The Avengers The Official 'Hulk in Avengers' thread. - Part 1

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Like mentioned before I suspect they'll take a cue from earlier stuff where Cap is the one that really is able to bond with him, as Stark only wants to poke and prod like a science project, and Thor only views him as something to challenge his strength in friendly scuffles.
 
I think the acceptance will come more from Team on an individual bases, conversating with Bruce, learning who the guy is, his plight, and him trying to control the Hulk as he searches for a cure.... and maybe bailing them out of a situation and saving some people.

That's the thing, as far as Bruce Banner is concerned, he's invaluable to the team, in terms of scientific savvy, technological expertise along with Stark, & overall knowledge of a wide assortment of developments I'm sure SHIELD would love to have.

It's the Hulk that's the main issue, and I kind of hope they incorporate the Ultimates in this regard. Now I'm not condoning the portrayal of the Hulk himself in that series, which I thought was pretty atrocious in the beginning, but the way SHIELD used Banner was key.

He started to feel like some caged animal they only consulted for super serum information. He wasn't allowed to be around the team really & eventually, that type of rage, building to a simmering climax where Bruce decides he wants to be "big" again, would give Mark a different template to act from, as opposed to the usual Banner routine.
 
Since the chances of Hulk getting another solo feature are kind of slim at the moment, would you guys prefer for most of his story to be wrapped up by the end of the Avengers?

Also; has Bruce ever gain some type of control over his Hulk transformations in the comics as of late? I was just wondering since I wanted to know if it would ever be a possibility for the Hulk and Bruce to ever peacefully coexist with each other.
 
Right now he's about as smart as he was during his Worldbreaker persona, but more rational and acting like Banner moreso.
 
Speaking of which; if the Hulk is actually given some personality and treated as a entirely different entity in some aspect for this film, how would they go about it?

If you haven't realized by now, I'm not familiar with the Hulk as I am with other comic characters, so I'm just wondering if the Hulk as himself (no Banner influence) is someone who is just misunderstood, or a being that actually likes causing chaos and havoc?

I would have figured that the reason why the Hulk is so aggressive is because from the moment he was created, the first thing he was exposed to in the MCU was violence and aggression.
 
The Hulk was violent from the get go because, supposedly, that Hulk persona represnts all of Banner's frustrations and rage.
 
Speaking of which; if the Hulk is actually given some personality and treated as a entirely different entity in some aspect for this film, how would they go about it?

If you haven't realized by now, I'm not familiar with the Hulk as I am with other comic characters, so I'm just wondering if the Hulk as himself (no Banner influence) is someone who is just misunderstood, or a being that actually likes causing chaos and havoc?

I would have figured that the reason why the Hulk is so aggressive is because from the moment he was created, the first thing he was exposed to in the MCU was violence and aggression.


There's been a couple of occasions where Banner's influence on the Hulk was removed: 1) Banners mind 'retreated' completely from the Hulk, leaving him a mindless raging beast that Doctor strange had to exile to another dimension where he could do no harm (The Crossroads).
2) Very shortly after Banners mind came back at the Crossroads and the Hulk returned to Earth, Banner was physically separated from the Hulk in an experiment by Doc Samson. The result, as Samson discovered, was this 'blank slate' Hulk he created was again a being of pure rage and destruction.

So basically without Banner's psyche influencing each persona that manifests in the Hulk he is a creature that is just angry and destructive all the time.

Also, the idea more common since the end of Bill Mantlo's run and elaborated on in Peter David's is that the basic Hulk personalities have been present in Banner since he was an abused child (so he is technically suffering a multiple personality disorder). Originally the Hulk persona didn't exist at all until that first transformation.
 
Since the chances of Hulk getting another solo feature are kind of slim at the moment, would you guys prefer for most of his story to be wrapped up by the end of the Avengers?

No. As long as The Avengers is not a flop, Hulk will appear in any sequels. Ruffalo signed for five or six films.

Also; has Bruce ever gain some type of control over his Hulk transformations in the comics as of late? I was just wondering since I wanted to know if it would ever be a possibility for the Hulk and Bruce to ever peacefully coexist with each other.
In the comics of late Banner and Hulk seem to have some type of agreement and each one allows the other to do what they do best.

Right now he's about as smart as he was during his Worldbreaker persona, but more rational and acting like Banner moreso.

This Hulk is the same Hulk that has been written for the last 7 or more years. He's not Banner at all (mentally) but he does show high intelligence at times and has been seen breaking down physics to his foes as he beats them up.

