The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 8

[Roose Bolton]

Of the 6 films they've put out in the last 5 years, 3 of them were great, 1 was good, 1 was underwhelming, 1 was outright bad. That's a broad spectrum that mostly skews to the positive.

 

[Zant]

Of the 6 films they've put out in the last 5 years, 3 of them were great, 1 was good, 1 was underwhelming, 1 was outright bad. That's a broad spectrum that mostly skews to the positive.

You know the rules. You are not allowed to say anything good about Fox here.

SONY's Venom announcement is causing some serious meltdowns lol. Its almost like they are trolling Marvel and reminding everyone that they still own the rights to Spiderman.

Imagine the meltdowns if Fox were to announce a FF spin off.........

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Actually it's not that unlikely. As much as Fox has been inconsistent it has to be noted they have been more hit than miss in the past years. Yes, you still have movies like Wolverine or Apocalypse or Fan4stic but they don't miss like in the early years. So if we are going by chances there is a pretty decent chance the next Fox F4 film will be solid...

But, but BUT... you're ignoring the reality of FF. Fox has destroyed the property with two bad and one terrible film to the point fans aren't just ambivalent but violently HATE the idea of another FF film.

Last time, they didn't just lose a lot of money at the box office (as they obviously did), but they literally lost BILIONS ( http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=34606055&postcount=574 ) in market cap and the chairmen specifically pointed his finger at Fantastic Four as a primary reason.

There has never, in the history of film, been a situation in which a film studio has screwed up as bad as they did with the three FF films, and they've put themselves in a position in which people are violently opposed to the idea of another film. That, in itself, makes FF a big risk. And Fox doesn't like risk. They like big bang for the buck and they are only willing to spend a little bit when they have a proven formula like X-Men.

But Fantastic Four can't be done on a shoe-string budget (as we've seen). When Fantastic Four first came out in the early '60s, it was unique because, unlike other popular comic books of the day, it was epic sci-fi with strange creatures coming from under ground, outer-space and alternate dimensions. Those spectacular situations and visuals that characterized the FF can't be done cheap.

AND because Fox has screwed up so badly and because fans hate the idea, directors and actors would be the object of hatred from fans from the moment they sign on. What talented director or actor wants their twitter feed to be filled with nothing but animosity from angry fans? What talented people would sign on for such an effort?

Add all that up and FF isn't just another X-Film and can't be treated as one.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Of the 6 films they've put out in the last 5 years, 3 of them were great, 1 was good, 1 was underwhelming, 1 was outright bad. That's a broad spectrum that mostly skews to the positive.

And of those 6 films, how many of them have had a look and feel and scale and scope that a proper FF film would need?

The two best films of those six were low-budget, very violent, R-Rated character-focused films.

The FF is different and Fox has NEVER made a decent film that looks and feels like FF should.

 

[GeckoMoria]

they had 2 good movies in the last couple of years. I really wouldn't call that 'more hit than miss'

2 good moviees according to who? You? because the majority of critics and fans really like Logan, Deadpool or DOFP.

 

[Roose Bolton]

And of those 6 films, how many of them have had a look and feel and scale and scope that a proper FF film would need?

The two best films of those six were low-budget, very violent, R-Rated character-focused films.

The FF is different and Fox has NEVER made a decent film that looks and feels like FF should.

I'm not sure I especially care about whether Fox has made successful films in the vein of FF. I'm just stating that of their recent films, they've had more broadly positive results than negative. That's not a comment on aesthetics or tone.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I'm not sure I especially care about whether Fox has made successful films in the vein of FF. I'm just stating that of their recent films, they've had more broadly positive results than negative. That's not a comment on aesthetics or tone.

Well FF fans care about that little detail. You can't tell FF fans - "Why don't you give Fox a break and allow them to make a fourth film that looks and feels nothing like FF... because they've made a couple decent films that are nothing like what you want."

 

[Roose Bolton]

I don't believe I stated that anywhere.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

2 good moviees according to who? You? because the majority of critics and fans really like Logan, Deadpool or DOFP.

to whom.

okay, let's say, I'll give DoFP a pass for all the cringeworthy absurdity that was the third act, the cameos of every X-Man that wasn't the usual suspect (Xavier, Magneto, Mystique and Logan of course...so much Logan.. in an adaptation about a story that was mostly about Shadowcat) and horrible action scenes and accept it's a somewhat decent movies just because some bloke on the internet loves it.... than that's still only 3 good movies over the last, what, 6 years?
In the same time we also had Fant4stic and Apocalypse, so that's still a 40% miss chance. and when they miss, they miss 100%. boy, do they miss.

