The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 23

[BH/HHH]

Here is my podcasts latest episode where we discuss our favourites and least favourites of Marvel both MCU and non MCU

https://youtu.be/aIyB5DnBeWE

 

[Silvermoth]

I’m going to need a cigarette after that

 

[Iceman]

Alright- so, I wasn't sure if I was going to write this post, but the topic seems to have kind of rolled around to it, so here goes....

A couple of days ago, I was watching "making of" documentary on the 2003 Daredevil, and the director, who had been into the character since childhood, was talking about the stunt work, and how all these things he wanted for the movie just couldn't be done. You could just see and hear the abject sense of defeat and disappointment in his speaking and demeanor.

Cut to a bit later, and I decided to follow it up with a "making of" for the first Fox-Men (lots of great little nuggets like McKellen saying that Singer "doesn't know much"- check it out if you can). From minute one we're hit over the head with how Singer wanted a sense of realism in his movie about people who shoot beams out of their eyes and read minds. Realism, realism, realism. Oh, that and that he didn't care about the comic books- but we already knew that.

The more I thought about it the projects- and just the absolute contrast in approach, mindset, and passion between the two directors- the more I said to myself "Dammit, Daredevil should have been the good one, not this wannabe biker gang!"

And then I watched something on Infinity War where I think the Russos who "counted themselves as fans long, long before they ever became film-makers in the MCU." Passion coupled with ability.

So, what point am I trying to make? I don't entirely know. Maybe this is just the incoherent rantings of a rabid fan. Maybe I'm trying to say how disappointed I am that passion doesn't seem to be what propels these movies to greatness. That passion isn't enough. That, like some sort of cosmic joke, even being bereft of that passion can take you further as a film-maker. That we can love these characters with every fiber of our being, and still not have it be enough. That a franchise can go on for nearly two decades being ashamed of itself. That we could have gotten to where we are today with the X-Men coming home years ago if things turned out just a bit differently. Or at least gotten something better along the way.

Well, I think that's all I have in me for now. I don't know if this even needed to be said for the thousandth time or if it'll spark any discussion, but if you made it this far, thanks for listening to me vent.

Passion unfortunately isn’t enough by itself or we here would be making the films.

Ability is crucial and then passion from the creators for the source material can really give us what we want as fans.

 

[Iceman]

Tom Rothman slithered on over to Sony, where his distaste for superheroes and desire for profit above all things is fueling the wretched No-Spider-Man Spiderverse.

Rothman and Pascal, that is dream team material! t:

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

OMG....did everyone read this? Willie thinks Fart-tastic was a good movie!!!

Hey, I've read crazier response......just not many...

 

[Big Bang]

So are we expecting any updates from Disney on the 7th at the earnings call?

They should offer guidance on international approvals.

 

[Herofan]

I think there are a number of elements and it’s harder than it looks (or DC, Fox, and Sony would all be doing better).

Tim Story said some things I really liked, but those things didn’t translate to film.

It’s passion, it’s talent, it’s a knowledge of the comic books and which elements are most important, it’s an understanding of your audience, it’s having the support of the studio and talent around you (artists, costume designers, special effects people ). etc. etc.

Throughout Fant4stic, many people were saying it would be a good movie - though maybe not one that pleased fans.

I think something pretty weird was that with FF 05 it was pretty disliked that Reed was played as younger-seeming than he usually was in the comics and then with FF 15 he was cast/looked even younger (although some of the fan casting for a next version also are pretty young).

Reed can't be too much older than Sue but casting him really young seems like lacking confidence in the original material.

 

[Herofan]

The thing with Fox and Sony is they dont care about the source material or characters and it shows.

Well with the X-Men there's so much source material/story and so many characters it's pretty impossible and would be foolish to try to be really literally close. I think with Spider-Man Sony does deserve credit for hiring Raimi and letting him be fairly close to the source material but then with TASM it felt like they were pretty much just wanting to ripoff TDK & Twilight, lazily assuming that something generally popular would fit Spider-Man well enough too.

