The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

[Marvel united]

Stop asking for F4 and X-men references in Avengers 4 people. This is the last hurrah of the OG Avengers and the finale of an era. There is no need to shoehorn mutants and space explorers there because you lack patience. This a celebration and a send-off for people we grew up for the past 11 years.

The mutants will come WHEN ITS TIME.

But shouldn't the people who are going to carry the franchise foward, at least get mentioned?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

EU will have their decision on the deal by October 19th.

European Antitrust Regulators Set Oct. 19 Deadline for Disney-Fox Deal Ruling

That's huge.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

But shouldn't the people who are going to carry the franchise foward, at least get mentioned?

The moment we get any mention of the FF in any form, I'm going to be THRILLED. I don't know where or when or in what form that mention is going to come, but I've been looking forward to it for over 40 years and I'm not going to stop now.

While it's not likely we'll see anything in Avengers, it will likely be technically possible.

And yes, just like how nearly every Marvel film in the past has set up future films, Avengers shouldn't be an exception (whether those films are Black Widow, Dr. Strange 2, Fantastic Four, or whatever).

 

[Detective Conan]

But shouldn't the people who are going to carry the franchise foward, at least get mentioned?

Sure, but this film is the last time we’ll be seeing most of these actors in these roles. It’s the final chapter for an era in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

Personally, I’m going to go against the grain and hope they don’t do a post-credit scene at all. Avengers 4 will likely have a very bittersweet finale with some very pivotal deaths so I just want the finality of it to sink in for audiences by it being the very first Marvel film without a post credit scene to signify this is the ‘end’(not literally the end as there’s literally going to be more movies after Avengers 4).

Unpopular opinion, I’m sure.

 

[BaronZemo]

But shouldn't the people who are going to carry the franchise foward, at least get mentioned?

Νο, they shouldn't. Let this ending marinate before throwing more teases. Let it sink in.

Oh, and the people that will carry this franchise forward are already in Avengers 4 and they are called Avengers. Or do some of ou believe the MOST POPULAR SUPERHERO TEAM IN THE WORLD that averages close 1.7 billion per film will take a backseat because mutants are about to start poping in?

Avengers are the A-team, not X-men.

 

[WeaponXCII]

EU will have their decision on the deal by October 19th.

European Antitrust Regulators Set Oct. 19 Deadline for Disney-Fox Deal Ruling

This is a huge development! And on the same day that Daredevil S3 is rumored to come out- I might be on the verge of a nerd heart attack that day.

I'm having a hard time remembering the finer details: what other countries' approvals/other aspects are we still waiting on for this to close?

 

[Detective Conan]

Can anyone here answer this: How likely is it that the European regulators will approve of the deal and what would happen if they block it? Will it be enough to kill the deal or will the Mouse find a way to circumvent that issue if such a thing were to occur?

 

[BaronZemo]

Is there a chance this will be finished before mid 2019? Probably like the first 3 months of next year? Or is it out of the question?

 

[PsylockeBlackWidow]

Can anyone here answer this: How likely is it that the European regulators will approve of the deal and what would happen if they block it? Will it be enough to kill the deal or will the Mouse find a way to circumvent that issue if such a thing were to occur?

I feel like EU will likely require more divestments and put conditions and Disney will work with them on such concerns since this is a huge one.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Is there a chance this will be finished before mid 2019? Probably like the first 3 months of next year? Or is it out of the question?

There's a chance it could be done before the end of the year. If the EU approves it on October 19th, the only big thing I still know hanging out there is China. And since other approvals have been relatively smooth and since the deal won't have a particularly large impact on the EU, I wouldn't be surprised if it's simply approved on the 19th.

The "first half of 2019" statement was probably based on the idea that there could be problems and things could drag out if there are problems.

If there aren't any problems, the dominoes could fall relatively quickly.

 

[Detective Conan]

I'm having a hard time remembering the finer details: what other countries' approvals/other aspects are we still waiting on for this to close?

If the EU regulators approve of the deal in time, then what’s left is China and a few more other countries. China is still an open question to me since they blocked the Qualcomm -NXP merger in retaliation over a trade dispute with the current administration.

Though one thing to be optimistic about is that Disney has a very good presence in the Middle Kingdom and has spent a ton a money on theme parks there, not to mention Disney movies, particularly Marvel movies do very well in China so I’m not sure China will block the deal.

 

[BaronZemo]

If the EU regulators approve of the deal in time, then what’s left is China and a few more other countries. China is still an open question to me since they blocked the Qualcomm -NXP merger in retaliation over a trade dispute with the current administration.

Though one thing to be optimistic about is that Disney has a very good presence in the Middle Kingdom and has spent a ton a money on theme parks there, not to mention Disney movies, particularly Marvel movies do very well in China so I’m not sure China will block the deal.

