The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 9

[starscream22]

Good news for those hoping for reversion: The increased effort to salvage this film could push the budget to a point that the film will need a reasonable gross to be successful.

Bad news for those hoping for a good film: A lot of money being wasted so a film that may result with a reasonable budget will look like a film with a much smaller budget.

You'd think that Fox-men fans would see this for the slight that is, meaning the $25M-$50M they put into this reboot just to keep the rights could've been invested into a quality X-men spin off leading into Apocalypse. You know giving such an epic villain his due instead of just throwing him out there in a desperate move to compete with the other studios.

I still think that crossover is just talk and no substance, so after this reboot flops and once Fox uses up their get out of jail Apocalypse card then what...?

 

[Surfer]

Don't Fox realise that this film is a money pit? They're just throwing away good money after bad to try and fix this thing. At what point does it not become worth it and they decide to cut their losses? Or maybe they never will in this case.

Yeah, I have a feeling Fox is going to lose their shirt on this movie. I mean I don't see how, (with all of the drama that has surrounded this movie and the lack of promoting it up until now) it is going to be a huge success in the Box Office no matter how much Fox throws at it money wise. The problems may have started partially because of a smaller budget, but they are now compounded by their lack of time left before the rights revert. So with little time left, it seems like they are now cutting corners by going back to do reshoots without rewriting the script first. They are basically just saying screw it lets just film a bunch of action scenes and throw it in there, because the movie going audience will never know the difference. I have no doubt if they are circumventing the rewrites necessary to make the Fantastic Four into a better movie, then they are just throwing money at action and special effects hoping to dazzle the movie going audience into wanting to see this movie. When is Fox going to realize you can not polish a turd as it just makes a mess. If they were smart they would just cut their losses on this film and let the rights revert. They stand to lose a whole lot more then the Fantastic Four rights, by pouring money into this money pit, as I am pretty sure at this point many fans like myself will not see this movie no matter what, and as the movie draws closer and the movie going audience becomes more aware of the problems surrounding this movie that they would be equally concerned about spending their hard earned money on this movie when there will be so many other better summer movies to choose from.

Surfer

 

[Surfer]

I think the people in charge at Fox, their desire to keep the Fantastic Four rights is clouding their judgment and causing them to make poor business decisions for their company. If the movie is basically a good Chronicle 2 then let the movie move forward as Chronicle 2. Many people liked Chronicle 1 and would happily go see Chronicle 2, rather then spending millions to turn this movie into some kind of Amalgamation of Fantastic Four & Chronicle 2 that is not going to please anyone. I feel like if Fox could only stop trying to hold onto the rights out of Spite to Marvel, then they would see what they have "Chronicle 2" and make the right business decision of scrapping Fantastic Four plans and move forward with what they have.

Surfer

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

I'm with fangz. All of this drama makes you wonder how Daredevil ever came home.

 

[Zarex]

It's obvious that Disney refused to throw them a lifeline. At this point, cut your losses. They still need a film that can be as big and wide enough in scope to effectively damage and kill off the brand before it reverts. If they spend the bare minimum and release an independent type film, it's not going to have that effect. Fox just needs to kill the brand off in the most efficient manner without spending too much, just enough such that the franchise is no longer profitable. That would be my goal based if I am Fox and I know the film can no longer be salvaged. But maybe they still feel they have something there if they keep working on it, enough to turn a profit.

There's no business reason for FOX killing off the FF as a franchise. They need to come to whatever deal they can make with Disney and move on.

Ticking off the Mouse, which can use its multiple mega franchises and Marvel shows on Netflix to schedule your Marvel licensed films out of existence, is even more foolish than greenlighting FFINO in the first place.

 

[Spiderine]

I'm with fangz. All of this drama makes you wonder how Daredevil ever came home.

Fox is so stupid and backwards had they kept Daredevil, he would be the one going on fantastic adventures to cosmic and dimensional places while FF would be the grounded and gritty street heroes.

 

[Flint Marko]

Fox is so stupid and backwards had they kept Daredevil, he would be the one going on fantastic adventures to cosmic and dimensional places while FF would be the grounded and gritty street heroes.

Lol true, and you'd still have people here defending them tooth and nail.

