The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 23

[Boom]

Sony letting the Spider-Man deal with Marvel expire would be beyond imbecilic. So it's a good possibility.

 

[DalekbusterFitz]

http://collider.com/kraven-the-hunter-movie-richard-wenk/amp/#click=https://t.co/MmLUeP2vs8

Please stop Sony

Who does Sony think are going to see a film about a Spider-Man villain the majority of moviegoers haven't heard of?

Just let Spider-Man fight Kraven The Hunter on the big screen, or that cool idea of Black Panther v Kraven come to light.

 

[Abudefduf]

This^ I'm hoping for this storyline

Spoiler

 

[Darkprime]

I hope Disney put something in writing that says Sony have to at least reconsider the deal and sit down with disney before walking away. Surely signing a deal with the mouse is almost like a binding contract.

 

[Venom 1988]

Oh jeez. Imagine a list like that for X-men.

For real lol

Appreciate it.

No problem

 

[Detective Conan]

Sony is certainly acting like the Spidey deal will be a relatively short one. I could see an extension to finish the trilogy, but I doubt the MCU is getting to S6.

The way I see it really depends on how confident they feel about their ability to make successful Spider-Man films without Marvel Studios. If Venom bombs( it will) then that obviously puts the cinematic universe in jeopardy which means they'll be much less aggressive with their cinematic universe plans. I actually am more confident that Marvel will regain the full rights to Spidey than I ever was with them getting FF and especially X-Men back. To me, it only feels like an inevitability -- there's little chance the Morbius, Silver & Black, and Kraven films ever see the light of day.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I can but its like 34 pages worth lol. Might have to put it in a few posts.

Spoiler

HERO OR VILLAIN ALTER EGO / REAL NAME (IF KNOWN)
A’Sai
Abner Dunson
Ace “Ace” Spencer
Agent 003 Duncan O'Neill
Agony Leslie Gesneria
Alberto Ortega
Alexis Sharp
Alien Symbiote / Alien Costume
(origin of the black-suited Spider-Man)
Alison Mongrain
Amun Jon Kasiya
Amy Chen
Andros
Angus Munro
Annex Alex Ellis
Answer, The Aaron Nicholson
Antro Hashi Noto
Anubia
Arachne Dr. Sylvia Yacqua
Araña Anya (Ana) Sofia Corazon
Armada
Armand Dubroth
Arnold Strunk
Arranger, The Oswald P. Silkworth
Ashcan Alexander “Alex” Woolcot
Aura Annie Herd
Bag-Man, The a.k.a. The Amazing Bag-Man, a.k.a. The Bombastic Bag-Man Peter “Pete” Benjamin Parker
Banjo
Basenji
Basilisk Wayne Gifford
Batwing James “Jimmy” Santini
Beetle Abner Jenkins
Belladonna Narda Ravanna
Bert Gilmore
Big Man (I) a.k.a. Mr. Big Frederick Foswell
Big Man (II) Janice Foswell
Big Wheel, The Jackson Weele
Bizarnage
Black Abbott, The
Black Alfred
Black Bee Damon Hooks
Black Cat Felicia Hardy
Black Fox, The Raul Chalmers
Black Insect Swarm
Black Tarantula (I) Carlos LaMuerto
Black Tarantula (II) Fabian LaMuerto
Blackie Gaxton
Blaze (I) Ashley Crawford, Thomas and Barry (students participating in a hoax)
Blaze (II) Kirk Donaghue
Blitz
Blood Rose Richard Fisk
Blood Spider
Bloodlust Beatta Dubiel
Bloodshed Wyndell Dichinson
Blowtorch
Bluebird (I) Zora Loftus
Bluebird (II) Sally Avril
Bob Rubens
Bombadier
Bomblast Parmenter
Boone
Bounty Hunter
Brace
Brainstorm Jimmy
Brainwasher, The Wilson Fisk
Bramer
Brother Power Achmed Korba
Brown Raincoat
Bruno Grainger
Buddy Corbett
Buel a.k.a. Plasmmage, a.k.a. Gremlyn-Lord
Bugeye Abner
Burglar a.k.a. Carjacker Carradine
Buzz, The Jack Jameson
Buzzard
Caesar "Big C" Cicero

