy or that something entirely not like another thing should have to be treated as equivalents.

I have no problems with Tony Stark.I was just pointing out that people could have problems with something so minute as Kitty Pryde's powers but not with Tony Stark's completely different personality

 

[Tymminator]

The way Bendis (New Avengers/616 version) and Millar (Ultimate version) wrote Stark it really was not "completely different", and they were doing that way before the movie ever came out. I would argue RDJ was a closer Stark with the way we was being written at the time than any depiction of Peter Parker or Bruce Wayne.

 

[psylockolussus]

Kitty Pryde's phasing properties are an enormous screw up. Nothing matters in the X-Men world anymore. Don't like how things went down? No problem, just send Wolverine back to fix it.

How annoying is it when you read a story or watch a TV show and at the end it all turns out to be a dream? That's what they've done to X-Men. Nothing that happened in all those previous films we watched actually happened. That was a different time-line and none of that matters anymore.

Just trash those old Blu-Rays. That didn't happen.

Right because the previous films didn't lead to the events of Days of Future Past and the time-travel because it was just all a dream.

And just because someone has the ability to send someone back in time, it doesn't mean timetravel will always be the solution.