 

[Orba]

AND because Fox has screwed up so badly and because fans hate the idea, directors and actors would be the object of hatred from fans from the moment they sign on. What talented director or actor wants their twitter feed to be filled with nothing but animosity from angry fans? What talented people would sign on for such an effort?

Add all that up and FF isn't just another X-Film and can't be treated as one.

Yup, because Fox have poisoned the brand so heavily any future films would have to swim very much against the current no matter how good the films were. With the brand so damaged and with fan opinion so heavily against it Fox have to know that it will depress the box office potential of future FF films at Fox. And the production budget for a franchise is not cheap (if you want to do it right).

So Fox have to gamble on an expensive film of a damaged brand that the fans don't want. They basically have to be willing to gamble on an expensive film that might only break even (if its a decent film) in hopes that it might bring the audience back and swing fan opinion so that they can hope to start making profit on the films beyond that.

 

[Zarex]

You know the rules. You are not allowed to say anything good about Fox here.

SONY's Venom announcement is causing some serious meltdowns lol. Its almost like they are trolling Marvel and reminding everyone that they still own the rights to Spiderman.

Imagine the meltdowns if Fox were to announce a FF spin off.........

Can you imagine? All the FOX loyalists pouring back onto the FF threads and telling actual Fantastic Four fans to ignore our lying eyes and listen to what Simon "Its not a disaster." Kinberg is telling us? It would be INSANE!

 

[Dark Raven]

Can you imagine? All the FOX loyalists pouring back onto the FF threads and telling actual Fantastic Four fans to ignore our lying eyes and listen to what Simon "Its not a disaster." Kinberg is telling us? It would be INSANE!

I wouldn't mind some FFINO defenders showing up for an encore. They kept things entertaining and provided us with laughter.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I don't believe I stated that anywhere.

You may not have used those words, but you are defending the quality of Fox films on a thread comprised of FF fans that has been dedicated, for the past four years, to Fox no longer making crappy FF films.

What is your intention if it differs from what I stated?

 

[Roose Bolton]

You may not have used those words, but you are defending the quality of Fox films on a thread comprised of FF fans that has been dedicated, for the past four years, to Fox no longer making crappy FF films.

What is your intention if it differs from what I stated?

My intentions were simple. It was stated in this thread that Fox has only had two successes in the last few years, I refuted that.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

My intentions were simple. It was stated in this thread that Fox has only had two successes in the last few years, I refuted that.

Okay, but you have no interest in FF, so why are you even bothering to read this thread? I have no interest in X-Men, so I don't hang out on X-Men threads.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Okay, but you have no interest in FF, so why are you even bothering to read this thread? I have no interest in X-Men, so I don't hang out on X-Men threads.

I didn't say that either. I have no interest in looking at other films outside the brand as a measurement or indication of quality, but that doesn't mean I have no stake in that brand itself.

But I have to ask, why does it concern you, exactly? I haven't been telling you your subjective opinion on any of the Fox Marvel films has been incorrect, in fact the sticking point you chose to respond to is an objective statement.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I didn't say that either. I have no interest in looking at other films outside the brand as a measurement or indication of quality, but that doesn't mean I have no stake in that brand itself.

But I have to ask, why does it concern you, exactly? I haven't been telling you your subjective opinion on any of the Fox Marvel films has been incorrect, in fact the sticking point you chose to respond to is an objective statement.

I wouldn't say it 'concerns' me, but you disputed my characterization of your motivations without offering any real explanation what your motivations actually are. What is your 'stake'?

And in the interest of fairness, I'll offer my motivation. I've been an FF fan since the early '70s. Since that time, I have been very interested in seeing a big-screen adaptation that would bring to life the images I had in my head when I read those comic books as a child.

Over the course of three films, Fox has been completely unwilling and unable to do that, but they hang onto the rights like grim death while Marvel seems ready, willing and able to do something better with the characters.

So I come in here every day hoping for news and discussing developments and general thoughts with other people who have similar interests.

That's why I come here. Why do you come here? I inferred that you wanted to argue that Fox can make a good FF film (something I would have agreed with up until spring of 2014 when we started getting the first casting news), but you took issue with that while avoiding offering any clear alternative. So what is it?

 

[Roose Bolton]

I wouldn't say it 'concerns' me, but you disputed my characterization of your motivations without offering any real explanation what your motivations actually are. What is your 'stake'?

