The Me Too Movement: The Sexual Harassment and Assault Thread

[Holiday]

As I said earlier, I don't think it's an easy thing for a victim of sexual assault to go to the police. Adding the factor of going against a major TV star with your accusation, it's clear how someone could feel scared or intimidated. But my point is, it makes little sense to complain about these men getting away with this behavior for so long in the court of law when there were no criminal charges against them (to my knowledge) for 2-3 decades. Which Electra has done twice now.

 

[PacificBoy]

As I said earlier, I don't think it's an easy thing for a victim of sexual assault to go to the police. Adding the factor of going against a major TV star with your accusation, it's clear how someone could feel scared or intimidated. But my point is, it makes little sense to complain about these men getting away with this behavior for so long in the court of law when there were no criminal charges against them (to my knowledge) for 2-3 decades. Which Electra has done twice now.

The articles I've linked shows that police reports have been lodged and suits filed throughout the period. Just that nothing had stuck until recently, when changing attitudes and the rise of social media brought a certain parity to the proceedings.

To your point about what Elektra1 said, I took it as her expressing frustration with a legal system, already gamed in favour of powerful people, that's further buttressed by how society views sexual assault through the lens of reasonable doubt.

 

[Holiday]

The articles I've linked shows that police reports have been lodged and suits filed throughout the period. Just that nothing had stuck until recently, when changing attitudes and the rise of social media brought a certain parity to the proceedings.

To your point about what Elektra1 said, I took it as her expressing frustration with a legal system, already gamed in favour of powerful people, that's further buttressed by how society views sexual assault through the lens of reasonable doubt.

Throughout which period? The first allegation I see in either article is from 2005 where the accuser went to police and then filed a civil suit after she was told there was not enough evidence to prosecute in a criminal case. Some number of civil suits have followed until 2014 or whenever he was finally criminally charged. He can't be sent to prison based on the results of a civil suit.

I understand her frustration but it's a faulty comparison shes trying to make. It's like arguing the police didn't arrest someone for a crime no one reported.

 

[PacificBoy]

Throughout which period? The first allegation I see in either article is from 2005 where the accuser went to police and then filed a civil suit after she was told there was not enough evidence to prosecute in a criminal case. Some number of civil suits have followed until 2014 or whenever he was finally criminally charged. He can't be sent to prison based on the results of a civil suit.

I understand her frustration but it's a faulty comparison shes trying to make. It's like arguing the police didn't arrest someone for a crime no one reported.

Yes, what constitutes criminal activity and what is an injustice is being conflated, although I don't think it's necessarily a faulty comparison because the social climate in the past meant that lodging a police report wouldn't have been seen as a viable recourse by the victims in question, and that any kind of charges wrought have taken a long and winding route through changing times and norms.

Anyway, this is my last say on this, since I think we're broadly on the same page, just quibbling over what Elektra1 said.

 

[Donner]

And I'll pipe in to say that Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby were the worst kept secrets and they got away with it for decades. You can cite a lack of police reports as some kind of justification, but it was the culture as a whole that allowed it and only now is that culture being challenged.

These women have stated that their careers would have been in jeopardy if they came forward and they were told to keep quiet. I will argue against any claim that states had they come forward at the time of the incidents, Weinstein and Cosby would have been subject to consequences. Please.

 

[Holiday]

And I'll pipe in to say that Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby were the worst kept secrets and they got away with it for decades. You can cite a lack of police reports as some kind of justification, but it was the culture as a whole that allowed it and only now is that culture being challenged.

These women have stated that their careers would have been in jeopardy if they came forward and they were told to keep quiet. I will argue against any claim that states had they come forward at the time of the incidents, Weinstein and Cosby would have been subject to consequences. Please.

I'm only citing the lack of police reports as cause of a lack of criminal prosecution.

I'll add that I don't think Bill Cosby would have had a family TV show in the 80s if he had been publicly accused of sexual assault in the 60s and 70s, though I think he sadly could've still had a career in entertainment depending on certain factors.

 

[PacificBoy]

I'll add that I don't think Bill Cosby would have had a family TV show in the 80s if he had been publicly accused of sexual assault in the 60s and 70s, though I think he sadly could've still had a career in entertainment depending on certain factors.

It's possible, but I think the Hollywood machine would have quashed any story given how Cosby was being primed for superstardom in the 60s and 70s. Coupled with how little agency women had then, public accusations would have likely not seen the light of day. And if any seeped through, it'd had been on the back pages of tabloids and easily dismissed as Hollywood tattle.

 

[Holiday]

It's possible, but I think the Hollywood machine would have quashed any story given how Cosby was being primed for superstardom in the 60s and 70s. Coupled with how little agency women had then, public accusations would have likely not seen the light of day. And if any seeped through, it'd had been on the back pages of tabloids and easily dismissed as Hollywood tattle.

