The Avengers The Official 'Hulk in Avengers' thread. - Part 2

[wobbly]

David Banner actually said what I described himself in the movie.

David Banner was completely insane, his various rants not based on anything but his own craziness.

So for me Ang's Hulk was little different in character from the Tv show version: The Hulk reduced to being Banner 'under the influence' rather than having any personality of his own.

TIH was also too similar in that regard, but at least they got him talking out loud for a couple of lines.

Hopefully Avengers will be the first live action effort to actually take a look at the books and give the big green guy his own personality. Seems utterly daft to me that such a fundamental aspect of the character has continued to escape the script writers notice. I mean they don't have Spider-Man, Superman or Batman go all mute when the put on their costumes, so why they hell do they keep doing that for the Hulk?

 

[terry78]

David Banner was completely insane, his various rants not based on anything but his own craziness.

So for me Ang's Hulk was little different in character from the Tv show version: The Hulk reduced to being Banner 'under the influence' rather than having any personality of his own.

TIH was also too similar in that regard, but at least they got him talking out loud for a couple of lines.

Hopefully Avengers will be the first live action effort to actually take a look at the books and give the big green guy his own personality. Seems utterly daft to me that such a fundamental aspect of the character has continued to escape the script writers notice. I mean they don't have Spider-Man, Superman or Batman go all mute when the put on their costumes, so why they hell do they keep doing that for the Hulk?

Ehhh....

 

[wobbly]

Ehhh....

Ehhh....Spider-Man still talks with the mask on in all his movies, just not nearly as much (with the quips especially) as he should

 

[Gamma Ra]

hmmmm....what??
Because it´s a comic book, because it´s an abstract exageration of reality?
Please tell me, don´t keep me in suspense

But a much better question for you.
Why is that Banner is the only gamma creature that changes into a monster?
There are some (Abomination for example) that change into a monster physically, but not intellectually, they still have their personality.
Why is that Banner is the only gamma creature that returns to human form?
Not counting with She-Hulk, as she got a blood transfusion from Banner.
Why is that the Savage Hulk is the only persona that grows in strenght the more he gets angry?
All of those are related....
Answer that...


I don´t get your post, basically you agree with me...
All that you are describing are repressed emotions, which is exactly what i said
Savage Hulk = repressed rage and fear from when Banner was a kid
Gray Hulk = repressed sexual desires and independency from when he was a teen

All those are repressed emotions, so....i don't get your post...



Once again, you are agreeing with me
The diferent Hulk personas are emotions of the same person.
Yes, Banner suffers from DID, but it´s more complex than that.
If it was only DID, Banner would never change to diferent Hulk nor return to human form, he would change once (like all the others) and have those multiple personalities in the same body.

What you stated about Banner and what I've shown is not at all the same...but whatever.

I wonder why the childhoods of other gamma beings haven't been explored before, to see why they have certain repressed emotions. The Leader might have some superiority complex, or perhaps even an inferiority complex from feeling unintelligent. Not sure what repressed emotion Abomination has. She-Hulk seems to have a repressed sexuality and timidity, because now she's very confident, outgoing and maybe even slightly nympho.

It's not just their childhood, gamma radiation affects the repressed parts of a characters mind on a subconscious level. Leader was an average guy who desired to have more intelligence, Doc Samson wanted to be well respected like his father and looked at the Biblical figure of Samson as a hero, Jennifer walters was a sexually repressed bookwork when she transforms to She-Hulk she become uninhibited and extremely flirtatious, I can't recall anything about Emil Blonsky right now. But all these were revealed in story.

 

[Obi-Ron]

I don't recall ever seeing Blonsky's mutation described as having been influenced by his subconscious desires (as we've seen with other the other gamma powered examples). I know I've wondered about it in the past.

 

[terry78]

I don't recall ever seeing Blonsky's mutation described as having been influenced by his subconscious desires (as we've seen with other the other gamma powered examples). I know I've wondered about it in the past.

His happened due to actual experimentation that went wrong, didn't it? He didn't desire anything but to be stronger and destroy the Hulk, and was already kind of a monstrous dude from jump.

 

[Obi-Ron]

His happened due to actual experimentation that went wrong, didn't it? He didn't desire anything but to be stronger and destroy the Hulk, and was already kind of a monstrous dude from jump.

