The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - Part 14

[Rorschach2012]

I don't think he's a *****e, I quite like Campea as a person from what I can tell. He seems like a passionate guy who's living his dream, props to him.

But as a movie pundit? Every time I start coming around to his point of view, he says things that just baffle me. He wants the X-men and the FF in a separate universe because the MCU is apparently already getting "crowded as it is". He straight up said that it's becoming something of a "mess".

Um.... what? The MCU is a mess?

It'd be one thing if he was talking about just adding the X-men and how that'd throw things for a loop. That's a huge cast of characters and a whole subgenre of superheroes to throw into the already giant MCU.

But the FF....? The MCU is too crowded for the FF, so they should go in a separate universe alongside the X-men?

I don't know what he's smoking but I'd like some because it's apparently quite strong.

Wow what a dumb idea from Campea
The Fantastic Four and X-Men can and will be integrated into the MCU so easily. Can't ****ing wait.

 

[Flint Marko]

This just reminds me of how badly butchered Drax has become in the MCU...

Yes, please tell us more about how Marvel butchered D-list characters like Drax and Everett Ross while also defending Snyder's take on Batman, Superman, and Lex.

You can't have it both ways. You can't constantly complain about Marvel not perfectly adapting certain obscure characters while defending DC's radically different interpretations of hugely iconic characters and pretending that fanboys "can't except a different portrayal even if it makes sense within the movie's context".

 

[Raiden]

Yes, please tell us more about how Marvel butchered D-list characters like Drax and Everett Ross while also defending Snyder's take on Batman, Superman, and Lex.

You can't have it both ways. You can't constantly complain about Marvel not perfectly adapting certain obscure characters while defending DC's radically different interpretations of hugely iconic characters and pretending that fanboys "can't except a different portrayal even if it makes sense within the movie's context".

I know Drax isn't exactly comics accurate, but he was an obscured superhero that only hardcore comic fans knew, and Marvel gave James Gunn full control in how he interpreted those characters, back when Guardians of the Galaxy was a huge gamble that didn't guarantee any results. Therefore, I really have no problem how it turned out, and thanks to GOTG's success people actually know and appreciate Bautista's portrayal of this alien character.

 

[WeaponXCII]

I don't think he's a *****e, I quite like Campea as a person from what I can tell. He seems like a passionate guy who's living his dream, props to him.

But as a movie pundit? Every time I start coming around to his point of view, he says things that just baffle me. He wants the X-men and the FF in a separate universe because the MCU is apparently already getting "crowded as it is". He straight up said that it's becoming something of a "mess".

Um.... what? The MCU is a mess?

It'd be one thing if he was talking about just adding the X-men and how that'd throw things for a loop. That's a huge cast of characters and a whole subgenre of superheroes to throw into the already giant MCU.

But the FF....? The MCU is too crowded for the FF, so they should go in a separate universe alongside the X-men?

I don't know what he's smoking but I'd like some because it's apparently quite strong.

What I've always found funny about that "argument" is that the people touting it act like there aren't any Marvel characters besides the X-Men and the Fantastic Four (Namor, Blade, Ghost Rider, etc.) that haven't yet been introduced in the MCU. That it is filled to capacity; note that they say "too crowded", not "almost too crowded". Surely, if there's room for these other characters, there's room for the Fantastic Four and at least a small group of X-Men, right?

 

[Flint Marko]

I know Drax isn't exactly comics accurate, but he was an obscured superhero that only hardcore comic fans knew, and Marvel gave James Gunn full control in how he interpreted those characters, back when Guardians of the Galaxy was a huge gamble that didn't guarantee any results. Therefore, I really have no problem how it turned out, and thanks to GOTG's success people actually know and appreciate Bautista's portrayal of this alien character.

I get demanding fidelity to the comics, but demanding fidelity from one company on super obscure characters and not the other is where I draw the line.

What I've always found funny about that "argument" is that the people touting it act like there aren't any Marvel characters besides the X-Men and the Fantastic Four (Namor, Blade, Ghost Rider, etc.) that haven't yet been introduced in the MCU. That it is filled to capacity; note that they say "too crowded", not "almost too crowded". Surely, if there's room for these other characters, there's room for the Fantastic Four and at least a small group of X-Men, right?

Yeah, they've got twenty more films slated to come out. The MCU is inevitably going to get bigger and bigger every year. I don't see how that's messy, nor do I think bringing the FF in will be particularly complicated.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

The MCU isn't too crowded. It's a big world and a big universe. But it will have to shift some as more characters are added. It will have to become a little more segmented and not every superhero will get involved in every fight... which will be more like the comics.

And it makes sense, because as we're adding superheroes, we're also adding supervillains.

"Hey! Why aren't the Avengers helping the FF fight Dr. Doom?"

Because they've got their hands full at the moment fighting Kang.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Yes, please tell us more about how Marvel butchered D-list characters like Drax and Everett Ross while also defending Snyder's take on Batman, Superman, and Lex.