Yeah, I have a feeling Fox is going to lose their shirt on this movie. I mean I don't see how, (with all of the drama that has surrounded this movie and the lack of promoting it up until now) it is going to be a huge success in the Box Office no matter how much Fox throws at it money wise. The problems may have started partially because of a smaller budget, but they are now compounded by their lack of time left before the rights revert. So with little time left, it seems like they are now cutting corners by going back to do reshoots without rewriting the script first. They are basically just saying screw it lets just film a bunch of action scenes and throw it in there, because the movie going audience will never know the difference. I have no doubt if they are circumventing the rewrites necessary to make the Fantastic Four into a better movie, then they are just throwing money at action and special effects hoping to dazzle the movie going audience into wanting to see this movie. When is Fox going to realize you can not polish a turd as it just makes a mess. If they were smart they would just cut their losses on this film and let the rights revert. They stand to lose a whole lot more then the Fantastic Four rights, by pouring money into this money pit, as I am pretty sure at this point many fans like myself will not see this movie no matter what, and as the movie draws closer and the movie going audience becomes more aware of the problems surrounding this movie that they would be equally concerned about spending their hard earned money on this movie when there will be so many other better summer movies to choose from.

Surfer

Truth be told, I could see this movie doing well enough at the box office to warrant a sequel. It pains me to say that but if it finds it audience and even remotely appeases critics then it's good to make back it's budget and then some, and then we are guaranteed a sequel... I dunno, it's certainly within the realm of possibility.

 

[starscream22]

Don't Fox realise that this film is a money pit? They're just throwing away good money after bad to try and fix this thing. At what point does it not become worth it and they decide to cut their losses? Or maybe they never will in this case.

They made $5.5B last year so loosing out on $25M won't really hurt their bottom line apparently which is why they decided to go the Chronicle route (cheap) with this film in the first place.

Upper management wanted to keep the rights first and for most apparently. There's no doubt in my mind that they were bitter about Disney acquiring Star Wars. So letting this franchise revert back w/o some type of blood sacrifice isn't likely to happen unfortunately.

 

[Surfer]

Lol true, and you'd still have people here defending them tooth and nail.

Truth be told, I could see this movie doing well enough at the box office to warrant a sequel. It pains me to say that but if it finds it audience and even remotely appeases critics then it's good to make back it's budget and then some, and then we are guaranteed a sequel... I dunno, it's certainly within the realm of possibility.

Their original idea Fox had was to make the movie for as little as they could, so they would retain the rights and down the line they would perhaps make a better Fantastic Four movie as a reboot once again. However, after viewing the movie the upper echelon of Fox know there is a problem and probably think either it will not fulfill the rights obligation as is, or that they currently will have even too big of a bomb in the box office for their small budget. So they decide in the 11th hour to start throwing money at it in hopes of making it a decent movie. However, it sounds like they are cutting corners to achieve their time line and in the end the movie may not even be any better for it. So, as a result I highly doubt they will even break even, never mind make enough for a sequel.

Surfer

 

[Mr.M]

There's no business reason for FOX killing off the FF as a franchise. They need to come to whatever deal they can make with Disney and move on.

Ticking off the Mouse, which can use its multiple mega franchises and Marvel shows on Netflix to schedule your Marvel licensed films out of existence, is even more foolish than greenlighting FFINO in the first place.

That's what you want. Fox isn't trying to salvage this film. They may simply be trying to finish it. There has been no marketing or promo whatsoever. This is completely un-salvageable. Best to irreparably damage the brand and not let Disney make a dime out of it. That's my thinking if I am an executive over there. If I am Kinberg, I just tote the line and play the politician role, so that I don't tick off the fanbase or my bosses by investing any further in this. Kinberg has the most difficult role, because he knows he can't sell this to any true fan that has a clue. But it is not Kinberg's fault, as he has to do what is best for himself and his company.

 

[Dark Raven]

I think the people in charge at Fox, their desire to keep the Fantastic Four rights is clouding their judgment and causing them to make poor business decisions for their company. If the movie is basically a good Chronicle 2 then let the movie move forward as Chronicle 2. Many people liked Chronicle 1 and would happily go see Chronicle 2, rather then spending millions to turn this movie into some kind of Amalgamation of Fantastic Four & Chronicle 2 that is not going to please anyone. I feel like if Fox could only stop trying to hold onto the rights out of Spite to Marvel, then they would see what they have "Chronicle 2" and make the right business decision of scrapping Fantastic Four plans and move forward with what they have.