Caiman
Calypso Calypso Ezili
Captain Power Dr. Christina "Chris" Carr
Captain Zero
Cardiac Dr. Elias “Eli” Wirtham
Carlyle, nicknamed Carlyle Calamari
Carnage Cletus Kasady
Carrion (I) Prof. Miles Warren
Carrion (II) Malcolm McBride / Malcolm MacBride
Carrion (III) Dr. William Allen
Cat a.k.a. Cat Burglar, Prowler
Cat, The Walter Hardy
Chakane
Chakra
Chameleon, The Dmitri Smerdyakov a.k.a. Dmitri Kravinoff
Chance Nicholas Powell
Charles H. "Charlie" Buchanan
Charlie
Charlie Shaddock
Chief Inspector Krahn, RCMP

Chloe Tran
Chtylok, the Che-K'n Kau
Clash
Clifton Arliss
Cloak Tyrone "Ty" Johnson
Col. Buchinsky
Coldheart Kateri Deseronto
Commanda Catherine D'Anton
Commuter Ron
Conchita Hernandez
Connie Hunt
Conundrum
Cordite
Corona Dagny Forrester / Dagney Forrester
Cosmic Spider-Man Peter “Pete” Benjamin Parker
Creaux
Creep
Crime-Master (I) Nick "Lucky" Lewis
Crime-Master (II) Nick Lewis, Jr.
Critical Mass Arnie Gunderson
Crown a.k.a. Hunger
Crushtacean
Cyber Scarlet Spider Joseph “Joe” Wade
Cyber-Hunters
Cyberslayers
Cyborg X
Cyclone André Gerard
D.K. David Kalen
Daddy Longlegs Ramsey Kole
Dagger Tandy Bowen
Dane Jan Radar
Dark Mairi of the Shore Mairi
Darter Randy Vale
Daze
Dead Aim
Deadmaker Anatolovich
Dealer, The
Delilah
Dementia
Demogoblin an unknown demon, fused with Jason Philip “The Hobgoblin” Macendale, Jr.
Dentist, The
Desinna
Digger (I)
Digger (II) former mobsters known as “The Vegas Thirteen”, including Freddie Carnevale, Santo Castellani, Jimmy “Little Man” Desanti, Louis Fredone, Tony Mascapone, George Sims and seven others
Discord
Disgraziato
Disruptor Richard M. Raleigh
Doctor Angst Jonas Mueller
Doctor Hope
Dr. Jonas Harrow
Dr. Judas Traveller and his Host
Dr. Karl Malus
Doctor Nero Dr. Royce Nero
Doctor Octopus (I) a.k.a. “Doc Ock” (I) Dr. Otto Octavius
Doctor Octopus (II) a.k.a. Lady Octopus, “Lady Ock” Dr. Carolyn Trainer
Doctor Paine Dr. Thaddeus Paine
Don Fortunato Vincente Fortunato
Don Moroni
Don Rigoletto
Donovan Zane
Doppelganger a.k.a. Spider-Man Doppelganger
Dormouse, The
Doug Powell
Draco Demosthenes Q. Drake
Dragon Men
Dragonfly (I) Karsano
Dragonfly (II) Meiko Yin
Dragons street gang
Dreadnoughts
Dryrot Paul Contoni
Duke
Dusk (I) Peter Parker
Dusk (II) Cassie St. Commons
“Dutch” Malone
El Muerto Juan Carlos Estrada Sanchez
El Toro Negro (The Black Bull) Sergio Torres
El Uno
Electro Maxwell "Max" Dillon
Elmak the Light-Shaper
Empathoid, The
Emperor of the Eastern Galactic Sector
Ent
Ephex, The
Equinox a.k.a. Thermodynamic Man, The Terrence “Terry” Sorenson
Excaliber "Slapper" Struthers
Ezekiel Ezekiel Sims
FACADE (Full Acclimation Combat And Defense Explo-skeleton) unknown – suspects include Archer Bryce and Cole Cooper
Fancy Dan (I) Daniel Brito
Fancy Dan (II) Dan Rubinstein
Finisher, The Karl Fiers
Firearm
Firebrand Broxtel
Firefist
Firelight Gabriel "Gabe" O'Hara
Flare
Flint
Flipside
Flying Fox
Flying Tiger
Fogg Thomas Fogg
Foreigner, The Basil, Rafael Sabitini, Lt. Christopher "Kris" Keating and others aliases
Fox, The Reynard Slinker
Foxy Briggs

