The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 21

[MasterCat]

Why not just let it be the radiation released into the atmosphere from the Infinity Stones? Why does the Quantum realm have to be involved at all?

Yes, this. As cool as reviving the cryptic "Children of the Atom" phrase for First Class was, "infinity radiation activates this one allele some humans have" is actually less stupid technobabble than "all radiation causes mutation, which is always the X-gene that gives you a random superpower, rather than causing cancer."

 

[Endeavor]

If the Celestials created the X-gene, they can easily say that only a couple of mutants manifested their powers and the Thanos event (which is much more appropriate for a phenomenon as big as Mutants) triggers the gene at an accelerated rate. Zero need for any Quantum whatever.

Just because

Spoiler

Janet came out with some weird abilities doesn't mean all mutants have to come out the same way. It would very underwhelming for AM and a microscopic universe to be responsible for the creation of homo superiors

Fair enough.
I don't see why substitution of one radiation for another is so bothersome but if you don't like it, then there's nothing more to it.
I hope you don't end up disappointed with what they do.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Wouldn't Janet be considered a mutate instead of a mutant? She didn't have superpowers prior to Quantum Realm, so i don't understand how that could create mutants.

It would make more sense of mutants being a side effect of the Infinity Stones. People who have the power to bend the fabric of time and space, alter reality, control one's very soul, control people's mind, and have limitless power. Kind of like a parting gift.

 

[Marvel united]

Fair enough.
I don't see why substitution of one radiation for another is so bothersome but if you don't like it, then there's nothing more to it.
I hope you don't end up disappointed with what they do.

I'm not. Just because Janet said the word "evolution" doesn't automatically = X-Men. Like some are making it out to be. This movie was written before any talks between Fox had even begun

 

[First Avenger]

They could easily tie mutants with Celestials and Eternals imo.

 

[Marvel united]

Wouldn't Janet be considered a mutate instead of a mutant? She didn't have superpowers prior to Quantum Realm, so i don't understand how that could create mutants.

It would make more sense of mutants being a side effect of the Infinity Stones. People who have the power to bend the fabric of time and space, alter reality, control one's very soul, control people's mind, and have limitless power. Kind of like a parting gift.

This

They could easily tie mutants with Celestials and Eternals imo.

And this

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I'm not sure if, at this point, this is a spoiler or not, but I'll tag it just in case.

Spoiler

At this point, we know very little about Janet's time in the Quantum realm. Couldn't any "evolution" she experienced be a direct or indirect result of time-travel, interdimensional travel etc. within the Quantum Realm, and couldn't Celestials and Eternals be involved in some form?

 

[Endeavor]

Wouldn't Janet be considered a mutate instead of a mutant? She didn't have superpowers prior to Quantum Realm, so i don't understand how that could create mutants.

It would make more sense of mutants being a side effect of the Infinity Stones. People who have the power to bend the fabric of time and space, alter reality, control one's very soul, control people's mind, and have limitless power. Kind of like a parting gift.

In Marvel 616, the word mutate is used to describe 2 types of characters (3 depending on your thoughts of Genosha):
Those who were baseline humans and were changed/augmented by some form of super science or other exotic means - example, Spider-Man.
Those who had the mutant gene, but it was dormant and would have never activated, then it was triggered by an external force - example, Mr Sinister.
So to answer your question, yes Janet would be a mutate, but nothing to do with mutants... Just going by conventional Marvel comics definitions.
That doesn't mean the same radiation that triggered a change in her couldn't also trigger something that was already present in other individuals.

 

[Endeavor]

I'm not sure if, at this point, this is a spoiler or not, but I'll tag it just in case.

Spoiler

At this point, we know very little about Janet's time in the Quantum realm. Couldn't any "evolution" she experienced be a direct or indirect result of time-travel, interdimensional travel etc. within the Quantum Realm, and couldn't Celestials and Eternals be involved in some form?

Yup. Also possible. Although she did say [blackout] if you are sucked up by a vortex there's no way out, so that would mean she travelled the timestream by other means.[/blackout]

 

[Marvel united]

In Marvel 616, the word mutate is used to describe 2 types of characters (3 depending on your thoughts of Genosha):
Those who were baseline humans and were changed/augmented by some form of super science or other exotic means - example, Spider-Man.
Those who had the mutant gene, but it was dormant and would have never activated, then it was triggered by an external force - example, Mr Sinister.
So to answer your question, yes Janet would be a mutate, but nothing to do with mutants... Just going by conventional Marvel comics definitions.
That doesn't mean the same radiation that triggered a change in her couldn't also trigger something that was already present in other individuals.

Lets turn the X-Men into the Inhumans except Quantum Realm powered

 

[Endeavor]

Lets turn the X-Men into the Inhumans except Quantum Realm powered

Again, I am not advocating for this to be the way it plays out.
I am open to other options, including what you guys have suggested..
But, so what? to the scenario you described.
Inhumans ARE basically mutants, in the context of how they came about.
The experiments the Kree made with primitive humans, they did so trying to mimic what the Celestials had done prior. They didn't get Eternals or Deviant soldiers out of it so they abandoned the experiment, but the genetic change was left. Then an external force (replace quantum energy/cosmic energy/atomic energy/infinity crystal energy with terrigen mist) is what triggers the change...
How would having this in the MCU make the mutants less special, if it doesn't in the comics?

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

That doesn't mean the same radiation that triggered a change in her couldn't also trigger something that was already present in other individuals.

Hmmm...