You can't have it both ways. You can't constantly complain about Marvel not perfectly adapting certain obscure characters while defending DC's radically different interpretations of hugely iconic characters and pretending that fanboys "can't except a different portrayal even if it makes sense within the movie's context".

I don't think I've ever defended Snyder's versions of Luthor or Superman... Just like Drax or, as you mentioned, Ross, both those versions give us a take that completely tosses everything that made the characters great in the first place. Most people have completely forgotten Ross was even in Civil War. I guarantee that wouldn't have happened if he was actually written like Ross is meant to be.

 

[Flint Marko]

I don't think I've ever defended Snyder's versions of Luthor or Superman... Just like Drax or, as you mentioned, Ross, both those versions give us a take that completely tosses everything that made the characters great in the first place. Most people have completely forgotten Ross was even in Civil War. I guarantee that wouldn't have happened if he was actually written like Ross is meant to be.

I've seen you defend Snyder's take on the DCEU on several occasions. That part in my last post about fanboys not being able to "except a different portrayal even if it makes sense within the movie's context" are your words exactly when discussing BvS. I don't care, like what you like, but it doesn't add up hearing you constantly complain about Marvel not adapting certain obscure characters exactly how you want.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

 

[CaptainWagner]

I've seen you defend Snyder's take on the DCEU on several occasions. That part in my last post about fanboys not being able to "except a different portrayal even if it makes sense within the movie's context" are your words exactly when discussing BvS. I don't care, like what you like, but it doesn't add up hearing you constantly complain about Marvel not adapting certain obscure characters exactly how you want.

I know I've defended the story Snyder tried to tell with Superman, but it quickly became apparent that he had no intention of Superman ever becoming what he was meant to be. That quote is most likely me defending the take on Batman, which I still stand by, because it is consistent with the source and the story that Snyder was trying (And failing) to tell.

But Luthor in particular is an unmitigated disaster of an adaptation, just like turning Draz into a walking punchline when he should have been a much-needed straight man in GOTG. Drax is the type of all-business warrior who temporarily kills everyone on Knowhere to find hidden Skrulls and it's no big deal to him. Gunn's version is one big, dumb joke. Just like Luthor. He's a level-headed, calculating, charismatic genius, not Snyder's unhinged, Joker-lite.

 

[Raiden]

I know I've defended the story Snyder tried to tell with Superman, but it quickly became apparent that he had no intention of Superman ever becoming what he was meant to be. That quote is most likely me defending the take on Batman, which I still stand by, because it is consistent with the source and the story that Snyder was trying (And failing) to tell. But Luthor in particular is an unmitigated disaster of an adaptation, just like turning Draz into a walking punchline when he should have been a much-needed straight man in GOTG.

The role of straight "man" was given to Gamora, and I think this is why Gunn decided to make Drax into a different kind of foil for the team.

 

[CaptainWagner]

The role of straight "man" was given to Gamora, and I think this is why Gunn decided to make Drax into a different kind of foil for the team.

Gamora basically being a non-character in Gunn's version is a whole different point. But there's room for more than one serious character. It just seems so weird that Gunn can get half the team so right (Rocket and Star Lord) and half the team so wrong.

 

[Flint Marko]

I know I've defended the story Snyder tried to tell with Superman, but it quickly became apparent that he had no intention of Superman ever becoming what he was meant to be. That quote is most likely me defending the take on Batman, which I still stand by, because it is consistent with the source and the story that Snyder was trying (And failing) to tell.

But Luthor in particular is an unmitigated disaster of an adaptation, just like turning Draz into a walking punchline when he should have been a much-needed straight man in GOTG. Drax is the type of all-business warrior who temporarily kills everyone on Knowhere to find hidden Skrulls and it's no big deal to him. Gunn's version is one big, dumb joke. Just like Luthor. He's a level-headed, calculating, charismatic genius, not Snyder's unhinged, Joker-lite.

We saw the serious version of Drax in the first Guardians. He was more lively and carefree in the second because he wasn't alone anymore and found a purpose outside of revenge. It's called character development.

But hey, I guess certain fanboys just can't accept a different portrayal even if it makes sense within the movie's context. Anyways tell us more about how much you liked Murder-man Batfleck.

Gamora basically being a non-character in Gunn's version is a whole different point.

Oh look, more hyperbole!

 

[kguillou]

You know, I'm watching the Empire Strikes Back right now, and I know its not as easy as it sounds but it hit me that this...THIS is how you should do a Fantastic Four movie. This is the template the use. This is how you do it. Darth Vader IS Dr Doom! An epic sci-fi adventure centering on this loveable quartet of individuals going up against an evil dictator who has mysterious personal ties to the team. Add in a John Williams'-esque theme and your on the right track.

 

[Spiderine]

We saw the serious version of Drax in the first Guardians. He was more lively and carefree in the second because he wasn't alone anymore and found a purpose outside of revenge. It's called character development.

But hey, I guess certain fanboys just can't accept a different portrayal even if it makes sense within the movie's context. Anyways tell us more about how much you liked Murder-man Batfleck.