If i remember correctl Iger was greeted personall by the Chinese President so i don't think Disney will have trouble there.

 

[Marvel united]

Νο, they shouldn't. Let this ending marinate before throwing more teases. Let it sink in.

Oh, and the people that will carry this franchise forward are already in Avengers 4 and they are called Avengers. Or do some of ou believe the MOST POPULAR SUPERHERO TEAM IN THE WORLD that averages close 1.7 billion per film will take a backseat because mutants are about to start poping in?

Avengers are the A-team, not X-men.

I believe it's possible. Because of 3 reasons.

1. The X-Men universe in itself is big enough to sustain an entire universe by itself. Marvel could make an entire phase dedicated X-Titles if they really wanted to.

2. Kevin Feige is a fan of the X-Men and has expressed over the years how he would love to have them back. THR last year mentioned Feige being very excited to dive into the X-Men universe and MS already discussing a rebooted Wolverine

3. Before 2012, the X-Men dwarfed the Avengers in popularity. And the ONLY reason TA became what they did, was because of Marvel Studios building up their brand and Disney pumping billions of dollars into it. What do you think is going to happen when Marvel Studios gives the mutants the same treatment as the Avengers? When you start X-Men merch, X-Men cartoons, X-Men theme park rides etc? Who's to say they won't take back their crown? Now, yeah, the Singer films have tainted the brand. But the X-Men under Feige could easily prove to be a viable replacement for the Avengers In the future.

 

[PsylockeBlackWidow]

If the EU regulators approve of the deal in time, then what’s left is China and a few more other countries. China is still an open question to me since they blocked the Qualcomm -NXP merger in retaliation over a trade dispute with the current administration.

Though one thing to be optimistic about is that Disney has a very good presence in the Middle Kingdom and has spent a ton a money on theme parks there, not to mention Disney movies, particularly Marvel movies do very well in China so I’m not sure China will block the deal.

If i remember correctl Iger was greeted personall by the Chinese President so i don't think Disney will have trouble there.

Well if India which is China's neighbor approved it, they should have no trouble in China either.

 

[BaronZemo]

I believe it's possible. Because of 3 reasons.

1. The X-Men universe in itself is big enough to sustain an entire universe by itself. Marvel could make an entire phase dedicated X-Titles if they really wanted to.

2. Kevin Feige is a fan of the X-Men and has expressed over the years how he would love to have them back. THR last year mentioned Feige being very excited to dive into the X-Men universe and MS already discussing a rebooted Wolverine

3. Before 2012, the X-Men dwarfed the Avengers in popularity. And the ONLY reason TA became what they did, was because of Marvel Studios building up their brand and Disney pumping billions of dollars into it. What do you think is going to happen when Marvel Studios gives the mutants the same treatment as the Avengers? When you start X-Men merch, X-Men cartoons, X-Men theme park rides etc? Who's to say they won't take back their crown? Now, yeah, the Singer films have tainted the brand. But the X-Men under Feige could easily prove to be a viable replacement for the Avengers In the future.

There is no guarantee that X-men with the Marvel treatment is going to be as big as the Avengers. It's not very likely actuall. Avengers is lightning in the bottle and BY FAR the most popular team in the world. It doesn't matter what happened in the comics. The comic fandom makes for maybe 10% of the overall audience of the movies. Comics are a lake and the movies are the Pacific Ocean. To the vast majority of the world WHO DONT READ COMICS Avengers are the top superhero team. That's not going to change anytime soon.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Even if China wants to hold it up to gain some sort of leverage here or there, it's hard to make a case for the merger being a problem.

Neither Fox, nor Disney do the sort of business in China that would be affected by a merger. If they were producing films in China, it might be a different story, but they're not making much in China. And I'd be surprised if they have a many (if any) TV channels etc. in China.

So we're basically just talking about film distribution as being the major thing affected by the merger, and it would be hard for China to make a case that a film being distributed by the combined entity as opposed to the individual entities would harm their consumers in some way.

 

[Marvel united]

There is no guarantee that X-men with the Marvel treatment is going to be as big as the Avengers. It's not very likely actuall. Avengers is lightning in the bottle and BY FAR the most popular team in the world. It doesn't matter what happened in the comics. The comic fandom makes for maybe 10% of the overall audience of the movies. Comics are a lake and the movies are the Pacific Ocean. To the vast majority of the world WHO DONT READ COMICS Avengers are the top superhero team. That's not going to change anytime soon.

Why do you think that is? Why was the Avengers such a success? You need to look at the key ingredients and see how that can be applied to the X-Men. The Avengers are not going to be the flagship franchise of the MCU forever. Things change and evolve and it just so happens that the X-Men are the perfect candidate. There is no reason it can't be assumed that the X-Men under Disney won't be as big as the Avengers, especially with Iger wanting to make the franchise a priority for Disney.