That's how it went down in the movie, but in the comic Blonsky was just a commie spy who stood in front of Banner's gamma machine hoping he would get super strong. It worked, but I don't know why he subconsciously wanted to look like

 

[Roose Bolton]

Have they given Emil a more modern origin in the comics ?

 

[HopeOfTheFuture]

Does anyone else feel like that this looks like a scene where Bruce Banner first arrives onto the Hell Carrier (or Conference Room for the Avengers) for the first time, and his arrival was kept as a secret to everyone else but Fury?

I mean given Tony's expression, I could buy that he's not very receptive of Bruce being there due to the liability that Banner is with his hulk persona.

I doubt it. Look at Banner's and Stark's clothes. Tony is wearing a Black Sabbath shirt, Banner the purple blouse. If you look at the footage seconds later, the one at position 00:00:39 in the footage, you see Black Widow sitting left on the table and Banner with his purple blouse. Then at 00:00:42, you see Tony Stark in a suite with blue blouse patting Thor while Black Widow is still sitting on that same table. So my guess is that Stark in Black Sabbath shirt is from a different scene then the one in which Banner "arrives".

Just my thoughts.

 

[NickNitro]

I honestly just hope the Hulk smashes the sh*^ out of stuff. all this arguing over Complex's persona's makes me want to friggin smash something lol.

Please, keep going its interesting.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

I think Banner clearly suffers from a split personality that his transformations allowed to come alive. the other gamma powerred characters do not suffer from the same thing and therefore their primary persona somewhat modified purveys.

In any case, whatever they do I hope the Hulk is given time to shine in this movie and that he is not just a raging monster.

 

[wobbly]

I think Banner clearly suffers from a split personality that his transformations allowed to come alive. the other gamma powerred characters do not suffer from the same thing and therefore their primary persona somewhat modified purveys.

In any case, whatever they do I hope the Hulk is given time to shine in this movie and that he is not just a raging monster.

I think Peter David was the first writer to up and say Banner does suffer from MPD (Multiple Personality Disorder) rather than the more simplistic representation of the Hulk being a manifestation of Bruce's subconscious rage/desires etc.

If memory serves that official 'diagnosis' came when the Professor Hulk emerged, who was presented at the time as being a 'cured' Banner: That personality was a merge of Banner, Savage Hulk, and Gray, and was considered to be a 'complete' Banner, with no repressed rage etc.

However, it was revealed later on that persona was actually a new one created by Doc Samson's failed attempt to merge the 3. It's also been revealed in the books that Banner theoretically has hundreds of different personalities sitting dormant in his brain. Presumably each one would manifest a different physical transformation if released.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

I think Peter David was the first writer to up and say Banner does suffer from MPD (Multiple Personality Disorder) rather than the more simplistic representation of the Hulk being a manifestation of Bruce's subconscious rage/desires etc.

If memory serves that official 'diagnosis' came when the Professor Hulk emerged, who was presented at the time as being a 'cured' Banner: That personality was a merge of Banner, Savage Hulk, and Gray, and was considered to be a 'complete' Banner, with no repressed rage etc.

However, it was revealed later on that persona was actually a new one created by Doc Samson's failed attempt to merge the 3. It's also been revealed in the books that Banner theoretically has hundreds of different personalities sitting dormant in his brain. Presumably each one would manifest a different physical transformation if released.

I agree wholeheartedly. I read that run and enjoyed it until they nerfed the Professor. In any case as I stated I think this whole discussion is only in the hope we get a Hulk who has a personality and a voice.

 

[The_Shadow]

Does anyone else feel like that this looks like a scene where Bruce Banner first arrives onto the Hell Carrier (or Conference Room for the Avengers) for the first time, and his arrival was kept as a secret to everyone else but Fury?

I mean given Tony's expression, I could buy that he's not very receptive of Bruce being there due to the liability that Banner is with his hulk persona.

Anyone else realize how terrible those SHIELD guards are? One is about 60 years old and the other looks like he had too many donuts

 

[LOBO3315a]

I kind of hope we see She-Hulk at some point in the Avengers.

Just sayin.

 

[WildcatNC]

I agree wholeheartedly. I read that run and enjoyed it until they nerfed the Professor. In any case as I stated I think this whole discussion is only in the hope we get a Hulk who has a personality and a voice.