Speaking of which; if the Hulk is actually given some personality and treated as a entirely different entity in some aspect for this film, how would they go about it?

If they read The Incredible Hulk comic from issue # 77 on to present or watch The Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes show, that's how it should be done.

If you haven't realized by now, I'm not familiar with the Hulk as I am with other comic characters, so I'm just wondering if the Hulk as himself (no Banner influence) is someone who is just misunderstood, or a being that actually likes causing chaos and havoc?
Depending on the incarnation, but all Hulks are supposed to be "misunderstood monsters." They all tend to be surly individuals who don't take crap or orders from anyone.

Where I find most writers and fans who don't know the Hulk, but know of him make the mistake with Hulk, is not understanding that Hulk doesn't go looking for or causing trouble. He tends to mind his own business but he doesn't take kindly to being threatened...by anyone.

I would have figured that the reason why the Hulk is so aggressive is because from the moment he was created, the first thing he was exposed to in the MCU was violence and aggression.
There's been many reasons stated as to why Hulk is aggressive, from the gamma energy surging through him causing him to constantly burn, because of the way he received his dosage in the comics from a nuclear explosion, to the fact that he is surging with so much power that it's hard to keep his cool.

The Hulk was violent from the get go because, supposedly, that Hulk persona represnts all of Banner's frustrations and rage.

This is one of the reasons stated too. Banner's mother was killed by his father, who always figured Bruce was a mutant, because his father was working around radiation. Bruce's father believed this, because Bruce as a young toddler seemed unusually intelligent. After the event which caused his mother's death, as a child, Banner was scared to show any type of emotion because of the way he viewed his father. Banner became an introvert, all his life never showing any until he accidentally killed his father (or did he?), and the time after that was when he became the Hulk. So now all of that emotionally pent up repressed mental scarring, anger, rage, sexual tension, love manifests itself as Hulk's ability for endless strength.
 
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So basically without Banner's psyche influencing each persona that manifests in the Hulk he is a creature that is just angry and destructive all the time.

Not so.

Hulk and Banner were separted in -

The Incredible Hulk #130 & #131 - Hulk had the Savage/Child-Like persona

Annual #10 - Hulk had the Savage/Child-Like persona

The Incredible Hulk #447 to #459 - Hulk had the Gravage/Green Scar persona

Banner and Gray Hulk allowed their personalities to die within in Incredible Hulk The End - leaving Savage-Child-like Hulk to live indefinitely.
 
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My wants:

1.Hulk in all Avengers films (at least to some degree)
2.as a hero
3.and as a proper member of the team.

Asking too much?
 
Thanks to everyone who took the time to explain the Hulk character to me. I really appreciate it.

And here I had thought that the whole abused as a child thing presented in Ang’s Hulk was just Hollywood inspired drama.lol Though now I can see why some had issues with TIH since they hadn’t dived into the Hulk being resulted from Banner’s own issues and for me personally, the Hulk just came off as a science experiment gone bad instead of the things mentioned above.

My wants:

1.Hulk in all Avengers films (at least to some degree)
2.as a hero
3.and as a proper member of the team.

Asking too much?

Granted, I’m not sure about the first one yet, but I think we’ll be getting the latter two in the first film. I mean if anything, I think one of the Hulk’s character arcs in the film will be gaining the trust and respect from the rest of the Avengers who had initially thought of him as a loose canon that shouldn’t be on the team as Mark had mentioned in an interview.

I’m personally glad that the Hulk has been confirmed to be an Avenger instead of the menace that he was portrayed in the Ultimate Avenger Cartoon films. He adds more dynamic to the team imho since he’s not like any of the characters.
 
Thanks to everyone who took the time to explain the Hulk character to me. I really appreciate it.

And here I had thought that the whole abused as a child thing presented in Ang’s Hulk was just Hollywood inspired drama.lol Though now I can see why some had issues with TIH since they hadn’t dived into the Hulk being resulted from Banner’s own issues and for me personally, the Hulk just came off as a science experiment gone bad instead of the things mentioned above.

Initially Hulk was just a science experiment gone wrong. As with any character that has had longevity, many twists and substance have been added to their mythos. The abused child story was hinted at in some earlier Hulk stories but told completely in The Incredible Hulk #312 1985. What's interesting and sad at the same time was that Bruce's father referred to young Bruce as a "Little Monster" and years later after getting G-Bombed up, Bruce turns into a Big monster.
 
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Well after seeing the Hulk's level of intelligence in EMH, I'm hoping that this film follows after that.

