The Official Devil May Cry Thread

[Wolvieboy17]

No, you're entirely misrepresenting what i said, I'm talking about the vocal, outraged fans who are influencing other fans rather then letting them form their own opinion.

With any new game or version of a new game, there would be a lot of fence sitters and this game has had an image problem from day 1. There's a difference between a fan 'voting with their wallet' and doing their best to sabotage the success of this game, which is whats been going on. You can't look at any youtube video or online review without comments being spammed by these people.

If you don't like the idea of this game, obviously don't buy it, I'm not saying you have to. What I am saying is you don't then need to make it your personal mission to tell everyone you know and then some that this game is the anti-christ. That's when you lose all credibility and you're just being spiteful, thus falling into the entitle fan camp. You've made it about more than yourself, you've entered into the 'forcefully telling people how to think' camp and then you're definitely justifiably open to criticism.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

No, you're entirely misrepresenting what i said, I'm talking about the vocal, outraged fans who are influencing other fans rather then letting them form their own opinion.

With any new game or version of a new game, there would be a lot of fence sitters and this game has had an image problem from day 1. There's a difference between a fan 'voting with their wallet' and doing their best to sabotage the success of this game, which is whats been going on. You can't look at any youtube video or online review without comments being spammed by these people.

If you don't like the idea of this game, obviously don't buy it, I'm not saying you have to. What I am saying is you don't then need to make it your personal mission to tell everyone you know and then some that this game is the anti-christ. That's when you lose all credibility and you're just being spiteful, thus falling into the entitle fan camp. You've made it about more than yourself, you've entered into the 'forcefully telling people how to think' camp and then you're definitely justifiably open to criticism.

How does this in anyway stop someone from buying the game? If people aren't smart enough to disregard pure fanboy rage, that is on them. The image problem was their fault. They marketed it, they insulted people, they made it the way it is.

This also goes back to Nathan's point. If everyone, from NT to Capcom to those that were defending this game before it came out (even though you seem to say the marketing was terrible and wouldn't suggest a game worth buying), where right, then this miniscule minority of vocal of fans wouldn't have had any effect on this game.

The old franchise was stale and people, fans or not, were looking for something different. It got good reviews. And yet it hasn't sold well at all.

If these fans have so much power, they should get right on making having Platinum make Devil May Cry 5. It is going to sell like hot cakes. t:

 

[Nathan]

No, you're entirely misrepresenting what i said, I'm talking about the vocal, outraged fans who are influencing other fans rather then letting them form their own opinion.

With any new game or version of a new game, there would be a lot of fence sitters and this game has had an image problem from day 1. There's a difference between a fan 'voting with their wallet' and doing their best to sabotage the success of this game, which is whats been going on. You can't look at any youtube video or online review without comments being spammed by these people.

Were people also actively at fault for Heavenly Sword and Enslaved not selling well? The game got mostly good reviews. Why would people get influenced by people spamming youtube comments, over reviews that are well articulately written?

If you don't like the idea of this game, obviously don't buy it, I'm not saying you have to. What I am saying is you don't then need to make it your personal mission to tell everyone you know and then some that this game is the anti-christ. That's when you lose all credibility and you're just being spiteful, thus falling into the entitle fan camp. You've made it about more than yourself, you've entered into the 'forcefully telling people how to think' camp and then you're definitely justifiably open to criticism.

I think Capcom and Ninja Theory are at fault for this happening to the degree that it did. If they didn't give fans figuratively the finger and literally told them that they don't care what fans think, the backlash wouldn't have nearly been as big. When you know fans are angry, you try to calm them down, assure them that the spirit lives on, that they'll try their best to bring into the game what made Devil May Cry fun in the first place. You try to do damage control to the max. You don't kick fans when they are down, you don't treat them like dirt, you don't insult the franchise that build a loyal fan base and act like you can do so much better. Is it wrong to make it your active mission to tell people the game is ****? Yeah. But Capcom did nothing to discourage such behavior. Heck, I bet they counted on the outrage, to give the game a lot more publicity.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Ninja Theory's games are over hyped and overpraised by the media. Even when they are good, they are made to look elite, which they aren't. People see them and or play them and are turned off. There is clearly a disconnect here. If they are so good and they are praised so much, why do people keep turning away from them?