 

[TheVileOne]

Tim Story was not a good choice for Fantastic Four. At the same time, 20th Century Fox wasn't invested in making a pure movie about Marvel's First Family.

But the benefit is times have changed and its a new era. And without Fantastic Four, we may never have gotten Chris Evans as Captain America.

I wasn't sure if Evans could do it at first, but he nailed that character. Sometimes giving things a chance can work. Sometimes they don't work out.

That's why I try to be open-minded about certain casting or what not. At first, I wasn't convinced Evans could be Cap. Now I am. At first I wasn't convinced Ryan Reynolds could be Hal Jordan, but I was willing to give it a chance. That time, it didn't work. Them's the breaks.

 

[Iceman]

Tim Story was not a good choice for Fantastic Four. At the same time, 20th Century Fox wasn't invested in making a pure movie about Marvel's First Family.

But the benefit is times have changed and its a new era. And without Fantastic Four, we may never have gotten Chris Evans as Captain America.

I wasn't sure if Evans could do it at first, but he nailed that character. Sometimes giving things a chance can work. Sometimes they don't work out.

That's why I try to be open-minded about certain casting or what not. At first, I wasn't convinced Evans could be Cap. Now I am. At first I wasn't convinced Ryan Reynolds could be Hal Jordan, but I was willing to give it a chance. That time, it didn't work. Them's the breaks.

Yep, and at least in the MCU we seem to have gotten very lucky with the main hero castings. Very little to take issue with IMO.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I think something pretty weird was that with FF 05 it was pretty disliked that Reed was played as younger-seeming than he usually was in the comics and then with FF 15 he was cast/looked even younger (although some of the fan casting for a next version also are pretty young).

Reed can't be too much older than Sue but casting him really young seems like lacking confidence in the original material.

I think something like Reed and Ben early to mid thirties with Sue in mid to late twenties and Johnny late teens would work - and that was close to what they had in '05 except Johnny was too old.

Then in '15, the actors were all in their late twenties, but playing 18-19 (presumably) and that was completely wrong.

While they never specifically gave ages in the comics, I do remember on several occasions in the early issues they mentioned that Reed was "prematurely gray" and not as old as he looked (that always stuck out to me because it seemed an odd thing to do - I suspect it might have been a bit of ret-conning from Stan and Jack - initially wanting him to be older, but after they established the look deciding he should be a little younger).

 

[Iceman]

I don't want an overly young-looking Reed.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Tim Story was not a good choice for Fantastic Four. At the same time, 20th Century Fox wasn't invested in making a pure movie about Marvel's First Family.

But the benefit is times have changed and its a new era. And without Fantastic Four, we may never have gotten Chris Evans as Captain America.

I wasn't sure if Evans could do it at first, but he nailed that character. Sometimes giving things a chance can work. Sometimes they don't work out.

That's why I try to be open-minded about certain casting or what not. At first, I wasn't convinced Evans could be Cap. Now I am. At first I wasn't convinced Ryan Reynolds could be Hal Jordan, but I was willing to give it a chance. That time, it didn't work. Them's the breaks.

Are you old enough that you were around for Michael Keaton? That's the one I always think of when there is controversial casting, and I know I was as skeptical as everyone else with that casting. But in hindsight, he invented the modern Batman/Bruce Wayne, and everybody doing it now is basically doing something similar to what Michael Keaton created.

And as we've discussed on here, I think Ioan Gruffudd could have been a much better Reed with better script and better director, but he was playing Reed as he was being told to do him.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I don't want an overly young-looking Reed.

It's not just age, but stage presence. Jon Hamm was in his early to mid-thirties when he started Madmen, and I think he would have made a great Reed at that age. Meanwhile, Miles Teller is 31 now, but he would still be completely wrong.