Given what was shown in the Leaked pages featuring a transforming Banner and BW, it seems like this film MIGHT give the Hulk that much needed layer of character and personality from the stereotypical yelling and stomping only Hulk.
 
Not so.

Hulk and Banner were separted in -

The Incredible Hulk #130 & #131 - Hulk had the Savage/Child-Like persona

Annual #10 - Hulk had the Savage/Child-Like persona

The Incredible Hulk #447 to #459 - Hulk had the Gravage/Green Scar persona

Banner and Gray Hulk allowed their personalities to die within in Incredible Hulk The End - leaving Savage-Child-like Hulk to live indefinitely.

There's a bit of a difference in those though: In the 2 examples I noted the writers went to lengths to establish the Hulk was left mindless in them. It's inconsistent I know, but I guess we have to assume the other physical separations and 'mind deaths' somehow retained that part of Banners psyche that creates the Hulk personalty.
 
My wants:

1.Hulk in all Avengers films (at least to some degree)
2.as a hero
3.and as a proper member of the team.

Asking too much?
Sounds pretty logical, although, I'm not sure if #1 will happen.
 
There's a bit of a difference in those though: In the 2 examples I noted the writers went to lengths to establish the Hulk was left mindless in them. It's inconsistent I know, but I guess we have to assume the other physical separations and 'mind deaths' somehow retained that part of Banners psyche that creates the Hulk personalty.

It was coincidental that you bought up those two instances, because me and another poster named Ygor on another board have been having an in depth discussion about what the Mindless Hulk represented, so when I saw your comment, I just thought it was ironic.

http://comicboards.com/php/show.php?msg=hulk-2011070305124297&layout=thread

In the Crossroads story, the Mindless Hulk was beginning to learn. When he saw his only friend in the story get hurt, he spoke the word "friend" then there was an instance where Banners likeness was shown to him in different stages in his life and the way in which Hulk responded to each separate stage is what Ygor and I have been discussing.

Also, if you take a look at issue #312, you'll see it implied that Hulk has been a part of Banner since his birth.
 
^ I think that was the basis behind Any Lee Hulk...being injected as an infant by his father.

However, since TIH has establish Bruce attempt trying to control Hulk; I think now is the time to have Bruce intelligence influence Hulk own intellect a little....not over the top intelligence like Beast; but, a thinking man somewhat.
 
It was coincidental that you bought up those two instances, because me and another poster named Ygor on another board have been having an in depth discussion about what the Mindless Hulk represented, so when I saw your comment, I just thought it was ironic.

http://comicboards.com/php/show.php?msg=hulk-2011070305124297&layout=thread

In the Crossroads story, the Mindless Hulk was beginning to learn. When he saw his only friend in the story get hurt, he spoke the word "friend" then there was an instance where Banners likeness was shown to him in different stages in his life and the way in which Hulk responded to each separate stage is what Ygor and I have been discussing.

Also, if you take a look at issue #312, you'll see it implied that Hulk has been a part of Banner since his birth.


Yup. 312 did clearly imply that the Hulk was a part of Banner from very early on in his life, that found release and form after the bomb, rather than creation.
 
Ang Lee's Hulk certainly did a good job with the father's back story, which is based on the Hulk issue I mentioned above. Ang got the psychology of the Hulk right, he just got wrong that ridiculous growing and also what every live version of the Hulk got wrong, Hulk lack of speaking. Hulk in the comics is extremely opinionated and does not usually follow the crowd.

What Hulk shows up in the Avengers remains to be seen. I doubt he'll have Banner's mind, because the little info we've been told said, he's the teammate no one wants around.
 
Yup. 312 did clearly imply that the Hulk was a part of Banner from very early on in his life, that found release and form after the bomb, rather than creation.

I always wanted to see a back story based upon Brian (Bruce's father's comic book name) Banner's work with radiation for the government and why he was so sure Bruce would turn out a monster. Some fans believe Brian was just nuts, but still Bruce did end up becoming the Hulk.

What was he mucking around with?
 
I always wanted to see a back story based upon Brian (Bruce's father's comic book name) Banner's work with radiation for the government and why he was so sure Bruce would turn out a monster. Some fans believe Brian was just nuts, but still Bruce did end up becoming the Hulk.

I always felt that Brian sort of had a self fulfilling prophecy floating around his head that his son, regardless of anything plausible, would become a monster because he viewed his own father as a monster, psychologically.

