The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - Part 13

[Big Bang]

I think at that time they will be more worried about renewing HP's expiring rights. Plus ATT might want to venture into this realm as well.

I highly doubt ATT will venture into theme parks. That is a sector that is very difficult to compete in. The same reasons that Time Warner exited the market when they sold off Six Flags. Plus, Universal has had great success with HP (and by extension TW). They will undoubtedly renew those rights and ATT/TW will in all likelihood just sit back and continue to rank in revenue from the licensing fees and merchandising.

However, that piece of land would be for a 3rd park, CMCSA would still have no reason to give up the Marvel rights since keeping an old piece of outdated land is all it takes to keep it.

It just doesn't appear to be something as simple as opening a 3rd gate though. Universal Orlando's single biggest long term issue has always been that they are landlocked or disjointed. This is the biggest problem that has kept them from competing with WDW more effectively. Comcast has outright stated that doing just that is their goal, and to do so they need to scale up considerably. Just taking what they've acquired already and opening a 3rd park would be a repetition of the same original problem. My own personal speculation is that Comcast is building up land holdings to build its own WDW minus the empty space between the parks. Sort of like how Disneyland and DCA are situated, but with possibly more gates. For comparison's sake, WDW sits at ~1120 acres of actual park space right now (not counting all its property), and what Comcast has purchased so far is ~540 acres (there is still more land available between its plots and around them, so expect they will buy more). I'm not expecting them to have a 1:1 in those terms, but I do expect them to have something much closer. The same in the vicinity of where they are buying holds a lot of potential, and when analyzing what pieces of land they have it becomes clear they going for something much bigger.

If Universal's long term plans on building up scale continue to pan out, and by all accounts thus far they are, they are going to need properties to entice people to their new resort. The most obvious target on that timeline would be licensing from WB/DC, and if they did get those rights (they can easily outbid Six Flags for those rights), then they really wouldn't need the Marvel rights anymore.

 

[Frankeh]

Gladly. Something's happening. A year from now Fox will no longer have a stranglehold on FF and I couldn't be more thrilled.t:

I really want to see a Marvel Studios X-Men movie. I feel like the time has arrived.

 

[ADollarADay]

I highly doubt ATT will venture into theme parks. That is a sector that is very difficult to compete in. The same reasons that Time Warner exited the market when they sold off Six Flags. Plus, Universal has had great success with HP (and by extension TW). They will undoubtedly renew those rights and ATT/TW will in all likelihood just sit back and continue to rank in revenue from the licensing fees and merchandising.

It just doesn't appear to be something as simple as opening a 3rd gate though. Universal Orlando's single biggest long term issue has always been that they are landlocked or disjointed. This is the biggest problem that has kept them from competing with WDW more effectively. Comcast has outright stated that doing just that is their goal, and to do so they need to scale up considerably. Just taking what they've acquired already and opening a 3rd park would be a repetition of the same original problem. My own personal speculation is that Comcast is building up land holdings to build its own WDW minus the empty space between the parks. Sort of like how Disneyland and DCA are situated, but with possibly more gates. For comparison's sake, WDW sits at ~1120 acres of actual park space right now (not counting all its property), and what Comcast has purchased so far is ~540 acres (there is still more land available between its plots and around them, so expect they will buy more). I'm not expecting them to have a 1:1 in those terms, but I do expect them to have something much closer. The same in the vicinity of where they are buying holds a lot of potential, and when analyzing what pieces of land they have it becomes clear they going for something much bigger.

If Universal's long term plans on building up scale continue to pan out, and by all accounts thus far they are, they are going to need properties to entice people to their new resort. The most obvious target on that timeline would be licensing from WB/DC, and if they did get those rights (they can easily outbid Six Flags for those rights), then they really wouldn't need the Marvel rights anymore.

If all of what you're saying happens, which I highly doubt but let's say it does. That's all the more reason for Comcast to hold on to Marvel land and make an awesome Gotham and Metropolis. They wouldn't want an awesome Avengers/XMen school etc to compete with them and take away customers.

 

[Big Bang]

If all of what you're saying happens, which I highly doubt but let's say it does. That's all the more reason for Comcast to hold on to Marvel land and make an awesome Gotham and Metropolis. They wouldn't want an awesome Avengers/XMen school etc to compete with them and take away customers.

Except Disney/Marvel could probably cite conflict of interest. I believe there are clauses in the contract that keep Universal from doing anything from damaging the Marvel brand, and playing keep away if they had DC would be construed as such.

It would make far more business sense to release those rights, and focus on properties that would be far less constrained. But like I said, it's all based on my own speculation, we're talking about a timeline years in the future. (IIRC, WB/DC rights expire in 2025 or there about).