Frank Cortese
Frank Cruz Franz Kraus
Frank Gibbs
Frankie the Fish
Freak
Fusion (I), the Twin Terror Hubert and Pinky Fusser
Fusion (II) Markley
Future Max Max
Fyodor Rebrov
Gale
Gantry
Gatekeeper, The
Gaunt Prof. Mendel Stromm
Gauntlet Alfredo Morelli
Gavin Thorpe
Gen. Nikolai Kutzof
Genetrix
Gentleman, The Gustav Fiers
Geoffrey “Boss” Barnett
George Hill
Gibbon, The Martin Blank
Goblinettes
Gog
Gorath Tenclaws
Gray Goblin, The Gabriel Stacy
Green Goblin, The (I) Norman Osborn II
Green Goblin, The (II)
a.k.a. “The New Goblin” Harold “Harry” Osborn
Green Goblin, The (III) Dr. Barton "Bart" Hamilton
Green Goblin, The (IV) Phillip “Phil” Urich
Green Goblin, The (V)
Green Goblin, The (VI) Norman "Normie" Harry Osborn
Green Goblin Construct
Gremlyns, The
Grim Hunter Vladimir Kravinoff
Gripes
Grizzly Maxwell Markham
Grunz
Guardian a hulking clone of Spider-Man
Gunplay Miho Mikashi
Gunther Stein
Guy Jones
Gypsy Moth Sybil Dvorak
Hal Goldman
Hammerhead
Hardshell Leila Davis
Harrier
Headhunter
Headsman, The
Helix Rafael Carago
Hermit Timothy Quail
Hershell
Hitman, The Burt Kenyon
Hobgoblin, The (I) Roderick Kingsley
Hobgoblin, The (II) Arnold "Lefty" Donovan
Hobgoblin, The (III) Ned Leeds
Hobgoblin, The (IV) Jason Philip Macendale, Jr.
Hobgoblin, The (V)
Hobgoblin 2211 Robin Bourne
Homo Arachnis Carlton Drake
Honcho
Honeysuckle Muldoon
Hornet (I) Peter Parker
Hornet (II) Eddie McDonough
Human Fly, The Richard Deacon
Humbug Prof. Buck Mitty
Hybrid Scott Washington
Hydro-Man Morris Bench
Hypertron a.k.a. Bobster Sturdevant E. "Bob" Robbins
Hypno-Hustler and the Mercy Killers
Ian Forbes
Iguana, The
Jack child-sized clone of Spider-Man
Jackal Prof. Miles Warren
Jack O’Lantern Jason Philip Macendale, Jr.
Jacks miniature clones of The Jackal and Spider-Man
Jaime Jade
Jake Martino
Jason Havershaw
Jason Tso
Jefferson Bolt
Jigsaw Billy "The Beaut" Russo
Jimmy “The Mouth” Tannen
Jimmy-Six Giacomo Fortunato
Joe Smith a.k.a. “A Guy Named Joe” Joseph “Joe” Smith
Joey
Joey Face
Joey Z
Jonathon Caesar
Josephine “Joey” Pulaski
Joshua Coolridge
Joystick Janice Olivia Yanizeski
Kaina Marcy Kane
Kaine flawed clone of Peter Parker
Kaneshiro
Kangaroo (I) Frank Oliver
Kangaroo (II) Brian Hibbs
Kid Ock Oliver “Ollie” Osnick
Killerwatt
Killshot
King Lizard
Kingpin, The Wilson Fisk, a.k.a. Harold Howard
Knight Malcolm Knight
Knockout Elizabeth Rawson
Komodo
Kraven The Hunter (I) Sergei Kravinoff
Kraven The Hunter (II) Alyosha “Al” Kravinoff
Kurudred the Blood Drinker a.k.a. Tyrant of Dolara, a.k.a. Master of the Night Spawn
Larry Arnold
Lasher (I) Ramon Hernandez
Lasher (II)
Leroy Tallon
Lightmaster (I) Dr. Edward Lansky
Light-Master (II)
Lightning Fist
Living Brain, The
Living Pharaoh, The Akasha Martinez
Lizard, The Dr. Curtis “Curt” Connors
Lizard Offspring
Lobo Brothers, The Carlos and Eduardo Lobo
Locksmith, The
Looter, The a.k.a. Meteor Man Norton G. Fester
Lorenzo Jacobi
Lucky Lobo
Mad Jack Daniel Berkhart & Maguire Beck
Mad Hatter, The
Madam Qwa
Madam Web / Madame Web Cassandra Webb
Madame Fang
Major Toler Weil
Malo
Man-Monster a.k.a. Smasher
Man-Mountain Marko Michael Marko
Manslaughter Marsdale Marsdale
Man-Spider Peter “Pete” Benjamin Parker
Man-Wolf Col. John Jameson
Master Monarch
Master of Vengeance Dwight Faron
Master Planner Dr. Otto Octavius
Master Programmer
artificial intelligence, based on the mind of Dr. Otto Octavius
Master Zei
Mechanoids
Medea
Medgar DuPaul
Megawatt Dirk Leyden
Menace
Meteor Man Norton G. Fester
Midas, the Golden Man Malcolm Merriwell
Mindblast Danielle Forte
Mindworm William Turner
Mirage Desmond Charne
Miss Arrow Ero
Mister Negative Martin Li
Molten Man Mark Raxton
Montana (I) Jackson W. Brice
Montana (II) Montana Bale
Morbius the Living Vampire Dr. Michael Morbius
Morgan Hall
Morlun
Morris “The Snake” Diamond
Morris Forelli
Morty Phillips
Moses Magnum
Mother Inferior
Mr. Brownstone Garrison Klum
Mr. Nacht
Mr. Nobody
Mr. P & Mr. Q
Mr. Zodiac Astro; sometimes in persona as Jane Virgo
Ms. Fortune Laura
M'Sieu Tete
Mud-Thing Sandman (Flint Marko/William Baker) and Hydro-Man (Morris Bench) fused together
Murder[er] By Spider
Muse Shannon Fitzpatrick
Mutilation Killer, The
Mysterio (I) Quentin Beck, sometimes posing in character under aliases like Dr. Ludwig Rinehart
Mysterio (II) Daniel “Dan” Berkhart
Mysterio (III) Francis Klum
Myth Monster, The