Oh look, more hyperbole!

I was just gonna comment on this about Drax but you beat me to it. Its completely understandable about his journey in both films.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

 

[jaymes_e06]

Yes, please tell us more about how Marvel butchered D-list characters like Drax and Everett Ross while also defending Snyder's take on Batman, Superman, and Lex.

You can't have it both ways. You can't constantly complain about Marvel not perfectly adapting certain obscure characters while defending DC's radically different interpretations of hugely iconic characters and pretending that fanboys "can't except a different portrayal even if it makes sense within the movie's context".

Why is it okay for them to change things but everyone piles on Fox for doing the same thing to an equal degree. You can't have it both ways either.

 

[Flint Marko]

Why is it okay for them to change things but everyone piles on Fox for doing the same thing to an equal degree. You can't have it both ways either.

To an equal degree, oh my god

Spoiler

You can point to C-list characters like Ultron, Zemo, or the Mandarin all day, but try and find a change to a major character anywhere near as egregious and terrible as these examples and then get back to me.

And for the record.... I've never said that changes to a character are an inherently good or bad thing either way. There are changes that serve the story, changes that don't really matter that much, and changes that fundamentally disrespect the spirit of the source material.

 

[Dark Raven]

The MCU isn't too crowded. It's a big world and a big universe. But it will have to shift some as more characters are added. It will have to become a little more segmented and not every superhero will get involved in every fight... which will be more like the comics.

And it makes sense, because as we're adding superheroes, we're also adding supervillains.

"Hey! Why aren't the Avengers helping the FF fight Dr. Doom?"

Because they've got their hands full at the moment fighting Kang.

I want to see this happen in the films. I want the events of two films running concurrently with each other.

Then they could show in the FF that the Avengers are called to help, but just as they're on their way, they are held up by Kang. But we don't see anymore of that. It just focuses on FF and Doom, and maybe the FF wonder why the big guns aren't showing up.

Then in the Avengers, we see that they're called to help but it focuses on the battle with Kang, and we don't see anymore with the FF battling Doom.

It's like how they used to sometimes have one end of a phonecall in Buffy with the other end of it on Angel.

 

[wobbly]

All the studios alter things from the books. Some times its small, sometimes its major. The trick is to make those changes work. Not just for the general audience, but ideally for us comic books fans too. When they pull that off the general audience is usually none the wiser, and we fans are generally more willing and able to give the changes a pass.

When changes don't work the films usually suffer with the critics and at the BO and most of us are none to willing to give them any pass for screwing up. It's also infuriating for us fans if the GA are left with the impression the botched altered attempts are indeed representative of the material we love.

So when Fox butchers the Fantastic Four with an effort like FFINO, there's no redemption in the film being good, the GA loving it, it being a big success etc. It's just an ill conceived epic fail.

 

[Surfer]

Why is it okay for them to change things but everyone piles on Fox for doing the same thing to an equal degree. You can't have it both ways either.

Yeah, but Drax is still Drax from the comics. They are just using him differently to create some comic relief. I mean the qualities of Drax from the comics are there. He is really dumb. Check. He is a warrior that acts first and thinks about it later if ever. Check. The only thing left is to show more of a desire for him to kill Thanos, which I feel confident will be explored in either Infinity War or Avengers 4. I know they said Ronan killed Drax's family, but I think he will find out Ronan was ordered to do it by Thanos. Which is why he had more of a one track mind in Guardians of the Galaxy. Once Ronan dies his need for revenge has been quenched, because during Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 2, he doesn't know Ronan was just a pawn behind the death of his family. So, it seems right that his personality would become a little warmer now that he feels his business is concluded. I imagine going into Infinity War we will find a Drax that reverts back to a character with just revenge on his mind when he learns of Thanos's involvement.

At least that is how I see it.

Surfer

 

[First Avenger]

Why is it okay for them to change things but everyone piles on Fox for doing the same thing to an equal degree. You can't have it both ways either.

To an equal degree? Butchering Marvel Icons like F4,Doom,Galactus, Cyclops,Storm,Phoenix,Daredevil?

 

[honestbharani]

I thought Drax already says that it is really Thanos he has to kill at the end of GotG 1??

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I want to see this happen in the films. I want the events of two films running concurrently with each other.

Then they could show in the FF that the Avengers are called to help, but just as they're on their way, they are held up by Kang. But we don't see anymore of that. It just focuses on FF and Doom, and maybe the FF wonder why the big guns aren't showing up.

Then in the Avengers, we see that they're called to help but it focuses on the battle with Kang, and we don't see anymore with the FF battling Doom.

It's like how they used to sometimes have one end of a phonecall in Buffy with the other end of it on Angel.

There were a lot of things like that in the comics. Like for example there would be a team-up with Torch and Spidey and then Spidey would show up at the beginning of the next FF and they'd mention their adventure.

And we could have a film in which, for example, The Thing teams up with the Avengers and then in the FF film 4 months later, Ben could be absent because he's busy with that other fight.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

This has to happen eventually now right?