I love when Hulk/Banner's complexity is explored but I was never a fan of the whole "legion of hulks" concept.

They could go that route to explain his different appearance though.

 

[GhostPoet]

I kind of hope we see She-Hulk at some point in the Avengers.

Just sayin.

NO! Ms. Marvel and Spider-Woman first. =)

 

[Dark Raven]

NO! Ms. Marvel and Spider-Woman first. =)

I would rather She-Hulk, Ms Marvel and Spider-Woman all get their own movies before having them in the Avengers first. They are all deserving of their own film, just as they had their own comic title. They could be the female equivalents of Iron Man, Cap and Thor having their own movies before teaming up.

 

[terry78]

Then years down the line Disney just has one massive crossover film event with every Marvel character in existence once the rights revert back.

 

[LOBO3315a]

My inner-fanboy approves!

 

[Obi-Ron]

They are all deserving of their own film,

All three are all just female versions of previously existing male characters. I believe more original properties (like, say, Black Widow or Jessica Jones) would be more likely to be considered for big screen treatment.

 

[LOBO3315a]

Ms Marvel, I agree on. While She-Hulk shares a name, and a certain power set with Hulk, Spider-Woman's is vastly different than her male namesake.

 

[Dark Raven]

Ms Marvel, I agree on. While She-Hulk shares a name, and a certain power set with Hulk, Spider-Woman's is vastly different than her male namesake.

Correct. Spider-Woman is completely different to Spider-Man, has an entirely different origin and a different tone. She would actually fit in very well with the established Marvel movie universe. Her origin ties in very closely to Hydra, and she even has some similarities to Captain America, being a woman out of time. She was originally from around the 1930s or earlier as a young girl when was given the spider serum by her father to counter radiation poisoning. Then she was placed in suspended animation for years and aged very slowly only to be awoken later to be trained as an agent of Hydra under the mentorship of Count Otto Vermis (a high-ranking Hydra officer). She was later sent to kill Nick Fury but freed from Hydra's influence and became a valuable ally of SHIELD.

Jessica Drew's story would be absolutely fascinating as a movie and couldn't be more different from Spider-Man. Her early days as the dark angel of the night has her as even slightly morally ambiguous but eventually finding herself on the side of good. Her arch enemy, Morgan Le Fay, is even one of Iron Man's enemies and an enemy of the Avengers and Dr Strange.


If Hayley Atwell hadn't starred as Peggy Carter, she could've easily been Spider-Woman, who is British born originally. Another candidate for the role would be British actress Rebecca Hall (who actually co-starred with Scarlett Johansson in Vicky Cristina Barcelona). Atwell would've certainly had the figure and correct proportions. Another potential candidate is Kate Beckinsale, but she might be a little too old now, but she would've been right around the time of Underworld (which is quite like Spider-Woman in tone).

 

[Xeno]

All three are all just female versions of previously existing male characters. I believe more original properties (like, say, Black Widow or Jessica Jones) would be more likely to be considered for big screen treatment.

Agreed. The cheese factor with She-Hulk and Spider-Woman, in particular, would make adapting them for the big screen difficult if not impossible. It would be much better to bring in The Wasp and the Scarlet Witch (assuming that Marvel retains the rights to Wanda). Those two characters have a long history with The Avengers and can easily be worked into the team. Just get Ant-Man out from under Wright and integrate him and Jan into the Avengers' plots.

 

[Dark Raven]

Agreed. The cheese factor with She-Hulk and Spider-Woman, in particular, would make adapting them for the big screen difficult if not impossible. It would be much better to bring in The Wasp and the Scarlet Witch (assuming that Marvel retains the rights to Wanda). Those two characters have a long history with The Avengers and can easily be worked into the team. Just get Ant-Man out from under Wright and integrate him and Jan into the Avengers' plots.

Did you even read my post above yours where I've described how Spider-Woman isn't even remotely related to Spider-Man and how she ties in very well with the established Marvel movie universe. She has a long history with SHIELD and Hydra and can easily be integrated into the Avengers later on.

It looks like you've just latched onto the post you've quoted and assumed she is just the female counterpart of Spidey. There is no cheese factor in her origin and story. It's more in your mind.