They certainly have enough characters to build an interesting world if they make the right decisions. But I kind of wonder if they know how to even start.

 

[wobbly]

Yup, if Venom bombs I can see Sony scuttling all these spin off plans sharpish.

Venom is the best draw of all those characters. Wouldn't bode well for spin offs no-one gives a sh#t about.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Will Disney think Spidey is worth 5 billion, though.

No way are the Spider-Man rights worth $5 billion. Those don't even include the merchandise rights which they already have in full. It could take 20-30 years for Disney just to break even on that.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Yup, if Venom bombs I can see Sony scuttling all these spin off plans sharpish.

Venom is the best draw of all those characters. Wouldn't bode well for spin offs no-one gives a sh#t about.

I wonder if part of it is a strategy like we've accused Fox of - creating the impression they're working on a number of films, so Marvel will have to open their wallet.

If Sony suspects Venom might bomb, they could be making a push now to get something from Disney before it comes out and Disney sees it's not working.

The Kraven news could signal they're trying to make something happen.

 

[Tymminator]

Personally, I think Sony is hoping that Venom, Kraven and what we else they are good because that increases the value that they can ask for the rights, because call me crazy or not, I think those rights are going to go back to Marvel/Disney and I think they think if this alternate Spidey-verse is good enough and received well enough, then Disney would be willing to pony up more for them as could see the benifit of sliding those stories and characters over after Sony did all the work of building and setting it up.

That said, I still their efforts so far don’t look so hot and personally I have little to no interest checking it out. Maybe it will be great, I dunno, but I have little to no interest.

 

[Bach]

Disney really needs to get Spidey back. All those movies Sony is planning will do nothing more than damage the brand and confused people unfamiliar with the comics.

I think Venom has to bomb just to teach Sony a lesson.

 

[ADollarADay]

I see Venom 1988 already posted the list. This is where the contracts are with the complete list including non exclusive characters (i.e. Kingpin is a shared character as is Spider-Woman (I) / Jessica Drew) and other characters (such as Marvel Zombies versions of the characters set forth on Schedule 6) cannot be used by either party.

Here is the link for one of the lists

https://wikileaks.org/sony/docs/07/... Deal Points/Executive Summary (Creative).pdf


There was also another document on wikileaks that has the full list that's called "Second Amended and Restated SPE#18S" dated September 15, 2011 that seems to have disappeared. I have it on my local and wouldn't mind sharing if someone wants to see it.

 

[Big Bang]

No way are the Spider-Man rights worth $5 billion. Those don't even include the merchandise rights which they already have in full. It could take 20-30 years for Disney just to break even on that.

