The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 10

[Tony Stark]

I'd be very displeased if Fox made another crack at it, but watching the MCU haters try to defend another Foxtastic Failure would be endlessly amusing.

I have to admit, I kind of miss the Fan4stick boards, for that very reason.

 

[Tony Stark]

Fantastic 4 for Brian Braddock? That's sooo lopsided it's not even funny

At this point, Fox is out of bargaining chips. The ONLY thing they have going for them at this point is Deadpool.

DOFP was the apex of the franchise, and everything since has failed to produce profits. Not one single X-men film (I'm not counting Deadpool as x-men) has made it over 250M domestically. For pete sake Doctor Strange made nearly as much as DOFP, and made more than Logan

Fox has made some good entertaining films in the X-franchise, but not the cash cow they hoped for after the rebooted series.

Dark Phoenix will not make it over 200M domestic. You can take that to the bank. So they have a product of diminishing returns. So they really don't have any leverage against Marvel any more.

They can go and produce another F4 film and it will make less than 100M dom, so their only hope would be to provide a 30M budget and hope that they can make a few pennies off of it, but the quality might be so bad that it would further lessen the amount of money they could make off of it.

The announcement of yet another rebooted F4, is nothing more than a desperate attempt at a studio that doesn't have a future with any characters outside of Deadpool. I don't think this is a studio that Marvel wants to work with.

Sony may be terrible at handling money, but they've actually had a good working relationship with Marvel. The only negative point had to do with Avi Arad's grudge against his former company. Avi hates Feige and it's pretty obvious, but he's out of the picture now (no pun intended), so there's no problem with Marvel operating from this point forward in joint effort with Sony. Sony is so small at this point, I could easily see Disney just buying Sony Pictures outright.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

At this point, Fox is out of bargaining chips. The ONLY thing they have going for them at this point is Deadpool.

DOFP was the apex of the franchise, and everything since has failed to produce profits. Not one single X-men film (I'm not counting Deadpool as x-men) has made it over 250M domestically. For pete sake Doctor Strange made nearly as much as DOFP, and made more than Logan

Fox has made some good entertaining films in the X-franchise, but not the cash cow they hoped for after the rebooted series.

Dark Phoenix will not make it over 200M domestic. You can take that to the bank. So they have a product of diminishing returns. So they really don't have any leverage against Marvel any more.

They can go and produce another F4 film and it will make less than 100M dom, so their only hope would be to provide a 30M budget and hope that they can make a few pennies off of it, but the quality might be so bad that it would further lessen the amount of money they could make off of it.

The announcement of yet another rebooted F4, is nothing more than a desperate attempt at a studio that doesn't have a future with any characters outside of Deadpool. I don't think this is a studio that Marvel wants to work with.

Sony may be terrible at handling money, but they've actually had a good working relationship with Marvel. The only negative point had to do with Avi Arad's grudge against his former company. Avi hates Feige and it's pretty obvious, but he's out of the picture now (no pun intended), so there's no problem with Marvel operating from this point forward in joint effort with Sony. Sony is so small at this point, I could easily see Disney just buying Sony Pictures outright.

When the box-office numbers for Homecoming start coming in, Fox will have to realize they can make more money if they let Marvel make FF and integrate it into the MCU (and Fox shareholders will be screaming for it) The question then will be "Is Marvel interested in a similar deal, or will they just wait for the rights to revert?"

This latest rumor may have been all about Fox trying to convince Marvel they need to deal.

 

[WBwins]

I really hope Marvel doesnt strike a Sony type deal with Fox.The sony deal with spiderman clearly has strings attached and it looks like sony may want to backstab marvel.

So for FF i want Marvel to get the full rights.not kind of not maybe.Full rights.

 

[wobbly]

When the box-office numbers for Homecoming start coming in, Fox will have to realize they can make more money if they let Marvel make FF and integrate it into the MCU (and Fox shareholders will be screaming for it) The question then will be "Is Marvel interested in a similar deal, or will they just wait for the rights to revert?"

This latest rumor may have been all about Fox trying to convince Marvel they need to deal.

Tbh, even though I'm bigger fan of the FF than Spider-Man, I fully acknowledge they aint worth nearly so much. Spidey's a merchandise monster even when films have not been so good.

So Marvel making the Sony deal made sense (though Sony it seems would gladly screw it up), but a similar one for the FF would not.

I'd say Marvel would want full reversion, be it waiting it out or via a trade, rather than producing a film for Fox. Just can't see them offering that same deal to Fox, or agreeing to one if Fox came calling for it.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Tbh, even though I'm bigger fan of the FF than Spider-Man, I fully acknowledge they aint worth nearly so much. Spidey's a merchandise monster even when films have not been so good.

So Marvel making the Sony deal made sense (though Sony it seems would gladly screw it up), but a similar one for the FF would not.

I'd say Marvel would want full reversion, be it waiting it out or via a trade, rather than producing a film for Fox. Just can't see them offering that same deal to Fox, or agreeing to one if Fox came calling for it.