 

[Dark Raven]

It's not just age, but stage presence. Jon Hamm was in his early to mid-thirties when he started Madmen, and I think he would have made a great Reed at that age. Meanwhile, Miles Teller is 31 now, but he would still be completely wrong.

Even if Miles Teller were 41 he'd still be completely wrong. He's a *****e playing whatever the opposite of a *****e is.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Even if Miles Teller were 41 he'd still be completely wrong. He's a *****e playing whatever the opposite of a *****e is.

Unteller?

 

[JeetKuneDo]

Are you old enough that you were around for Michael Keaton? That's the one I always think of when there is controversial casting, and I know I was as skeptical as everyone else with that casting. But in hindsight, he invented the modern Batman/Bruce Wayne, and everybody doing it now is basically doing something similar to what Michael Keaton created.

And as we've discussed on here, I think Ioan Gruffudd could have been a much better Reed with better script and better director, but he was playing Reed as he was being told to do him.

Great point about Keaton. He should get more credit for that.

And I liked Gruffudd as Reed. The problem might be that Reed is a boring detached character in the comics. When you put that character onscreen it's "boring" for some people. Might be one of the harder roles to play. Nothing "flashy" to make you look good. It's much easier to play the Green Goblin or the Joker. Nuance is tougher to pull off than extreme as an actor. Of course the latter normally gets the awards and acclaim.

Even if Miles Teller were 41 he'd still be completely wrong. He's a *****e playing whatever the opposite of a *****e is.

It's a mystery to me how he got lead roles.

 

[Iceman]

It's not just age, but stage presence. Jon Hamm was in his early to mid-thirties when he started Madmen, and I think he would have made a great Reed at that age. Meanwhile, Miles Teller is 31 now, but he would still be completely wrong.

Yes that's the key ingredient. Aside from that I'd prefer Reed to not have a baby face too.

 

[Marvel united]

Teller is a great actor, just not a good fit for Reed.

 

[Endeavor]

Yes yes, he'll do a fine lead in the eventual Bea Arthur biopic. But I don't want him anywhere near the MCU.

 

[Dark Raven]

Great point about Keaton. He should get more credit for that.

And I liked Gruffudd as Reed. The problem might be that Reed is a boring detached character in the comics. When you put that character onscreen it's "boring" for some people. Might be one of the harder roles to play. Nothing "flashy" to make you look good. It's much easier to play the Green Goblin or the Joker. Nuance is tougher to pull off than extreme as an actor. Of course the latter normally gets the awards and acclaim.



It's a mystery to me how he got lead roles.

Well that depends who is writing him. I think writers played up that stereotype the longer he went on. He was more of a typical leading man adventurer scientist in the 60s. Not so much of a pure nerd.

In the 60s, in films, they tended to combine the action hero with the scientist. Think of something like Fantastic Voyage. It was more common to see the leading man fulfilling both tropes.

Since then they've kind of split that between a man of action who is more brawn than brains, and a purely brainy type who is completely in his head. That's what's happened to Reed.

Of course, in Star Trek, they split that type with Captain Kirk as the man of action and Spock as the scientist. But Reed really needs to be a combination of both. He needs to be Kirk, Picard and Spock rolled into one. An action man leader, a diplomat and a scientist.

Ioan Gruffudd was much more like Reed in Forever than he ever was in Fantastic Four. If he hadn't played Reed already, I'd think he would be a good choice now.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Yes yes, he'll do a fine lead in the eventual Bea Arthur biopic. But I don't want him anywhere near the MCU.

 

[The Infernal]

Teller is a great actor, just not a good fit for Reed.

I keep saying. Miles Teller, Cyborg Superman.

 

[DalekbusterFitz]

They gave us Spiderman 1 and 2.

That was way before the current MCU. Now they just try to copy the MCU and fail at every try.

 

[HBarnill]

They gave us Spiderman 1 and 2. Into the spider verse has potiental and Venom has yet to come out yet.

Sam Raimi gave us Spider-Man 1 & 2. Sony gave us Spider-Man 3 and the Amazing films.