Heck Spider-Man's film rights don't even approach $1 billion. They only hold value in Marvel's hands, and diminish in Sony's, which puts putting a valuation on them that much trickier.

Sony will find a way to screw up a Venom film. They specialize at this sort of thing.

 

[Darkprime]

They already screwed up making venom r rated which means a huge chunk of Tom Holland fans cant go see venom.

 

[ADollarADay]

Btw this is the Spider-Man PPT for the merch rights:

https://wikileaks.org/sony/docs/07/... License Agreement Update sent P.Pressler.ppt

All real data until FY2010 and estimated data for the others. The classical Spider-man merchandise is pretty consistent in the 8 figure digit. While the film specific merchandise is nice and a good quality movie will drive up higher sales it seems like it's not enough to make much of a dent on convincing Disney to resign the contract with Sony without any concessions from the latter on loosening their grip on the movie license.

 

[Nardz937]

They already screwed up making venom r rated which means a huge chunk of Tom Holland fans cant go see venom.

Venom is not going to be rated R. I can almost guarantee to you that.

 

[wobbly]

They already screwed up making venom r rated which means a huge chunk of Tom Holland fans cant go see venom.

Maybe just as well as this Venom has nothing to do with Spider-Man. Somehow.

 

[CaptainWagner]

They already screwed up making venom r rated which means a huge chunk of Tom Holland fans cant go see venom.

Venom is probably not rated R. THAT is a problem. Any Venom movie worth its weight in ooze should be Rated R. And trust me, kids would still find there way in. I saw a kid at Deadpool 2 with his family who literally had to sit in a high chair to see the screen.

 

[Darkprime]

Comic con 2017.

Speaking to ComicBook.com at San Diego Comic Con, Venom director Ruben Fleischer was asked if his film is approaching an R-rating or, at the very least, pushing the boundaries of violence and darkness. After all, Venom is a character known to be quite intimidating in Marvel Comics, given his violent and horrifying nature.

"That's the plan," Fleischer said. "It is not the plan, that's the movie. Our movie wants to honor the comics as close as we can tonally. In the comics, he bites people's heads off and eats brains. It would be weird to make a movie with Venom if he wasn't doing that. We tried to honor it as closely as possible. This is definitely a darker, more violent, more vicious Marvel character than I think anyone's ever seen before."

Sounds like Ruben is going for an r rating. If they push PG13 to the limits they could end up with MA15 which would still lock out some of the younger MCU fans. And the box office will take a hit as a result.

 

[Nardz937]

There have been 3 trailers and none of them have been redband. If it was R you'd think there would be by now with only two months until release.

I'm sure the director would have liked it to be R and the suits at Sony aren't having it. There may be an R rated edition when it hits blu-ray, but I'm pretty confident the theatrical release is going to be at least a hard PG-13.

 

[Spidey_62]

There have been 3 trailers and none of them have been redband. If it was R you'd think there would be by now with only two months until release.

I'm sure the director would have liked it to be R and the suits at Sony aren't having it. There may be an R rated edition when it hits blu-ray, but I'm pretty confident the theatrical release is going to be at least a hard PG-13.

Them saying stuff along the lines of "we're pushing the content" means they're going for a hard PG-13, which to me sounds like Spawn the movie 21 years later.

 

[TheVileOne]

Comic con 2017.

Speaking to ComicBook.com at San Diego Comic Con, Venom director Ruben Fleischer was asked if his film is approaching an R-rating or, at the very least, pushing the boundaries of violence and darkness. After all, Venom is a character known to be quite intimidating in Marvel Comics, given his violent and horrifying nature.

"That's the plan," Fleischer said. "It is not the plan, that's the movie. Our movie wants to honor the comics as close as we can tonally. In the comics, he bites people's heads off and eats brains. It would be weird to make a movie with Venom if he wasn't doing that. We tried to honor it as closely as possible. This is definitely a darker, more violent, more vicious Marvel character than I think anyone's ever seen before."

Sounds like Ruben is going for an r rating. If they push PG13 to the limits they could end up with MA15 which would still lock out some of the younger MCU fans. And the box office will take a hit as a result.

Hollywood double speak says they are going for a "hard" PG-13

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Given the success of Deadpool and Logan, why is SONY afraid to go R-rated with Venom?

 

[Nardz937]

Given the success of Deadpool and Logan, why is SONY afraid to go R-rated with Venom?

You answered your own question, mate