 

[Wolvieboy17]

I don't remember Enslaved getting glowing reviews and Heavenly Sword mainly got well reviewed because it was just one of the few PS3 console exclusives.

I don't think anyone is acting like NT are the second coming of christ but the general consensus among reviewers is that at the very least, they've made a good game.

If you ask me, that's still the best Capcom could hope for these days. In my statements I'm not defending Capcom, I find them a puzzling company who seem very lost at the moment, but as a game I still think DmC is quite good and it's a shame that a potentially great new series will suffer because of Capcoms mismanagement.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I don't remember Enslaved getting glowing reviews and Heavenly Sword mainly got well reviewed because it was just one of the few PS3 console exclusives.

I don't think anyone is acting like NT are the second coming of christ but the general consensus among reviewers is that at the very least, they've made a good game.

If you ask me, that's still the best Capcom could hope for these days. In my statements I'm not defending Capcom, I find them a puzzling company who seem very lost at the moment, but as a game I still think DmC is quite good and it's a shame that a potentially great new series will suffer because of Capcoms mismanagement.

Enslaved has an 82 on metacritic and Heavenly Sword a 79. Anyone who has played Heavenly Sword knows how underwhelming it was.

No, there was a clear attempt to "shut the fanboys up" with many reviews. Taking shots at people upset with the new game as opposed to actually reviewing it.

Thus the pendulum swings the opposite way. Why? Because most video game "journalist" aren't journalist. They are fans who rarely act professional or show an ability to express themselves beyond those normal fanboy adjectives. They take criticism of their criticism to heart. There is no objectivity. If people were calling this a good game and not taking unnecessary and completely wrong pot shots at the old series and its fans, you'd might have a point, but that isn't what has happened.

This game came out with baggage on both sides.

 

[zenith16]

Hmm DarthSkywalker can you name me the review sites or reviewers that did complain about the fans in their reviews? I noticed that you only named like two places that you said "didn't diss " the fans of the original series and I'm sure there that they weren't the only ones.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Hmm DarthSkywalker can you name me the review site or reviewers that did complain about the fans in their reviews? I notice that you only named like two place that you said "didn't diss " the fans and I'm sure there weren't the only ones.

Those weren't about dissing fans. The two reviews I named where the ones I simply thought were the most balance and well informed. They express themselves past the base, though in vastly different styles. I'd add Sessler's to that list.

Go and read the Kotaku review. It starts out by taking a shot at fans. More importantly go and read the articles about how fans have somehow done DmC wrong by not buying it or those that boil fans dislike for the new game down to simply what color Dante's hair is. You can find the look or hair potshot in almost any review. These are the same people that praise the gameplay and then ignore valid complaints about it.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/capcom-almost-halves-dmc-sales-expectations/0110372

http://kotaku.com/5975666/dmc-the-kotaku-review

http://www.vg247.com/2013/01/15/dmc-devil-may-cry-fans-are-a-crying-shame/

Someone even had the stones to write that Devil May Cry fans might have been responsible for Enslaved bad sales.

http://thesilentchief.com/2011/02/0...s-partially-to-blame-for-poor-enslaved-sales/

These two articles sum up why it is ridiculous.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...e-call-people-who-complain-about-video-games/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2013/02/05/are-fans-to-blame-for-lower-than-expected-dmc-sales/

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Ninja Theory's games are over hyped and overpraised by the media.

Enslaved has an 82 on metacritic and Heavenly Sword a 79. Anyone who has played Heavenly Sword knows how underwhelming it was.

Not glowing review and overpraised game scores

 

[zenith16]

Ok cool, that's what I wanted to know. So out of those that's still a certain number but unfortuneitly it sounded like larger majority when you were talking just then before that.


Cause like I said along time ago with you when you were mentioning Sesslers review, I said that there was another review even though they gave it decent scores in the range of 8's they explained in video that it didn't satisfy them in way the originals did to some points and they still had issues with it.

But it was still a fun game and worth the buy. And they were respectful to fans Also. so we can't group them all in one place .