 

[ADollarADay]

Except Disney/Marvel could probably cite conflict of interest. I believe there are clauses in the contract that keep Universal from doing anything from damaging the Marvel brand, and playing keep away if they had DC would be construed as such.

It would make far more business sense to release those rights, and focus on properties that would be far less constrained. But like I said, it's all based on my own speculation, we're talking about a timeline years in the future. (IIRC, WB/DC rights expire in 2025 or there about).

Conflict of interest based on what? How would Universal be damaging the brand? Disney wouldn't have a case here. At all. The best case scenario in your hypothetical scenario would be if WB required CMCSA to give up the Marvel license to get the DC license. I don't see why CMCSA would do that, but that's the only way I see them giving up the Marvel license under your scenario.

Regardless, this is way OT, so I digress

 

[Big Bang]

Conflict of interest based on what? How would Universal be damaging the brand? Disney wouldn't have a case here. At all. The best case scenario in your hypothetical scenario would be if WB required CMCSA to give up the Marvel license to get the DC license. I don't see why CMCSA would do that, but that's the only way I see them giving up the Marvel license under your scenario.

Regardless, this is way OT, so I digress

They would have a lot more flexibility with the DC license. A lot more.

In other news Alex Alonso is out at Marvel. C.B. Cebulski is in as the new editor in chief.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/marvel-names-new-editor-chief-1059410

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

The thing is Disney doesn’t need to win any claim regarding any potential sale (either conflict of interest or transfer of rights based on a contract that is likely ambiguous regarding a sale of this sort). All they have to do is make the claim and say: “Let’s let a judge and jury decide.” That legal process would take years and leave the acquisition in limbo during that time, so Fox and any potential buyers will want to make it go away.

 

[Docker2.0]

They would have a lot more flexibility with the DC license. A lot more.

In other news Alex Alonso is out at Marvel. C.B. Cebulski is in as the new editor in chief.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/marvel-names-new-editor-chief-1059410

Probably because of the slumping sales in their comics with the forced diversity. Marvel really needed a change anyway.

 

[GoblinScrier]

Maybe I am just a simple man thinking in simple terms, but if the contract with Fox is for the F4 and the X-Men, wouldn't it be null and void with whatever company bought Fox entertainment division and the rights automatically revert back to Marvel Studios? I would assume with whatever studio gets Fox, we win as fans?

 

[Docker2.0]

Maybe I am just a simple man thinking in simple terms, but if the contract with Fox is for the F4 and the X-Men, wouldn't it be null and void with whatever company bought Fox entertainment division and the rights automatically revert back to Marvel Studios? I would assume with whatever studio gets Fox, we win as fans?

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe that's why Disney has been reluctant to buy them out.

 

[Big Bang]

Maybe I am just a simple man thinking in simple terms, but if the contract with Fox is for the F4 and the X-Men, wouldn't it be null and void with whatever company bought Fox entertainment division and the rights automatically revert back to Marvel Studios? I would assume with whatever studio gets Fox, we win as fans?

It would depend on clauses in the contract. Bearing in mind this was Marvel from the 90's, I would not think they would include it. Without it being public we can't say with 100% certainty.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Maybe I am just a simple man thinking in simple terms, but if the contract with Fox is for the F4 and the X-Men, wouldn't it be null and void with whatever company bought Fox entertainment division and the rights automatically revert back to Marvel Studios? I would assume with whatever studio gets Fox, we win as fans?

Generally speaking, when a company is sold, the existing contracts that the previous company held remain intact, but arguments can be made, particularly in a case like this. (one complication of this is that it won't be Fox, in it's entirety, being bought, and since some assets will be picked and chosen that provides an argument that it is a transfer as opposed to a complete sale.)

If the contract prohibits transfer of the rights but doesn't specifically address what would happen in the event of a sale (which is very likely), that's an ambiguity that might need to be worked out in court (if Disney challenges it).

While Disney might have a hard time winning any such cases, I suspect the contract is ambiguous enough that they could at least take it to court, and as I mentioned before, that's all they need. As long as they have the ability to get in the way of a sale (and/or call into question if those assets will be transferred in the sale), they have a lot of power.

 

[Big Bang]

Generally speaking, when a company is sold, the existing contracts that the previous company held remain intact, but arguments can be made, particularly in a case like this.

If the contract prohibits transfer of the rights but doesn't specifically address what would happen in the event of a sale (which is very likely), that's an ambiguity that might need to be worked out in court (if Disney challenges it).

While Disney might have a hard time winning any such cases, I suspect the contract is ambiguous enough that they could at least take it to court, and as I mentioned before, that's all they need. As long as they have the ability to get in the way of a sale (and/or call into question if those assets will be transferred in the sale), they have a lot of power.