Surfer

That would be the only way to salvage this movie with one simple solution: change the name of the movie to Chronicle 2. It's simple enough and staring them in the face, but because they can't see the wood for the trees and want it to be Fantastic Four, that's what's causing them all kinds of problems. And because they already have what is essentially Chronicle 2, that is why it is completely justified to call this Fantastic Four in Name Only.

But here's an idea: what if their reshoots are to turn it completely into Chronicle 2 and change any of the references to FF and complete the story as a Chronicle sequel? Could Fox have enough sense to do that? Nah. That would be wishful thinking. It's more likely the more stupid option they're going for of trying to add in senseless action into FF's third act.

 

[Miken Ayers]

I'm with fangz. All of this drama makes you wonder how Daredevil ever came home.

This is exactly why Daredevil went back to Marvel. Fox was closer to starting up their Daredevil reboot than they were with Fantastic Four. They tried to negotiate an extension and Marvel asked for FF in place of DD. Fox said no, and so Marvel asked for Galactus and Silver Surfer, and Fox said bye to Daredevil.

So Fox wanted to keep Fantastic Four mainly because Marvel wanted it, and probably saw the FF as some untapped resource for blockbusters. The problem is that at this point and Marvel property is more valuable in Marvel's hands than another studio.

 

[RAE072]

There's no business reason for FOX killing off the FF as a franchise.

There doesn't have to be a business reason. FOX is made up of people, and people can be spiteful bastards.

 

[starscream22]

Kinberg has the most difficult role, because he knows he can't sell this to any true fan that has a clue.

Which makes his "Be like Marvel" comment that much more pathetic.

I have no real sympathy for'em. Instead of trying to "be like Marvel" he should've tied to join them instead of betting on the wrong horse.

As a result he just sounds like the annoying talking head that Mark Miller was.

 

[starscream22]

There doesn't have to be a business reason. FOX is made up of people, and people can be spiteful b*stards.

Exactly, Fox may have lost Star Wars the hate continues to flow through them.

 

[metaphysician]

This is exactly why Daredevil went back to Marvel. Fox was closer to starting up their Daredevil reboot than they were with Fantastic Four. They tried to negotiate an extension and Marvel asked for FF in place of DD. Fox said no, and so Marvel asked for Galactus and Silver Surfer, and Fox said bye to Daredevil.

So Fox wanted to keep Fantastic Four mainly because Marvel wanted it, and probably saw the FF as some untapped resource for blockbusters. The problem is that at this point and Marvel property is more valuable in Marvel's hands than another studio.

They didn't even deliberately say "bye" to Daredevil. They just screwed up, and when the director left at the last minute, they couldn't get production started again soon enough.

Sadly, I don't think anything short of Trank getting extremely drunk and then burning all copies of the footage would be able to derail the movie at this point.

 

[Mr.M]

Which makes his "Be like Marvel" comment that much more pathetic.

I have no real sympathy for'em. Instead of trying to "be like Marvel" he should've tied to join them instead of betting on the wrong horse.

As a result he just sounds like the annoying talking head that Mark Miller was.

Kinberg still has a decent job, unlike Millar, who knows what the **** he's doing these days. Anybody that gets to pen an X-Men Cinematic Universe has a decent job by fanboy standards. Obviously, Kinberg is continuing to do something right. You can't win every war. Kinberg knows the politics, unlike Millar, who is the king of flip floppers in the comicbook world.

 

[def28]

Kinberg still has a decent job, unlike Millar, who knows what the **** he's doing these days. Anybody that gets to pen an X-Men Cinematic Universe has a decent job by fanboy standards. Obviously, Kinberg is continuing to do something right. You can't win every war. Kinberg knows the politics, unlike Millar, who is the king of flip floppers in the comicbook world.

He may bs or whatever, but as far as his projects go Wanted, and Kick Ass were a success. Kingsmen is getting solid reviews and strong fan wom. And on top of the multiple creator owned comics he's had in the past few years, Starlight is now being adapted by Fox as well. Millar is more successful then hes ever been as far as I'm concerned.

With the exception of DOFP and Sherlock Holmes Kinberg does not have a good resume. He has a sick gig at Disney and Fox right now, but I have no idea how that guy got them with his previous credits.