I understand and I do agree capcom has done a wrong ( abandoning the main fan base of which I feel should never be done, But it happens alot in other area's of the entertainment industry ) and (some parts of capcom so they claim) there was misinterpretation from what they thought fans wanted from former complaints.

I just don't see my saying the words all "Journalist" when not all of them do this. That is a select area that said this.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Not glowing review and overpraised game scores

Those games aren't that good. Hence overpraise.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Ok cool, that's what I wanted to know. So out of those that's still a certain number but unfortuneitly it sounded like larger majority when you were talking just then before that.


Cause like I said along time ago with you when you were mentioning Sesslers review, I said that there was another review even though they gave it decent scores in the range of 8's they explained in video that it didn't satisfy them in way the originals did to some points and they still had issues with it.

But it was still a fun game and worth the buy. And they were respectful to fans Also. so we can't group them all in one place .


I understand and I do agree capcom has done a wrong ( abandoning the main fan base of which I feel should never be done, But it happens alot in other area's of the entertainment industry ) and (some parts of capcom so they claim) there was misinterpretation from what they thought fans wanted from former complaints.

I just don't see my saying the words all "Journalist" when not all of them do this. that a a select area that said this.

You are right, there are a lot of measured reviews. But I don't think they get into the meat of the issues of the gameplay.

With a lot of journalist more then anything is how they hand out a relativity high score and start talking about the combat in broad strokes. They tell you how fast, stylish and great it is, and it reads like they clearly have never taken the time to learn how these kind of games work. Take any review from Metacritic and it will more then likely be there. There are clear problems and holes, especially if he have played games like Ninja Gaiden, Devil May Cry 3, or Bayonetta at a competent level.

A game like Ninja Gaiden 2 kills this game in terms of gameplay, but was a clear letdown for those that played both releases of the first game on the X-Box (Sigma was good, but a slight disappoint).

It is like reading a review on a fighting game from someone that doesn't understand how they work.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Your problem is that you're still viewing this game in comparison to other games, like this game was SUPPOSED to be like them. Many people, particularly casual gamers, find those games incredibly alienating. Not everyone WANTS a game with such a steep learning curve or difficulty and its those people that this game was clearly aimed towards.

There's nothing wrong with the philosophy of a game that's easy to pick up and play but more challenging to master. Thats why this game has so many difficulty settings. It's not trying to be a Ninja Gaiden or a Bayonetta. It may bear the name of Devil May Cry but Capcom have been on record that they wanted something new, to capture a new audience and thats what has happened.

That's not Ninja Theory's fault. As far as what they were meant to do, they accomplished it. The mistake was clearly in relying on the name of the franchise alone to carry weight when it wasn't the core fans of the original series this game was based towards. Just another franchise poorly managed by Capcom.

But again, just because the game isn't what you want it to be like doesn't make it bad, just not for you but again, it never TRIED to be.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Your problem is that you're still viewing this game in comparison to other games, like this game was SUPPOSED to be like them. Many people, particularly casual gamers, find those games incredibly alienating. Not everyone WANTS a game with such a steep learning curve or difficulty and its those people that this game was clearly aimed towards.

There's nothing wrong with the philosophy of a game that's easy to pick up and play but more challenging to master. Thats why this game has so many difficulty settings. It's not trying to be a Ninja Gaiden or a Bayonetta. It may bear the name of Devil May Cry but Capcom have been on record that they wanted something new, to capture a new audience and thats what has happened.

That's not Ninja Theory's fault. As far as what they were meant to do, they accomplished it. The mistake was clearly in relying on the name of the franchise alone to carry weight when it wasn't the core fans of the original series this game was based towards. Just another franchise poorly managed by Capcom.

But again, just because the game isn't what you want it to be like doesn't make it bad, just not for you but again, it never TRIED to be.

Uh, they brought up Bayonetta. Specifically the gameplay.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/new...evil-May-Cry-Reboot-to-Compete-with-Bayonetta

Alex Jones, a producer at Capcom, acknowledges that, despite overt similarities, Devil May Cry is a distinct beast from Bayonetta, particularly when it comes to narrative and tone. At the same time, Jones wants the reboot to deliver where it counts. "You always want to go out there and beat your competitor to some degree," he says. "[How] does the game feel when it's in your hand? We absolutely want the same fluidity of control that's a standard setting [for Bayonetta]." While Jones seems to have a lot of respect for Sega's sexy heroine, he doesn't feel that she has a monopoly on the stylized action game. In particular, he cites Dante's newfound ability to "rip apart the world and manipulate it ... Some areas we're offering something different."