You're probably right. I was reading sometime earlier that the phrase "sexual harassment" was coined in 1975 so that may be an indicator that the attitude then was barely starting to come around to taking the issue seriously.

 

[terry78]

The 70s was pretty much the time when women and other races in general actually started getting more rights, which is also when the clashes about said rights started up debate wise.

 

[Kane52630]

Apparently this commercial is problematic.

https://www.usmagazine.com/food/news/jack-in-the-box-ad-about-jacks-bowls-slammed-online/

 

[Pink Ranger]

Apparently this commercial is problematic.

https://www.usmagazine.com/food/news/jack-in-the-box-ad-about-jacks-bowls-slammed-online/

So apparently stealing an Alec Baldwin/Molly Shannon/Ana Gasteyer joke from SNL for a commercial is now part of #metoo now? Great way to not water down the movement.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

That Jack In The Box still exists is problematic.

 

[TheVileOne]

Everything is problematic now.

 

[Greens]

How do people who find that commercial problematic even survive on a day-to-day basis?

 

[DeadPresident]

By venting on Tumblr.

 

[Erzengel]

How do people who find that commercial problematic even survive on a day-to-day basis?

Cause I think people live for that "gotcha" moment.

 

[Donner]

This reminds me of ACDC's "Big Balls" song.

When you want to be a censorship dickwad, remember to go after innuendo too. That way, no one can have any fun.

 

[Schlosser85]

“Problematic” is the most annoyingly overused word on the internet.

 

[Black Narcissus]

That Jack In The Box still exists is problematic.

I vaguely remember the actress who played his wife was really hnnngh.

 

[jmc]

People finding that add offensive are really going to struggle in this world.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

How many of them are there really? I mean... If this wasn't posted in this thread would any of us even know about the "outrage"? Is a handful of tweets expressing that the tweeters are "outraged" really indicative of the entirety of #MeToo as a movement? It's more indicative of an outrage industrial complex aided by click bait to me. Those that get "outraged" by the "outrage" sometimes, hell, often come off not too dissimilar to the people whose action they claim to find so, uh, outrageous.

As an example... A Paralympic athlete made a fuss about the Rock playing an amputee in his movie Skyscraper. Okay... I don't agree with the point of view but that was this woman's prerogative. Thing is I wouldn't have even heard about this except for the pearl clutching that followed from those that had issue with her "outrage". All over on ALL sides it feels like mountains out of molehills is just SOP because we simply must take issue to score points on... something?

 

[samsnee]

So apparently stealing an Alec Baldwin/Molly Shannon/Ana Gasteyer joke from SNL for a commercial is now part of #metoo now? Great way to not water down the movement.

Schwetty Balls is a classic. Don’t touch my Schwetty Balls.

 

[Schlosser85]

How many of them are there really? I mean... If this wasn't posted in this thread would any of us even know about the "outrage"? Is a handful of tweets expressing that the tweeters are "outraged" really indicative of the entirety of #MeToo as a movement? It's more indicative of an outrage industrial complex aided by click bait to me. Those that get "outraged" by the "outrage" sometimes, hell, often come off not too dissimilar to the people whose action they claim to find so, uh, outrageous.

As an example... A Paralympic athlete made a fuss about the Rock playing an amputee in his movie Skyscraper. Okay... I don't agree with the point of view but that was this woman's prerogative. Thing is I wouldn't have even heard about this except for the pearl clutching that followed from those that had issue with her "outrage". All over on ALL sides it feels like mountains out of molehills is just SOP because we simply must take issue to score points on... something?

I like to think they are a small, obnoxiously loud minority, but they get emboldened when people cave to them instead of telling them to **** off.

 

[TheVileOne]

I won't post the Randy Orton thing here, but it's pretty disgusting. Like...yeah...

 

[batdude]

How many of them are there really? I mean... If this wasn't posted in this thread would any of us even know about the "outrage"? Is a handful of tweets expressing that the tweeters are "outraged" really indicative of the entirety of #MeToo as a movement? It's more indicative of an outrage industrial complex aided by click bait to me. Those that get "outraged" by the "outrage" sometimes, hell, often come off not too dissimilar to the people whose action they claim to find so, uh, outrageous.

As an example... A Paralympic athlete made a fuss about the Rock playing an amputee in his movie Skyscraper. Okay... I don't agree with the point of view but that was this woman's prerogative. Thing is I wouldn't have even heard about this except for the pearl clutching that followed from those that had issue with her "outrage". All over on ALL sides it feels like mountains out of molehills is just SOP because we simply must take issue to score points on... something?

Well, there is an issue with not casting enough disabled actors. The main issue with that was that while that woman could have played a supporting part, Let's face it. No way would they have replaced the Rock with an unknown woman. Not enough disabled represntatiation bothers me, bt yo have to be smart about it.