The Avengers The Official 'Hulk in Avengers' thread. - Part 6

[wobbly]

Gollum worked fine and he interacted with the hobbits all the time. Davey Jones had plenty of scenes with real actors. Kong and Ceasar in the Apes reboot is another good example of CGI working great with real actors.

The trick is as much about how the character is presented as it is about how it looks, is rendered, and interacts with everything else etc. Gollum and Jones had defined personalities, and even Caesar had more emotional range than the Hulk has offered on film.

Get the character right, have the audience see this thing is more than just a simple grunting bruiser, and the job is half done. The choice of model, rendering etc, does the rest.

 

[Anti Goku]

Sorry Doc but I think we are getting a lot more than two scenes of action with hulk considering how much whedon talks about him I'm thinking he'll be in it a lot

 

[Doc Samson]

The trick is as much about how the character is presented as it is about how it looks, is rendered, and interacts with everything else etc. Gollum and Jones had defined personalities, and even Caesar had more emotional range than the Hulk has offered on film.

I tend to agree, but, Abomination had plenty to say. And it still didn't help him look any less rubbery or plastic than the Hulk.

Sorry Doc but I think we are getting a lot more than two scenes of action with hulk considering how much whedon talks about him I'm thinking he'll be in it a lot

I hope so.

 

[wobbly]

I tend to agree, but, Abomination had plenty to say. And it still didn't help him look any less rubbery or plastic than the Hulk.

"Rhythm & Hues" are no ILM or Weta, who created the other examples I noted. And I'll add another honorary mention to Draco from Dragonheart. There have been better rendered Dragons since then but his character (nicely voiced by Connery) stole that movie.

Seriously, if audiences can connect with a talking Dragon, a gruesome dwarf, a giant Gorilla, a smart ape, or 9 feet tall bright blue cat like aliens, then there's no reason the same cannot be done with the Hulk. Sad fact is neither movie tried to achieve that and that is why I think neither film took off with the audiences.

Fans can argue all they like how much they liked Hulk 03 or TIH, but the GA didn't really take to them and that is the main reason why: They got the Hulk's character wrong.

 

[SpitCurl]

Gollum worked fine and he interacted with the hobbits all the time. Davey Jones had plenty of scenes with real actors. Kong and Ceasar in the Apes reboot is another good example of CGI working great with real actors...

I would just add, though, that none of them were fully "human" characters, the closest (and most successful) would be Davey Jones (out of the ones you named). Avatar gets a nod, and really, I'd say Davey Jones on the deck of his ship in broad daylight with that beautifully transculent skin and Neytiri holding Jake on the floor of the trailer are two of the most convincing examples I've ever seen.

Gollum was great for the time and obviously set the standard, but, Gollum doesn't really resemble a man - not even a dwarf - and DJ is a squid-dude. Even with animals that we're fairly familiar with, there's still far enough of a disconnect with not being our own species that we don't immediatley notice all inconsistencies in movement/rendering. Humans are the biggest challenge, and unlike every character, incuding Na'vi, Hulk is essentially a tall, green, overly-muscled man. The slightly-monstrous features help remove him from the Uncanny Valley, but not always enough. ILM seems to be doing a great job with it from all that I've seen (detail wise; I'm stll iffy on the actual character-design until I see the film).

 

[Anti Goku]

Hulk

 

[metaphysician]

One might argue, though, that the Hulk is supposed to be just *slightly* into the uncanny valley. After all, he is a giant green rage monster, and isn't supposed to look exactly like a big human.

 

[mara]

Hey I was watching a video posted by DCMarvelFreshman over at CBM, Hiddleson was talking about the Avengers and he mentioned the Hulk and I started thinking.......

Spoiler

in the storybook, it says they needed Banner not the Hulk, and then when Loki is the "cage" he mocks Banner saying it was designed for someone angrier and greener and Banner started getting mad...could he have gotten mad because shield never told him about that cage, as in, they say they wanted Banner but he starts thinking that they were in fact lying to him and plan to capture/keep the Hulk? Also, could this be what sets him off hence the battle on the helicarrier/bridge, Loki just keeps mocking him and then grrrrr etc?

Random ramble... hehe

 

[Herolee10]

Hey I was watching a video posted by DCMarvelFreshman over at CBM, Hiddleson was talking about the Avengers and he mentioned the Hulk and I started thinking.......

Spoiler

in the storybook, it says they needed Banner not the Hulk, and then when Loki is the "cage" he mocks Banner saying it was designed for someone angrier and greener and Banner started getting mad...could he have gotten mad because shield never told him about that cage, as in, they say they wanted Banner but he starts thinking that they were in fact lying to him and plan to capture/keep the Hulk? Also, could this be what sets him off hence the battle on the helicarrier/bridge, Loki just keeps mocking him and then grrrrr etc?

Random ramble... hehe

I don't think that you're far off from the actual truth.

i do think that SHIELD at one point did plan to capture the Hulk, or that the cage was built as a contingency plan in case if the Hulk ever did become a consistent force for mass destruction and chaos.

I think Banner transforms as a result of being thrown out of the laboratory window on board the Hellcarrier by whatever explosion takes place in there.


On a side note; I like on how they keep referencing the Hulk as a "hero" in this film, along with Banner having a more solid grasp/direction towards wanting to use the Hulk in a good manner rather than having him presented as a more reactive type of person.