Should I start singing turnout the lights?

It isn't simply difficulty, it is about there being something to learn. You can play those games on the easiest difficulties and get through them just slap people if that is really what you want. I spent the last week playing Rising. It is rather easy on on normal and below. But once you start moving up, mastery of elements of the gameplay become essential. You need to learn to parry, you need to learn the combos. The beauty of Bayonetta is how fluid it is and how that effects the very nature of the gameplay. Each weapon is distinct and works.

That does not happen with DmC, no matter what difficulty you play it on.

 

[Nathan]

The problem was really that they took Devil May Cry and tried to make it casual, when they build a loyal fan base over 4 games. It should have been an entirely new IP, and I'm surprised they didn't create a new one, since Capcom started to care about building new and unique IPs.

Wasn't this the same problem with Ninja Gaiden 3? It wasn't a reboot, but they dumbed down the difficulty, made it more accessible, and as a result the game wasn't as well received as the previous games. What happened next? They announced Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge, that was basically an apology note to the fans and tried to redeem the franchise again.

If there's one thing that the Indie scene and games like Dark Souls have proven, is that you don't need to dumb games down, make them easy and accessible for the casual audience, to make them sell.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The problem was really that they took Devil May Cry and tried to make it casual, when they build a loyal fan base over 4 games. It should have been an entirely new IP, and I'm surprised they didn't create a new one, since Capcom started to care about building new and unique IPs.

Wasn't this the same problem with Ninja Gaiden 3? It wasn't a reboot, but they dumbed down the difficulty, made it more accessible, and as a result the game wasn't as well received as the previous games. What happened next? They announced Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge, that was basically an apology note to the fans and tried to redeem the franchise again.

If there's one thing that the Indie scene and games like Dark Souls have proven, is that you don't need to dumb games down, make them easy and accessible for the casual audience, to make them sell.

Ninja Gaiden 3 has a lot of problems. It wasn't that it was easy. It still had some challenge, but it was for the wrong reasons. Projectile spam is not a beautiful thing. They also messed up fundamental stuff like a lack of variety of weapons and attacks. They also simply just a lot of stuff that is broken in it and doesn't make sense. In the first 2 Ninja Gaidens you could fight offensively if you were good enough. You could enforce your will on your opponent, no matter how difficult they were. There are plenty of enemies in Ninja Gaiden 3 you just can't attack or approach in any real way other then 1.

Dark Souls 2 scares me for that exact reason by the way. They have mentioned making it more "accessible". I hope they mean story wise, and not gameplay wise.

 

[Spade]

The "problem", to me, is simple- the face of Ninja Theory insinuated the fanbase had bad taste. No matter if you loved or hated it, you have to admit that Tameem's initial remarks did no favors for this game. The big dislike bar you see on the YouTube uploads leading up to its release? That's not just complaints about Dante's hair color. They bungled the first impression so bad that many fans refuse to play the game on principle alone. Petty? Yeah. Necessary? No, not at all.

Granted, the backlash to a reboot was always going to be fierce. But it didn't have to be this bad. Metal Gear Rising, another action game that also did an about-face from the IP its based off of, sold well enough that a sequel is practically confirmed. The difference? One developer had this approach. The other didn't.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Ugh and Metal Gear Rising sucks compared to DmC too... I hate it.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

Granted, the backlash to a reboot was always going to be fierce. But it didn't have to be this bad. Metal Gear Rising, another action game that also did an about-face from the IP its based off of, sold well enough that a sequel is practically confirmed. The difference? One developer had this approach. The other didn't.

Those are two completely different situations tho. I dont think many people were expecting Raiden to come out and star in the same type of game Snake had been in, especially after Raidens alterations in MGS4. Fans of the old Devil May Cry games made up their minds a looooooong time ago that they weren't going to bite on this game. All this talk of well Capcom should of said this and NT should of done this is horse s**t. It didn't matter what was said or done, old school DMC fans weren't biting. And thats fine, they didn't have to, but saying they didn't buy into the game because "Capcom gave them the middle finger" is complete bs and everyone using that weak argument knows it.