 

[Miken Ayers]

They didn't even deliberately say "bye" to Daredevil. They just screwed up, and when the director left at the last minute, they couldn't get production started again soon enough.

Sadly, I don't think anything short of Trank getting extremely drunk and then burning all copies of the footage would be able to derail the movie at this point.

It seemed they wanted to keep Fantastic Four and were willing to sacrifice Daredevil simply because Marvel wanted them. Beyond announcing the Fantastic Four reboot in 09, the project was dead in the water.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

This is exactly why Daredevil went back to Marvel. Fox was closer to starting up their Daredevil reboot than they were with Fantastic Four. They tried to negotiate an extension and Marvel asked for FF in place of DD. Fox said no, and so Marvel asked for Galactus and Silver Surfer, and Fox said bye to Daredevil.

So Fox wanted to keep Fantastic Four mainly because Marvel wanted it, and probably saw the FF as some untapped resource for blockbusters. The problem is that at this point and Marvel property is more valuable in Marvel's hands than another studio.

Good point. Marvel showed their hand by asking for those two characters. Fox thinks they can build their own version of the Avengers. Corporate heads would probably roll if they let FF lapse and then Marvel goes and turns it into a billion dollar asset. I agree that it is far less valuable in their hands than Marvel's. This is truly a dog in the manger type situation.

 

[Dark Raven]

Good point. Marvel showed their hand by asking for those two characters. Fox thinks they can build their own version of the Avengers. Corporate heads would probably roll if they let FF lapse and then Marvel goes and turns it into a billion dollar asset. I agree that it is far less valuable in their hands than Marvel's. This is truly a dog in the manger type situation.

And keeping this movie hidden in this way, what we'll get ultimately is a pig in a poke.

Fox is truly an animal house.

 

[Dasher10]

Good point. Marvel showed their hand by asking for those two characters. Fox thinks they can build their own version of the Avengers. Corporate heads would probably roll if they let FF lapse and then Marvel goes and turns it into a billion dollar asset. I agree that it is far less valuable in their hands than Marvel's. This is truly a dog in the manger type situation.

Fox already has their own version of the Avengers. they're called the X-Men. They already have a franchise that built the careers of Hugh Jackman, Shawn Ashmore, Ellen Page, Jennifer Lawrence, James McAvoy and Michael Fassbender. These people would be nothing if not for the X-Men.

Fox also has its own version of the Guardians of the Galaxy. They're called the Fantastic Four. I'm really hoping the trailer works just as I hope that Doom isn't as bad as I fear he'll be.

 

[Human Torch]

FF just isn't a good fit at Fox. It would be wise for them to reconcile to this fact and move on. X-Men is tailor made for them.They have a virtually unlimited supply of characters and epic storylines to draw from. Plus, you can get away with being far more grim & gritty ( no pesky "colorful" costumes, dropping an F bomb every film- which seems a prerequisite now) with X-Men. FF is color and fantasy and family adventure.It's something tailor made for Marvel,and both studios know it.

But,Fox will continue to hold on to FF no doubt.I'd like to know exactly how they plan to spawn a "universe" out of it. We already know they are deathly afraid of trying to do comic accurate villains (Doom, Galactus) and they don't have FF spin off characters at their disposal (Inhumans,Black Panther). The most they can hope for is a Silver Surfer spin off. Good Luck with that.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Fox already has their own version of the Avengers. they're called the X-Men. They already have a franchise that built the careers of Hugh Jackman, Shawn Ashmore, Ellen Page, Jennifer Lawrence, James McAvoy and Michael Fassbender. These people would be nothing if not for the X-Men.

Fox also has its own version of the Guardians of the Galaxy. They're called the Fantastic Four. I'm really hoping the trailer works just as I hope that Doom isn't as bad as I fear he'll be.

Wake me when X-Men grosses at least a billion and Gambit and Deadpool become household names. The much vaunted Days of Future Past featured a budget north of $200 million and the convergence of two all star casts and domestically it still couldn't even beat Ratner's The Last Stand despite 3D ticket sales and 8 years of inflation.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Also I would hardly give credit to X-Men for Jennifer Lawrence's rise to stardom. A little film series called The Hunger Games might have had something to do with that along with her Oscar. I feel Ellen Page established herself with the acclaimed film Juno. I'd probably take exception with the others as well but will definitely agree on Jackman. X-Men put him on the map.