That's the thing. There's so many different avenues the writers could go with this mutant agenda. Hope they make the right one that makes sense.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Disney here's an idea:

Once you guys get the X-Men, maybe in future advertisements for Disney World/Disney Land, you can pair Gambit with Lumiere for the "Be Our Guest" slogan lol.

 

[Endeavor]

Lol

 

[Smurphftw]

9 more days .....

 

[Marvel united]

Again, I am not advocating for this to be the way it plays out.
I am open to other options, including what you guys have suggested..
But, so what? to the scenario you described.
Inhumans ARE basically mutants, in the context of how they came about.
The experiments the Kree made with primitive humans, they did so trying to mimic what the Celestials had done prior. They didn't get Eternals or Deviant soldiers out of it so they abandoned the experiment, but the genetic change was left. Then an external force (replace quantum energy/cosmic energy/atomic energy/infinity crystal energy with terrigen mist) is what triggers the change...
How would having this in the MCU make the mutants less special, if it doesn't in the comics?

I guess the truth for me is that I want mutants to be much bigger than being the result of some radiation from a microscopic universe that has never had anything to do with mutants in the past.

Having the mutants be the result of the Infinity Stones is much cleaner (no time vortex shenanigans) and much more connected to their comic origins since the Celestials are connected to the IS.. And they wouldn't be discount Inhumans because infinity Stones are natural aftereffects from the Big Bang which means you can still tie natural evolution to it than whatever the Quantum Realm thing would be.

I just heavily dislike the idea. It's too gimmicky. Mutants were the last thing to come to mind when Janet said she "evolved" the Quantum realm. The seeds for a much better path were planted years ago with Strucker and the twins

 

[Dark Raven]

I'm not sure if, at this point, this is a spoiler or not, but I'll tag it just in case.

Anything Ant-Man is still a spoiler. It hasn't even come out in the UK yet and won't for another couple of weeks.

 

[Endeavor]

Having the mutants be the result of the Infinity Stones is much cleaner (no time vortex shenanigans) and much more connected to their comic origins since the Celestials are connected to the IS.. And they wouldn't be discount Inhumans because infinity Stones are natural aftereffects from the Big Bang which means you can still tie natural evolution to it than whatever the Quantum Realm thing would be.

You're assuming Celestials have nothing to do with the Quantum Realm in the MCU. We know next to nothing about it yet.

 

[Spiderine]

From the sound of it the QR is a plot device for them to do whatever they want in the MCU to serve any purpose for story.

 

[Marvel united]

You're assuming Celestials have nothing to do with the Quantum Realm in the MCU. We know next to nothing about it yet.

If Celestials created the Quantum realm then that makes all mutants mutates like Spider-Man and Hulk. Since it is not natural, it's artificial. It would be a new take on the Ultimate origin just without any of the dramatic weight that comes with mankind creating mutants and then trying to destroy them.

Whereas with Infinity Stones, it's still natural AND still connected to the Celestials AND it connects the mutants to the biggest event in human history

 

[Spiderine]

But isnt that what they are basically doing with Inhumans now?

 

[Endeavor]

If Celestials created the Quantum realm then that makes all mutants mutates..

Going by that definition then, why do you not think of the mutants in 616 as artificially created and as something that happened naturally instead? The x-gene is the result of Celestial interference. Them being super advanced godlike alien beings makes the modifications they made "natural"?

 

[Marvel united]

Going by that definition then, why do you not think of the mutants in 616 as artificially created and as something that happened naturally instead? The x-gene is the result of Celestial interference. Them being super advanced godlike alien beings makes the modifications they made "natural"?

The whole point of a mutant is that they are BORN the way they are and it's natural..a human having the X-gene embedded into their genome from millennia ago is different from having their gene activated by something artificially made. Infinity Stones weren't "made" by anyone. And not even the "children of the atom" can apply to Quantum powered mutants

 

[Endeavor]

The whole point of a mutant is that they are BORN the way they are and it's natural..a human having the X-gene embedded into their genome from millennia ago is different from having their gene activated by something artificially made. Infinity Stones weren't "made" by anyone. And not even the "children of the atom" can apply to Quantum powered mutants

But not every character in the X-Men mythos had a natural "awakening".
Polaris is mutant through and through, but the only manifestation of her x-gene that activated naturally was her green hair. The part of her genome that activated super powers had to be artificially awakened... Does that make her not a real mutant?
Don't get me wrong, I understand what you're saying, I just think you're looking at the situation from too narrow a viewpoint.

Having an event that triggers mass spontaneous and accelerated mutations is something we're all in agreement. Having the individuals who are changed be shown to have had a previously existing different genetic makeup is also something we're all saying.
The difference is while you'd be ok with the event have something to do with energies coming from the infinity stones, you wouldn't be ok with it if it's energy coming from the Quantum Realm. The reasoning being that since the infinity stones are supposed to be "natural" or so we think, for now, the Quantum realm energies are... not, i guess. And since the Celestials have been shown to wield infinity stones thats enough of a connection to the comics to make it acceptable.
Like I said earlier, fair enough. I understand your reasons and why one option is more acceptable than the other.
To me, they're both equally acceptable. In fact, they can easily be merged into one event that involves all those parts.

 

[wobbly]

But isnt that what they are basically doing with Inhumans now?

The movies have pretty much ignored anything from the TV side of things, including the rise of Inhumans in AOS, and everyone wants to ignore that mess of an Inhumans series happened.

With AOS wrapping up next season I wouldn't be surprised if Inhumans are quietly forgotten about tbh.