I mean just scroll through this thread and you can see why the game hasnt been accepted by the the old school DMC community. Ya got a few old school DMC fans who have still yet to touch the game giving their opinions on it, some reveling in the fact its been a sales disaster and ya got an individual who has so completely run into a wall with his argument that he's resorted to blaming game journalist saying they dont "understand" this type of game. You honestly need look no further as to what happened with this game. All the answers are right here.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Ugh and Metal Gear Rising sucks compared to DmC too... I hate it.

Funny. I love Rising and find it to be a much better game. The VR missions are better then DmC.

Those are two completely different situations tho. I dont think many people were expecting Raiden to come out and star in the same type of game Snake had been in, especially after Raidens alterations in MGS4. Fans of the old Devil May Cry games made up their minds a looooooong time ago that they weren't going to bite on this game. All this talk of well Capcom should of said this and NT should of done this is horse s**t. It didn't matter what was said or done, old school DMC fans weren't biting. And thats fine, they didn't have to, but saying they didn't buy into the game because "Capcom gave them the middle finger" is complete bs and everyone using that weak argument knows it.

I mean just scroll through this thread and you can see why the game hasnt been accepted by the the old school DMC community. Ya got a few old school DMC fans who have still yet to touch the game giving their opinions on it, some reveling in the fact its been a sales disaster and ya got an individual who has so completely run into a wall with his argument that he's resorted to blaming game journalist saying they dont "understand" this type of game. You honestly need look no further as to what happened with this game. All the answers are right here.

You should read some comments. Many Metal Gear "fans" question the game's very existence because it doesn't fit the usual Metal Gear gameplay and genre. Did either company go out of their way to insult the fans? Nope. They just finished their game. The DmC fans going around bad mouthing Rising is also classic. The metacritic fan review made me belly laugh.

And once again, it is everyone else who is at fault.

They are making this new, fresh game that casuals will love and they don't need the whiny fans. And then casuals want nothing to do with it. You can't write this stuff.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Ugh and Metal Gear Rising sucks compared to DmC too... I hate it.

You didn't need to compare it to a game you enjoy like that

 

[Jick]

I see people talking about being "insulted" or "offended" or that they were offered the "middle finger". Seriously? Are you so easily aggrieved towards a game? Shouldn't you find more important things to care for?

If they had transformed DmC in, for example, a third person or first person shooter, which completely changes what the series is all about, the hack'n slash, then I could being to understand the "insulting". Maybe. Because they'd certainly market the game as such, like they did with MGR, which isn't about stealth anymore.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I see people talking about being "insulted" or "offended" or that they were offered the "middle finger". Seriously? Are you so easily aggrieved towards a game? Shouldn't you find more important things to care for?

If they had transformed DmC in, for example, a third person or first person shooter, which completely changes what the series is all about, the hack'n slash, then I could being to understand the "insulting". Maybe. Because they'd certainly market the game as such, like they did with MGR, which isn't about stealth anymore.

If you are going to tell people what they like isn't good, then you really shouldn't expect them to buy your game. It really is that simple. It wasn't simply the game they made, though that was bad enough, they actually insulted the fans. Do you really expect people to but a luxury item from those that do that?

By the way, there is reason it is called Metal Gear Rising, not Metal Gear Solid. It is a different series set in the Metal Gear world. Thus the different gameplay. That is why Ground Zeroes has Solid in the title.

 

[Jick]

See? That's what I'm talking about. You guys take this so personally. You even believe they're dictating what you should and shouldn't like. They're not forcing you to want what they've been told to do. No one will try to change that. They will try to give you a new experience and you'll decide whether you'll get it or not.

The point I made about MGR is that they marketed it from the beginning as a hack'n slash game. Even if it was called MGSolid, we knew from the get-go what it wanted to be.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

OK, I disagreed with some of what Tameem said, maybe I still do
This is a reboot, you know, a different take, you want a better game story with more feel to the older series, that's fine, please don't say you were wounded with this reboot, it's not a literal knife to the thigh