Well if the Franklin Valeria rumor is a negotiating tactic, it may tell us that Marvel has already said they weren't interested.

But remember in 2009 when we all said: "This talk of a reboot is just Fox trying to get money from Disney."?

It may have started that way, but we saw what eventually happened.

Does Marvel want to play 'chicken' again, or did they learn their lesson?

Sure, the deals would be different because the characters, history etc. are all very different, but there is real value in characters like Dr. Doom, Galactus, Silver Surfer, Kang, Annihilus, Mephisto etc. - particularly when villains are such a problem for Marvel and they've already mis-handled some of their big names (and don't have Magneto). Marvel really could use some of those villains.

So the deal might be structured very differently, but there's still a lot of value to Marvel in being able to use some of those characters and there's a big risk to assuming Fox will go quietly.

Marvel may be holding a full-house, but there's a lot of money on the table and they can't get too careless.

 

[Dasher10]

And now Marvel got rid of the Fantastic Four in the Marvel Heroes game. Odds are, that's a means of getting Fox to abandon the reboot and give up the film rights.

 

[Zarex]

And now Marvel got rid of the Fantastic Four in the Marvel Heroes game. Odds are, that's a means of getting Fox to abandon the reboot and give up the film rights.

Marvel isn't sending a very strong message to FOX if they are removing video game characters with one hand and handing over valuable TV rights with the other.

 

[GeckoMoria]

Marvel isn't getting those rights soon enough. And i'm not even sure that boycotting the new film (if it happnes) will work either since it didn't work with Fan4stic.

 

[GeckoMoria]

When the box-office numbers for Homecoming start coming in, Fox will have to realize they can make more money if they let Marvel make FF and integrate it into the MCU (and Fox shareholders will be screaming for it) The question then will be "Is Marvel interested in a similar deal, or will they just wait for the rights to revert?"

This latest rumor may have been all about Fox trying to convince Marvel they need to deal.

No, Marvel won't be interested. There is no incentive for them to go through all the trouble or writing, casting anf filming a Fantastic Four film, a property that hasn't gelled with audiences and it's a relic of the past. Sorry to say that to you since you are a huge F4 fan you know better than most people that the 4 have diminishing populairty for a while now both in comics and live-action/games.

Marvel gets nothing from this other than some fan gratitude that let's be honest is just not enough for it to justify a 150+ film. Why would Feige waste precious time in a film that he won't make a dime from and has zero merchandise potential?

 

[Tony Stark]

When the box-office numbers for Homecoming start coming in, Fox will have to realize they can make more money if they let Marvel make FF and integrate it into the MCU (and Fox shareholders will be screaming for it) The question then will be "Is Marvel interested in a similar deal, or will they just wait for the rights to revert?"

This latest rumor may have been all about Fox trying to convince Marvel they need to deal.

I think the main thing is that Marvel can easily sit back and wait for the rights to revert. They have enough projects on the table to last them through 2027.

Let's be honest. Right now the F4 are damaged goods, and it kills me to say that. Comic book fans know what a F4 movie in the right hands could be, but I think the majority of movie goers are just going to think "why are they remaking that again?"

Fox needs the deal, Marvel doesn't. With Sony it was different. There was more pressure for Marvel to cut a deal. Spider-man is Marvel's flagship character. To not have him in the MCU just seemed wrong.

The Fantastic 4 are huge within Marvel and you could argue Doom is even more important than the FF. But I don't think there's a huge need to have them in the MCU right now. Not that it wouldn't be awesome.

It's just that I think the dynamics of the situation right now, are that Marvel already got back Daredevil and Electra from Fox without doing anything. Fox is worried about that, but their shareholders would not want the company fronting money for another produced FF movie. I agree with you that those shareholders know Marvel's track record and if they could cut a deal that was mutually beneficial, that's the best bet.

Remember back when all of those rumors were going around that Fox wanted to create a "FCU" with the Fantastic Four interacting with the X-men. Well clearly they don't have the rights to do that, because the simplest thing would just to have the FF in Dark Phoenix. Despite the protests to the contrary by the Fox fanboys, there's zero evidence that Fox can do that.

Fox will either have to come to Marvel with a deal they can't refuse, or the rights will revert. They certainly can have another crack at producing another film, but again outside Deadpool, Fox cannot create a CBM that can crack 250M domestic. The people who do the accounting know this, so it would be silly to act in a way that would further damage the property.

 

[InCali]

It seems like people are probably making too much out of Feige's comments. I mean, what's he supposed to say? "Hey, we'd LOVE to get rights to FF back. There are SO many good villains and we think we could do something really special in phase 4 using the FF as the ultimate focal point."

If Marvel doesn't have rights to particular characters, of course they will downplay any public statements they make regarding the necessity or desirability of having said characters.

 

[Spiderine]

I really hope Marvel doesnt strike a Sony type deal with Fox.The sony deal with spiderman clearly has strings attached and it looks like sony may want to backstab marvel.