Once he had his accident at the nuclear plant, his suspicions were just reinforced that whatever was wrong with him and his father would now only multiply within a child. Just being smart and intelligent lead Brian to believe something was wrong with Bruce in a bad way, instead of being proud with his mental prowess, he saw it as a sign.

In Ang's film, he took all this further and physically showed that baby Bruce was abnormal directly from his father's experiments aside from the mental anguish, but in the comics, Brian was just a delusional nutcase, and felt that Bruce would be screwed up in any situation, just by being born. I don't think his accident at the nuclear plant actually messed with Bruce on a genetic level
 
I always felt that Brian sort of had a self fulfilling prophecy floating around his head that his son, regardless of anything plausible, would become a monster because he viewed his own father as a monster, psychologically.

Once he had his accident at the nuclear plant, his suspicions were just reinforced that whatever was wrong with him and his father would now only multiply within a child. Just being smart and intelligent lead Brian to believe something was wrong with Bruce in a bad way, instead of being proud with his mental prowess, he saw it as a sign.

An interesting theory. I agree Brian Banner's paranoia definitely had no justification at the time. As far as his history is concerned, it would be worth a look to see if it was truly a self fulfilling prophesy.

In Ang's film, he took all this further and physically showed that baby Bruce was abnormal directly from his father's experiments aside from the mental anguish, but in the comics, Brian was just a delusional nutcase, and felt that Bruce would be screwed up in any situation, just by being born. I don't think his accident at the nuclear plant actually messed with Bruce on a genetic level

I still believe Brian wasn't a complete nutcase, and he knew something. However, he was partly jealous of the love own son was getting from his mother, but Brian was an intelligent Scientist in his own right. Not a fool by far and his problem stemmed from never wanting a child to begin with, because of working with radiation.

It took me about four sittings to really appreciate what Ang did with Bruce's father in the Hulk movie. I initially had concerns and dislikes about his father experimenting on himself, at least the way he did it. Taking the essences of different creatures to make a "Super-Soldier formula, allowing him to adapt to anything. It's compelling to read the opening credits as he wrote his notes. Ang actually did an excellent job making his experiments believable.

The fact that the father knew he passed it on to his son, as he could see the mutations in his genes when Bruce cried as a baby was enough to make him want to kill his 'creation' not knowing ultimately what he had produced.
 
Ang Lee's Hulk certainly did a good job with the father's back story, which is based on the Hulk issue I mentioned above. Ang got the psychology of the Hulk right, he just got wrong that ridiculous growing and also what every live version of the Hulk got wrong, Hulk lack of speaking. Hulk in the comics is extremely opinionated and does not usually follow the crowd.

What Hulk shows up in the Avengers remains to be seen. I doubt he'll have Banner's mind, because the little info we've been told said, he's the teammate no one wants around.

Well as I had mentioned earlier, if the leaked sheet featuring the scene between Bruce transforming in front of Black Widow is of any indication as to what type of presence the Hulk will have as a entity in himself, then we may be in stored for a treat regarding the character. I mean if I'm not mistaken, as Black Widow was trying to tell Banner to stay in control of his transformation from the scene, the Hulk persona emerged mentally and took over, and gave somewhat of a threatening line to BW that Banner wouldn't be capable of saying.

And yeah, the Hulk does have a lot to overcome in order to turn the majority view of him being more of a liability than asset to the safety of society since unlike the rest of the confirmed Avengers, his appearance is the most radical and frightening one of all. I mean if the Hulk were a real person in real life, it wouldn't be easy for anyone to market him off to the world as a hero.
 
Well, Whedon has found ways to turn characters who are pretty scary and monstrous looking into heroes like in Buffy and Angel, so it is workable. It probably works to have Hulk be as distrustful of others as much as they may distrust him at the start, so the audience has a feeling of, "they're kind of in the wrong for treating him like that."
 
Well, Whedon has found ways to turn characters who are pretty scary and monstrous looking into heroes like in Buffy and Angel, so it is workable. It probably works to have Hulk be as distrustful of others as much as they may distrust him at the start, so the audience has a feeling of, "they're kind of in the wrong for treating him like that."

That's the point, Hulk is the one that's wanted, the one the military want to study, be a Guinea pig. Hulk should be distrustful of the team as he tries to fit in; and, he should also be somewhat distrustful of Bruce attempt to control him; so there is some inner conflict there. Which, imo, serve well if Hulk is the villain in the beginning.... you know "the Hulk Problem" that Tony implied Ross had. And given the "leaks" if true, fuels why no one likes him and distrustful of him.
 
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