I'd take this Hulk over the antihero Hulk and especially over the Ultimate version of the Hulk

 

[mara]

I don't think that you're far off from the actual truth.

i do think that SHIELD at one point did plan to capture the Hulk, or that the cage was built as a contingency plan in case if the Hulk ever did become a consistent force for mass destruction and chaos.

I think Banner transforms as a result of being thrown out of the laboratory window on board the Hellcarrier by whatever explosion takes place in there.


On a side note; I like on how they keep referencing the Hulk as a "hero" in this film, along with Banner having a more solid grasp/direction towards wanting to use the Hulk in a good manner rather than having him presented as a more reactive type of person.

I'd take this Hulk over the antihero Hulk and especially over the Ultimate version of the Hulk

Oh yes, could be. Wonder what causes that explosion...

Agreed. I like hero Hulk too.

 

[Herolee10]

Oh yes, could be. Wonder what causes that explosion...

I'm guessing that Loki has to do with it. One of my theories is that Loki mind controls Hawkeye again and has him shoot an explosive arrow into the room that sends both Black Widow and Banner outside of it.

 

[craigdbfan]

Hulk looks damn spiffy!

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Like I said, IMO, Ang's film had a few scenes that achieved it & still stand up today, its very possible for the Hulk to at least look like he's there lol. I mean, the creatures in Avatar aren't walking around either, but I'll be damned if they didn't look real.

Personally I still think the CGI in Angs movie stands up today, more so than TIH anyway which has seemed to age pretty quickly already. The design for the Hulk in TIH was better, but the CGI in Ang's movie was far superior and again, still stands up today for the most part.

 

[The Morningstar]

Some of the shots in TIH were just plain terrible. The scene in the cave when he was wet stands out. Looked like he was made of plastic, like an action figure.

Why did they use Rhythm and Hues instead of ILM or WETA anyway?

 

[Roose Bolton]

Hulk looks damn spiffy!

Where was this taken from ? Looks great

 

[Shadowlord X]

Some of the shots in TIH were just plain terrible. The scene in the cave when he was wet stands out. Looked like he was made of plastic, like an action figure.

Why did they use Rhythm and Hues instead of ILM or WETA anyway?

Probably cost. R&H is probably a LOT cheaper than those other two. They needed to keep TIH cost down to maintain a $150 million budget.

 

[wobbly]

Yup, it would have been budget.

Way it often works when a studio is looking to keeps costs down is that they offer out the job and various FX houses will then bid for the contract, usually offering a sample of what they have to offer for the specific project, and the studio goes with what they hope is the best bang for their bucks.

Both ILM & Weta are top of the FX houses and would be the costliest to go with. R&H would have been considerably cheaper.

 

[Gamma Ra]

Hulk looks damn spiffy!

My new screensaver!!!

Where was this taken from ? Looks great

What he said?

 

[HULKFish]

That shot is awesome! Wish I had the whole shot of him in that pose... That surely looks better than the out-of-shape action figures!

TIH was spectacular in parts. The shot of him in the fire looked completely real, and I thought the cave scene was crazy good as well... Also, the street fight with Abomination. I give R&H plenty of credit, and I love TIH!

 

[terry78]

in that shot he looks like a hybrid of early Kirby/current worldbreaker.

 

[ComicForAWife]

Personally I still think the CGI in Angs movie stands up today, more so than TIH anyway which has seemed to age pretty quickly already. The design for the Hulk in TIH was better, but the CGI in Ang's movie was far superior and again, still stands up today for the most part.

That shot is awesome! Wish I had the whole shot of him in that pose... That surely looks better than the out-of-shape action figures!

TIH was spectacular in parts. The shot of him in the fire looked completely real, and I thought the cave scene was crazy good as well... Also, the street fight with Abomination. I give R&H plenty of credit, and I love TIH!

I agree with both accounts, that shot of Hulk in the fire is amazing, but the cgi in the rest of the campus fight is pretty bad, the cgi shots of Hulk in the dark are generally the better ones, which seems to be the case for most cgi in all movies. I'm pretty sure it has to do with rendering. Whereas TIH had a better Hulk design, at least the head design, the rendering was aweful in most places, whereas Hulk 03 had very good rendering. And it seems we get the best of both worlds with this Avengers Hulk.

I'm surprised at how many have responded positively to the new Hulk design, it reminds me a lot of 03 Hulk, which I liked, but a lot of others didn't like. I'm just annoyed when people say 03 Hulk was a fatty, he had the same body structure as this Avengers Hulk, which is how the strongest one there is is supposed to look.

I'm also glad they're returning to Hulk 03's power level, or so it seems at least. 08 Hulk was a weakling compared to 03.

 

[The Morningstar]

The body structure of Avengers Hulk is practically identical to Ang's Hulk. The only real differences are the skin tone and face.

 

[BigThor]

That shot is awesome! Wish I had the whole shot of him in that pose... That surely looks better than the out-of-shape action figures!

TIH was spectacular in parts. The shot of him in the fire looked completely real, and I thought the cave scene was crazy good as well... Also, the street fight with Abomination. I give R&H plenty of credit, and I love TIH!

I agree, the CGI in TIH wasn't the best but it does look good in quite a few scenes and I think it receives far too much flack.

 

[redhawk23]

I really can't stand the way hul looks a lot of the time durring the fight on the college campus, especially when he first hulks out and screams.

Looks almost as bad as the crappy cg monsters from I Am Legend

 

[DarthDaveBanner]

Hulk's facial expressions really bothered me in TIH...