So for FF i want Marvel to get the full rights.not kind of not maybe.Full rights.

Could not agree more.

FOX does NOT deserve the Sony deal. Spidey is the only character that Marvel doesn't have the rights to that is entitled to such a deal. And when all the IW merchandise starts rolling out and we see Spidey plastered everywhere with the Avengers then people will understand why that deal got made. $$$$$$$$

There is no way Marvel needs to deal with making films for two separate studios when they have their own catalog of characters to focus on along with Spidey. FOX can go to hell. I still call bluff on them making another FF film. And so does Disney.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Fox will either have to come to Marvel with a deal they can't refuse, or the rights will revert. They certainly can have another crack at producing another film, but again outside Deadpool, Fox cannot create a CBM that can crack 250M domestic. The people who do the accounting know this, so it would be silly to act in a way that would further damage the property.

The thing that concerns me about the Franklin/Valeria rumor is that it illustrates Fox may at least be thinking of alternatives to FF that would still keep the rights, and that could be a much easier sell to management than another FF film after the previous ones have failed so badly. And I'm starting to get a little nervous about the possibilities.

What if, after the success of Wonder Woman, Fox decides to do a Thundra film? I don't know if they can keep the rights that way, but it's a disconcerting thought.

 

[Val_Zod]

Marvel isn't getting those rights soon enough. And i'm not even sure that boycotting the new film (if it happnes) will work either since it didn't work with Fan4stic.

The reversion date isn't here yet, and there's no announced film. You might be to jumping conclusions. Even if they make another film, just don't go see it. The more money Fox loses over the Fantastic Four, the sooner they will stop.

 

[First Avenger]

I'm nervous and hopeless at the same time. It's like a never-ending bad dream. I know we're just talking about movies and fictional characters, but those are some of the few things that make me happy and help me getting through crappy routine life.

 

[Val_Zod]

I'm nervous and hopeless at the same time. It's like a never-ending bad dream. I know we're just talking about movies and fictional characters, but those are some of the few things that make me happy and help me getting through crappy routine life.

All I ask is for the greatest Marvel villain to finally get his due in live action.

 

[Xeno]

All I ask is for the greatest Marvel villain to finally get his due in live action.

Fox will probably turn Doom into a nanny for Franklin and Valeria if they do that stupid reboot.

 

[2kt09]

Fox will probably turn Doom into a nanny for Franklin and Valeria if they do that stupid reboot.

 

[Val_Zod]

Fox will probably turn Doom into a nanny for Franklin and Valeria if they do that stupid reboot.

It would be absurdly foolish of Fox to even dare start production on this rumored film. We've seen what negative social media responses can do to a film. The potential blowback would put even Fant4stic's to shame. Unless it is out of this world incredible in trailers, no one would give that film a chance. It will not only further damage FF as a brand, but offset any good will they may have gotten or get with the X-men and Deadpool films.

 

[Zarex]

The problem with the rumor is the fact that a film about a preteen super genius and her supremely powerful brother tagging along on adventures with their similarly gifted uncles sounds like an idea with potential. But slap the Fantastic Four branding on the thing and the chances for BO success go from "Eh, maybe" to "No freakin way!".

FOX should no better than anyone that the Marvel brand isn't a license to print money if you are unwilling to commit necessary talent and resources. They may as well make Independence Day and Assassin's Creed sequels if they are committed to losing money on doomed franchises.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I saw a couple interesting news bits this morning.

First off, it seems that there may be an Alpha Flight reference in Deadpool. Do we know who has the Alpha Flight rights? I would assume Marvel has them, but I've never heard much discussion of it.

Assuming Marvel currently has them, would that be a trade Marvel should consider? They're a valuable set of characters, but they also fit more with X-Men than the MCU. Maybe a deal that sends Alpha Flight to Fox and FF to Marvel with Marvel taking a cut of Alpha Flight that justifies the deal?

And on the Sony front, it seems that both Sony and Marvel agree that the Venom etc. films will take place in the same reality as Homecoming, but we won't see any other Marvel characters in those Sony films.

That's a pretty big deal, because without that, the whole concept seems sort of yech. I wonder if Sony and Marvel worked out some kind of deal to allow Sony to make that statement over the past several days.

 

[First Avenger]

I remember Alpha Flight being at Marvel. Are they doing charity now?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I remember Alpha Flight being at Marvel. Are they doing charity now?

Well this:

https://***********/yvrshoots/statu...-egg-spotted-on-the-set-of-deadpool-2-a152102

Can probably be done without Marvel's permission. But if you're sure they're with Marvel, I would certainly be very interested in trying to deal for them if I were Fox.

 

[Orba]

If I remember the MCU has mentioned Department H in Agents of SHIELD and thats about as far as it has gone. Fox probably have a claim on the Mutant members unless they are a part of a specific Alpha Flight film package, but the non-Mutant members are unknown.