The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 8

[The Infernal]

Kinda funny in a weird way how that played out for Bleeding Cool at the time. They seemed to get a good bit of stick for that story at the time, but they stuck to their guns. In retrospect it seems a lot more credible now and in keeping with what we've seen and heard so far about this production.

 

[Eddie]

Bleeding Cool also called the comic cancellation. They're not always right with their scoops (nobody is), but they've definitely had some inside knowledge on the Fantastic Four situation.

 

[def28]

Unfortunately, the book would have got the chop once again rather Fox had a flick next year or not. Canceling a low selling comic outside of the top 100 will not hurt Fox in any way. Or should come as a shock when Marvel cancels it because sales drop that fast. They need a new plan for them.

If anything I think marvel is watching their own back here and will wait for the right time to revive.Probably don't want the property getting a bad rep or low sales anymore then it has. Regardless if the flicks good or bad, wait for the tide to pass then come back.

The whole gone forever thing is flat out bs. It's the comic world. That's just a ploy for more sales.

 

[Eddie]

Fantastic Four was selling better than other books that didn't get cancelled. There have also been confirmed instances of Marvel telling artists not to use FF characters. The FF cancellation was related to the movie rights situation, just like the whole thing where Magneto isn't Wanda and Pietro's father anymore.

 

[def28]

What books are you comparing it to that have not been canceled? Cause alot either has or is getting canceled in the next half year and won't make it to issue 20 much like anyone by the F4's territory. 60k alone for their #1 is pretty low. By 10 they are below 30k. That's below Nova's 10. Which is now near F4's total with double the issues.

If the comic is making below 30k at Marvel your in trouble. Especially in low issue numbers. There may be exceptions if Marvel really want's to push you, but what they will usually do when it's too low is relaunch and try again. Which will happen in some way with F4 eventually. F4 has also been canceled a few times before in the past decade. Marvels been trying, just not happening.

I'm sure the film pisses them off and that may lead to a longer delay in relaunch but if this was a high selling title, I doubt you would see this happening. Or who knows maybe it would. But it would be much less predictable when looking at the numbers. Just really can't see how a cancellation was avoidable without an sales increase.

 

[Kelly]

If the F4 had been at Marvel/Disney, I do not believe that the comic would have been cancelled. I think there would have been some massive changes, and possibly the UFF would be ousted, mainly because it has virtually lost all long time fans of the comics. I could see a short hiatus of a few months, and then a huge comeback with the movie. So, I think that the movie being at Fox and low sales of the UFF are both equal in their bearing on the cancellation.

 

[Orba]

I still think something would have happened simply due to the bad sales, probably a relaunch rather than the break it is going to be getting. But yeah there still would be some sort of Fantastic Four book simply because Marvel tends to be far more forgiving of bad sales with characters that have upcoming films. About the only upcoming MCU character that doesn't have a new book or one coming is Doctor Strange (unless I missed that announcement).

 

[Surfer]

As terrible as it is any company being hacked, I am excited by the thought Marvel & Sony might be able to work something out where Marvel regains creative control of Spider-man. I really hope this happens. However, there is part of me that wishes it was Fox that had the leak and that perhaps information being shared about their Fantastic Four Movie might have lead to public pressure and possibly them releasing it back into the hands of Marvel. I mean I know it would be a long shot, but could you imagine if there was a personal correspondence stating Fox didn't feel confident in the success of the Fantastic Four movie being made and that they were only doing it to retain the rights. I think many Fans feel this is the case, but if it was part of a leaked correspondence that could be a lot more powerful in helping the movie fail and reverting the rights to Marvel. I somewhat feel bad about wanting a Fantastic Four movie to fail especially with them being my single favorite comic book, but I just can't help but want them to be part of a shared universe with the MCU where they belong.