And in the interest of fairness, I'll offer my motivation. I've been an FF fan since the early '70s. Since that time, I have been very interested in seeing a big-screen adaptation that would bring to life the images I had in my head when I read those comic books as a child.

Over the course of three films, Fox has been completely unwilling and unable to do that, but they hang onto the rights like grim death while Marvel seems ready, willing and able to do something better with the characters.

So I come in here every day hoping for news and discussing developments and general thoughts with other people who have similar interests.

That's why I come here. Why do you come here? I inferred that you wanted to argue that Fox can make a good FF film (something I would have agreed with up until spring of 2014 when we started getting the first casting news), but you took issue with that while avoiding offering any clear alternative. So what is it?

I didn't take 'issue' with that (nor did I question your motivations for posting here in the first place), I simply pointed out that your assumptions were premature. There is no argument on my end, as I made an objective statement of fact. Fox has had more than two films that have recently found critical and commercial success, now whether those films are subjectively good or bad is up to personal opinion and not really what I was saying.

But since you've a bee in your bonet about my own personal views, I'll say that my opinion is that a good FF film at Fox is possible, but not probable. To expand upon that, I'll also say that my interest in the brand lay less with the FF themselves and more to do with certain ancillary characters contained within that brand and that I keep an occasional eye on this thread out of curiosity.

 

[Spiderine]

Yup, because Fox have poisoned the brand so heavily any future films would have to swim very much against the current no matter how good the films were. With the brand so damaged and with fan opinion so heavily against it Fox have to know that it will depress the box office potential of future FF films at Fox. And the production budget for a franchise is not cheap (if you want to do it right).

So Fox have to gamble on an expensive film of a damaged brand that the fans don't want. They basically have to be willing to gamble on an expensive film that might only break even (if its a decent film) in hopes that it might bring the audience back and swing fan opinion so that they can hope to start making profit on the films beyond that.

In other words......They got to Batman Begins this thing. Without the benefit of a wildly popular cartoon that revolutionized the industry. A previous series of films that broke some box office records. A disaster of a film that gave us at least 8 years to forget. A character that hadnt been rebooted yet. A classic villain that audiences were ready to see a new take on after already being played by a legend. And all without the added incentives of showcasing other popular marvel characters from the mcu or xverse franchises. Which has become a cinematic staple in todays superhero big screen adaptations.

Yeah......fox should be fine. Go for it

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

But since you've a bee in your bonet about my own personal views,

Hey, it's a discussion forum. When I discuss something, I ask questions and I try to understand people's perspectives and why they feel the way they do.

Isn't the whole point of this forum to post our personal views? What else is the point? I mean I'm not here to post Guillermo del Toro's opinion. I can only offer my own. And simply stating obvious facts certainly makes for dull conversation.

But it seems I'm annoying you, so I'll stop.

 

[First Avenger]

Yeah, a great Doom in a terrible movie.

Faithful Doom in a faithful F4 movie of course.

 

[Jordacar]

We really need a situation where Doom can be a looming, recurring threat, not just to the FF. Anything less is a fraction of his potential.

 

[InCali]

I think FC, DoFP, Deadpool, and Logan were all pretty good, but even after watching them, nothing makes me think Fox would make a semi-decent FF movie and the last debacle makes me think that Fox would never attempt another one. I've been wrong before, but I don't think Murdoch or the Fox shareholders would be interested.

Does anyone out there foresee Disney doing a John Carter sequel? Cause I don't.....

 

[Drseuss]

You know the rules. You are not allowed to say anything good about Fox here.

SONY's Venom announcement is causing some serious meltdowns lol. Its almost like they are trolling Marvel and reminding everyone that they still own the rights to Spiderman.

Imagine the meltdowns if Fox were to announce a FF spin off.........

Yup their denial is real. DOFP is cringeworthy to them. Deadpool is cringeworthy to them. Logan is cringeworthy to them.....because they arent made by the mouse.

And if they dont even allow sony to make money with Venom, I cant imagine fox can please them with anything.

 

[Zarex]

Yup their denial is real. DOFP is cringeworthy to them. Deadpool is cringeworthy to them. Logan is cringeworthy to them.....because they arent made by the mouse.

And if they dont even allow sony to make money with Venom, I cant imagine fox can please them with anything.

That's not true. Despite the laments from FOX loyalists that MCU fans are biased against Marvel licensed offerings from other studios, all three of those films were well regarded by the majority of fans. And a Venom solo film is a terrible, awful idea, regardless of your studio bias.

The problem for Fantastic Four fans is that the three FOX FF films are all cringeworthy. Nobody can argue with that.