The X-Men will have to take their rightful place back at, not just Marvel Studios but Marvel In general. It will be like the early 2000s again. When it happens, you're just going to have to make peace with it.

 

[Detective Conan]

Superman was at one point in time more popular than Batman in the comics and was DC’s top selling franchise but the tides have changed and no Superman film has ever made even close to the highest grossing Batman film. Just because they were top dogs in the comics doesn’t mean they have to be top dogs in the movies.

I wouldn’t count on X-Men getting that major a popularity resurgence, and the Avengers popularity was a lightening-in-the-bottle accomplishment that will likely never be replicated again.

I think an MCU X-Men film will make at least make between the 700-800 million dollar range worldwide. I don’t see it making a billion dollars.

 

[Spider-Fan]

The Avengers was something new for audiences to experience. The X-Men are not. We know the ceiling/floor of an X-Men movie at this point.

 

[Detective Conan]

I also would like to add the Fantastic Four was more popular than X-Men at one point in time(it was Marvel’s flagship title for a long time). The X-Men was largely considered a B-list property back when Stan and Jack created the property back in 63’ that struggled in sales.

So if we were to use the same logic that’s been said before about Marvel elevating their properties back to their former popularity status then presumably you could say the FF under Marvel could be restored to the position they had in the 60’s when they were the most popular Marvel title, and the X-Men were barely selling enough to prevent it from being cancelled but sadly it just doesn’t work that way.

 

[Detective Conan]

The Avengers was something new for audiences to experience. The X-Men are not. We know the ceiling/floor of an X-Men movie at this point.

And of course it doesn’t preclude the possibility of an MCU X-Men movie breaking that ceiling and make a little more than before but I still don’t see the Mutants joining the billion dollar club.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I haven't seen an X-Men movie yet.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I saw those films called X-Men that Fox produced, but unlike Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Dr. Strange, The Avengers etc., they never felt like the X-Men from the comic books to me.

I have no reason to believe that Marvel has hit any sort of high-water mark. They're just starting to hit their stride.

With special effects technology getting to the point that fully digital sets and actors can be done relatively cheaply, I believe we're just at the beginning of seeing films that are truly only limited by the imagination of the creator (which is the thing that made comic books work so well in the Golden and Silver ages when film special effects were highly limited).

There's nothing magical about the Avengers, and I frankly think most Marvel movies we've seen so far have been limited by cost and technology (in hindsight, the original Iron Man, Thor and Captain America films seem very simple with mostly practical effects and clear efforts to prevent the budgets from ballooning when viewed in the context of films we've seen since then).

I still have the irrational fear that Marvel will forget everything they've learned when they do the FF, but that's an irrational fear. My more rational side tells me the best is yet to come.

You ain't seen nothing yet.

 

[wobbly]

X-Men did get effectively cancelled. 'Giant Sized X-Men' relaunched the series after a 5 year break (between 1970 and 75 Marvel only kept the series going using reprints).

Even with its growing popularity with the new team it was still selling less than Fantastic Four through the early 80's. Think it was towards the mid to late 80's the mutants really took over big time at Marvel (for better or worse).

 

[Smurphftw]

The Avengers was something new for audiences to experience. The X-Men are not. We know the ceiling/floor of an X-Men movie at this point.

I think there is going to be a significant difference between a Fox X-Men ceiling and a Disney/Marvel X-Men ceiling.

 

[ADollarADay]

Superman was at one point in time more popular than Batman in the comics and was DC’s top selling franchise but the tides have changed and no Superman film has ever made even close to the highest grossing Batman film. Just because they were top dogs in the comics doesn’t mean they have to be top dogs in the movies.

I wouldn’t count on X-Men getting that major a popularity resurgence, and the Avengers popularity was a lightening-in-the-bottle accomplishment that will likely never be replicated again.

I think an MCU X-Men film will make at least make between the 700-800 million dollar range worldwide. I don’t see it making a billion dollars.

I think you may be underestimating the man who made obscure characters like GoTG, Dr. Strange, and Ant Man household names and gross over 600MM at the BO. The same man who made Captain America, Iron Man, and Thor being arguably as popular as Batman today. Heck, some are expecting the next Spider-man to gross 1B and it would not surprise me. HC was the 2nd best SM movie of all time at the BO and it was the first time under MS.

While Avenger is a ridiculous high mark and maybe too much to ask, but I wouldn't be surprised to see X-Men movies gross over 1B. I can see Marvel building up to Apocalypse the same way they build up to Thanos. Maybe it'll take some time for it to fall back in good with audiences like Spidey, but Feige knows what he's doing and I wouldn't bet against him.

The Avengers was something new for audiences to experience. The X-Men are not. We know the ceiling/floor of an X-Men movie at this point.

That's faulty logic. Do we know the ceiling and floor for FF movies at this point as well?