Surfer

 

[Dark Raven]

As terrible as it is any company being hacked, I am excited by the thought Marvel & Sony might be able to work something out where Marvel regains creative control of Spider-man. I really hope this happens. However, there is part of me that wishes it was Fox that had the leak and that perhaps information being shared about their Fantastic Four Movie might have lead to public pressure and possibly them releasing it back into the hands of Marvel. I mean I know it would be a long shot, but could you imagine if there was a personal correspondence stating Fox didn't feel confident in the success of the Fantastic Four movie being made and that they were only doing it to retain the rights. I think many Fans feel this is the case, but if it was part of a leaked correspondence that could be a lot more powerful in helping the movie fail and reverting the rights to Marvel. I somewhat feel bad about wanting a Fantastic Four movie to fail especially with them being my single favorite comic book, but I just can't help but want them to be part of a shared universe with the MCU where they belong.

Surfer

I think some people would still be in denial and would try to find a way to spin it "positively".

 

[Eddie]

I think that Fox would have bigger things than their crappy FF right grab to worry about if a hack on this scale hit them. Hell, if News Corporation itself had their dirty laundry exposed the whole thing would probably shut down (fyi for those not in the know, News Corporation plead to not have corporate charges filed against them in the '11 phone hacking scandal because it would shut down the entire company and hurt the economy).

 

[Orba]

Who would have thought a couple of weeks ago that we could be in a situation where Spider-Man could be heading back to Marvel control before the Fantastic Four.

 

[Surfer]

Who would have thought a couple of weeks ago that we could be in a situation where Spider-Man could be heading back to Marvel control before the Fantastic Four.

Yeah, with all of the reports we were getting about Fox's poor handling of the Fantastic Four movie, it really seemed like the rights reverting on the Fantastic Four movie was the most likely out of the various properties not owned by Marvel to revert, and then out of left field comes this Sony hack. Fox must be happy that Fans have their attentions diverted to wanting Spiderman back from Sony and that they are not as focused on getting the Fantastic Four rights back from Fox at the moment.

Surfer

 

[Eddie]

I think getting Spidey in the MCU will inevitably increase the pressure on Fox to get a deal worked out with their properties as well. It will prove that such a deal can work, and Fox will look bad if they don't work something out as well.

 

[Dark Raven]

I think getting Spidey in the MCU will inevitably increase the pressure on Fox to get a deal worked out with their properties as well. It will prove that such a deal can work, and Fox will look bad if they don't work something out as well.

As if they aren't already.

 

[Docker2.0]

I think getting Spidey in the MCU will inevitably increase the pressure on Fox to get a deal worked out with their properties as well. It will prove that such a deal can work, and Fox will look bad if they don't work something out as well.

You think Fox looks bad now, you wait until F4 gets(or if)released. If/when Spidey goes back to Marvel, there will be some pressure with Fox to return F4, though I don't think it will be for another few years. I'd say if Spidey goes back, that's a huge win for Marvel. I mean HUGE! But if F4 goes back, that's a huge win for Disney. I think F4 would become Marvel's premiere franchise.

 

[Surfer]

You think Fox looks bad now, you wait until F4 gets(or if)released. If/when Spidey goes back to Marvel, there will be some pressure with Fox to return F4, though I don't think it will be for another few years. I'd say if Spidey goes back, that's a huge win for Marvel. I mean HUGE! But if F4 goes back, that's a huge win for Disney. I think F4 would become Marvel's premiere franchise.

Well the Marvel motto is that "It's all connected", but to me I have always seen the Fantastic Four as being the connective tissue to so much of their universe, so without them it seems somewhat bitter sweet. So, yeah I agree if they get them back it would be huge.

Surfer

 

[Gr0oT]

These Sony Hack reveals concerning the planned X-Men/FF crossover make me feel sick to my stomach and have the hope dwindling.
Is it at all possible that this forsaken reboot could possibly do as bad as the Sin City sequel?

 

[Zarex]

These Sony Hack reveals concerning the planned X-Men/FF crossover make me feel sick to my stomach and have the hope dwindling.
Is it at all possible that this forsaken reboot could possibly do as bad as the Sin City sequel?