The mere threat of litigation could be all that's needed to settle out of court too. In other words, say if Universal buys 20th Century Fox. Disney contests. They settle out of court for an undisclosed sum, and rights are returned to Disney/Marvel.

It could also lead to including Disney at the onset of a sale, because the buyer would realize that they'd make any result of the transaction difficult, and include them the direct sale of those rights.

Rather sticky either way you slice it.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

The mere threat of litigation could be all that's needed to settle out of court too. In other words, say if Universal buys 20th Century Fox. Disney contests. They settle out of court for an undisclosed sum, and rights are returned to Disney/Marvel.

It could also lead to including Disney at the onset of a sale, because the buyer would realize that they'd make any result of the transaction difficult, and include them the direct sale of those rights.

Rather sticky either way you slice it.

Exactly. The reason we've heard talk that the sale wouldn't include certain TV rights etc. is because they wanted to avoid complications. The threat of complication is a serious concern in these dealings and a powerful weapon that Disney wields, and the way Fox and buyer X can prevent Disney from using that weapon is to come to a reasonable agreement with them.

How much Disney will hold out for would depend how strong they thought their legal case was, but the threat of any legal case (even a weak one) would be a powerful bargaining chip.

 

[Zarex]

The rights are in play, which is something we weren't even considering a few weeks back. Though nothing is guaranteed, reversion is a much stronger possibility than at any other time since the Disney buy out.

 

[Big Bang]

The rights are in play, which is something we weren't even considering a few weeks back. Though nothing is guaranteed, reversion is a much stronger possibility than at any other time since the Disney buy out.

Even if Disney isn't the buyer, the chance of reversion is pretty high right now.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

The rights are in play, which is something we weren't even considering a few weeks back. Though nothing is guaranteed, reversion is a much stronger possibility than at any other time since the Disney buy out.

The absolute worst case scenario in my opinion is for Fox, under current ownership and management, to continue to control the rights. Anything is preferable to that to me, and it seems very likely at this point that some sort of sale to somebody will happen.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Even if Disney isn't the buyer, the chance of reversion is pretty high right now.

Yep, there are many scenarios in which Marvel walks away with the rights in some form and only a few in which they don't get at least partial control.

Even if Sony (for example) ends up with the rights, they made the deal for Spidey and likely would recognize the value of a similar deal for FF.

 

[Dark Raven]

What if Fox only sell two or three members of the Fantastic Four and keep the others for themselves or sell to another studio?

I could see them splitting them up awkwardly. Sue goes back to Marvel with Ben Grimm while Reed gets stuck at Fox with Johnny.

Then Fox tries to make the Reed and Johnny cinematic universe.

 

[Big Bang]

What if Fox only sell two or three members of the Fantastic Four and keep the others for themselves or sell to another studio?

I could see them splitting them up awkwardly. Sue goes back to Marvel with Ben Grimm while Reed gets stuck at Fox with Johnny.

Then Fox tries to make the Reed and Johnny cinematic universe.

That's a bit of a stretch.

 

[wobbly]

Save money and have James Franco play everyone

 

[Doc Ock]

They would have a lot more flexibility with the DC license. A lot more.

In other news Alex Alonso is out at Marvel. C.B. Cebulski is in as the new editor in chief.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/marvel-names-new-editor-chief-1059410

Oh my that definitely piques my interest! A new era at Marvel Comics underway?

 

[Stark Bauer]

The rise of Netflix has been one of the best things to happen to the MCU...it's looking like the rights for FF and X Teams will return to Marvel just in time for Phase 4...

If I was Disney, I would realize that Fox and their franchises could bring at least 10 billion dollars of profit from box office alone. Double that for merchandise and home video etc...

Conclusion: Disney can afford to pay $30 billion for Fox if need be. They must if they want to have full control instead of getting in a bidding war and possibly lose out on Avatar, X Men, Fantastic Four, Simpsons etc

 

[Stark Bauer]

Disney bought Lucasfilm for 4 billion and Pixar for 7.4 billion. I am predicting Disney will buy Fox for between 20 to 30 billion.

 

[Big Bang]

Disney bought Lucasfilm for 4 billion and Pixar for 7.4 billion. I am predicting Disney will buy Fox for between 20 to 30 billion.

With as many suitors that Fox purportedly has now, that number is going to go up.

Fox may even try to gouge Disney for their character rights, simply because they can now. Getting down to that, Disney will probably seek to buy the X-Men & Fantastic Four rights, along with Fox's share of Avatar. Other assets are a bit more of a toss up now given the parties involved.

I most certainly expect Comcast to come out of this with something. Other than Disney they are the biggest party with enough resources, and a strong enough need in different sectors, that needs more IP's. BlueSky (Fox's animation studio) for example I see going to Universal.