If the can crossover the two character families - and I doubt that they can - FOX still has to get Donner and Singer onboard. And I can't see them letting a rights grab like FFINO taint what has been a very successful franchise.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

I'm not defending the film. My point is that we know next to nothing about this adaptation and it gets tiring reading about negative stuff as if they were established facts.

And I'm not really a fan of MCU as I find their movies too formulaic and safe. I prefer Fox's more out of the box albeit less faithful approach with their recent CBMs.

Thanks for explaining.

Well you’re certainly entitled to your opinion. I find the idea that Marvel has “played it safe” a little absurd but I personally find just about all superhero movies kind of formulaic to some degree no matter who makes them. I’d agree with you somewhat on a formulaic approach for the MCU Phase 1 but to me I feel Marvel’s done a good job in Phase 2 of breaking that mold. The Fox X-Men films are definitely formulaic as others here have brought out but I still enjoy a few of them.

At no point has Fox demonstrated any competency whatsoever with any comic property not named X-Men and their handling of the FF has been particularly egregious. We’re talking universally panned films here so if that is the definition of “out of the box” I fail to see how that is a good thing.

I also disagree that we know next to nothing about this reboot but that’s not an argument I care to get into as it’s been rehashed many times on this very forum. I will agree the endless bashing gets old but people are just pissed. And of course you are complaining on the number one forum topic where those very same people would be most active.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

I saw that Sony leak about Kinberg's supposed big Martin Luther King "I have a dream" plan to do an FF/X-Men crossover but I still don't see how that is feasible contractually unless there's been negotiations we're not aware of. I'll believe it when I see it.

That's some pretty awesome news about Spidey though. If that really happens it will certainly help ease the sting (for me anyway) of Fox butchering the Fantastic Four. It's been pretty painful to see the way both of those properties have been handled. What's the most embarrassing is how clueless Sony really is when it comes to how to handle the Spider-Man character. After all this, if Sony still stubbornly forges ahead with their standalone Spiderverse I think they're totally screwed. Their dirty laundry is all out in the open. They need to do something bold now to save face. I predict Spidey in the MCU very soon.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

One last thought I had about the Sony leaks and Marvel's efforts to incorporate Spider-Man back in their universe.... the fact that we now have confirmation that Marvel has been actively working to recover an outstanding property.... doesn't it stand to reason that they very well may have made similar efforts to recover the FF? We know they wanted Silver Surfer and Galactus. I mention it because I've occasionally seen some posters around here angry that Marvel isn't trying hard enough to bring the FF home but how do we know they haven't tried? It takes two to tango.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Sony only has Spidey though.

Marvel doesn't have any leverage to X-men to get Fantastic Four back. Fox was willing to let DD go in favor Fantastic Four.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

If the can crossover the two character families - and I doubt that they can - FOX still has to get Donner and Singer onboard. And I can't see them letting a rights grab like FFINO taint what has been a very successful franchise.

X-men is going to be in a weird spot after Apocalypse though. They'll have Storm and Co. but the FC trio will be up in the air.

It may be a matter of keeping a movie coming out with X-men characters, while not rushing to replace or re-up Mags and Professor X. (I doubt JLaw is staying).

 

[SpideyFan866]

These Sony Hack reveals concerning the planned X-Men/FF crossover make me feel sick to my stomach and have the hope dwindling.
Is it at all possible that this forsaken reboot could possibly do as bad as the Sin City sequel?

I'm convinced that Sony was working off old info with that crossover.

Simon Kinberg confirmed months ago that a crossover was NOT happening; a shared universe is not being made.

http://www.firstshowing.net/2014/simon-kinberg-says-x-men-fantastic-four-wont-share-universe/

 

[Docker2.0]

I'm convinced that Sony was working off old info with that crossover.

Simon Kinberg confirmed months ago that a crossover was NOT happening; a shared universe is not being made.

Yep! This seems to be forgotten by most. F4 can't be crossed over with Xmen with out Marvel/Disney's permission and with the bad blood right now, it ain't going to happen. But to be honest, it shouldn't. These properties have NOTHING in common and shouldn't be allowed to crossover. This is horrible news.