The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

[Kuwolski]

Because for games all that Marvel needs is Disney and Insomniac and if Marvel is making a Marvel Games Universe Disney should push and monetize it. animation just get better writers like the one's from EMH.

I wish it were that simple, but there seems to be a philosophy at Marvel animation that these shows be made exclusively for the young demographic. Perhaps that will change if they start creating animation for the streaming service. The stuff on XD is kiddie crack.

 

[Xeno]

I wish it were that simple, but there seems to be a philosophy at Marvel animation that these shows be made exclusively for the young demographic. Perhaps that will change if they start creating animation for the streaming service. The stuff on XD is kiddie crack.

Nothing will change with Marvel's cartoons until and unless Jeph Loeb is replaced. He sees the audience for the XD shows as 2 to 6-year-old boys and he has dumbed them down to appeal to his targets. But Loeb is only doing Disney's bidding, to be honest. The Mouse bought Marvel to gain a foothold with young boys to parallel its dominance of girlhood via the princesses. They seem to have lost sight of the fact that the most successful cartoons are the ones that appeal to both kids and adults.

 

[Kuwolski]

Nothing will change with Marvel's cartoons until and unless Jeph Loeb is replaced. He sees the audience for the XD shows as 2 to 6-year-old boys and he has dumbed them down to appeal to his targets. But Loeb is only doing Disney's bidding, to be honest. The Mouse bought Marvel to gain a foothold with young boys to parallel its dominance of girlhood via the princesses. They seem to have lost sight of the fact that the most successful cartoons are the ones that appeal to both kids and. adults

Which is surprising to me considering they don't do it for their animated features. Not to mention the Star Wars shows on XD which are made for a much broader appeal in the demos. So why do they do it for Marvel? It's frustrating, especially since they started out so strong on XD with EMH....What happened?

 

[WeaponXCII]

LOL! I'm loving the negative reviews for Venom! I guess Sony is someone who keeps falling into the same manhole but refused to learn from the experience. Venom without Spider-Man is definitely NOT Venom, and perhaps after this movie tanks commercially as well as critically Sony will finally take a hint.

Yeah right.

That's actually my singular concern for this.

Do you guys think that, the one time we actually want Sony to be reactionary, they won't be?

 

[BaronZemo]

Why would they cut out dealing with Sony for games? That's where Sony are actual rock stars.They just released a great Spider-Man game in partnership with Sony Interactive and Insomniac. Even the Sony produced Spectacular Spider-Man animated series destroys anything Marvel Animation has done under Disney aside from EMH. Marvel Studios is in a great place, but the Animation department is lousy right now and the TV division is like any other aside from HBO or FX, some great shows, some Good/OK shows, some bad shows.

I agree about the animation department but marvel TV is doing great on multiple platforms and the vast majority of their are regarded good/great.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

That's actually my singular concern for this.

Do you guys think that, the one time we actually want Sony to be reactionary, they won't be?

It's hard to predict what Sony will do. If they had any sense, they wouldn't have even started going down this road. At this moment, I think there are three possibilities:

1. Sony continues the path they're on.
2. Sony stops. Waits to get Spider-man back and then starts over using Spider-man as the building block.
3. Sony recognizes that they need Marvel and renegotiates to give Marvel full or partial control.

The bad reviews seem to make #1 less likely, but, we don't have the box office numbers yet. Venom could still do well at the box office (particularly internationally), and that could allow Sony to shrug off the bad reviews.

I think #2 gives Sony the biggest long-term potential, but I don't know if they can actually do it right, and I also suspect they don't have the patience to build that slowly. They want cash flow NOW, not 5 years from now. So I think they'll be reluctant to go that route.

At this moment, I'm thinking, after they realize that they can't make money even off of a theoretically lucrative character like Venom, they'll go with #3, but I don't have a huge amount of confidence in that.

If they can't make money with Venom, they certainly can't make money with Kraven. We all know that, but we knew how foolish this was two years ago.

 

[Xeno]

Which is surprising to me considering they don't do it for their animated features. Not to mention the Star Wars shows on XD which are made for a much broader appeal in the demos. So why do they do it for Marvel? It's frustrating, especially since they started out so strong on XD with EMH....What happened?

I think it boils down to Loeb. He canceled the popular EMH for two reasons: 1. He didn't create it; and 2. He considered it too highly serialized and complex for young children to grasp. (Before a certain person comes @ me, Loeb admitted both of these motives in interviews.) A major reason to aim shows at young boys is to push toy sales. As if adults aren't the true consumers of toys, buying them both for children and for themselves as collectibles.

 

[Crimz]

I think it boils down to Loeb. He canceled the popular EMH for two reasons: 1. He didn't create it; and 2. He considered it too highly serialized and complex for young children to grasp. (Before a certain person comes @ me, Loeb admitted both of these motives in interviews.) A major reason to aim shows at young boys is to push toy sales. As if adults aren't the true consumers of toys, buying them both for children and for themselves as collectibles.

It's amazing that there are still people out there that think like that. They just have to look at how successful and lucrative anime is.

I hope something changes soon when it comes to Marvel Animation.

 

[Detective Conan]

Box-Office Preview: 'Venom' to Deliver $57M-$65M; 'A Star Is Born' Could Cross $30M
Isn’t it funny that now the Fantastic Four have come home(or will come home) what we have to worry about now is Spider-Man potentially being taken out of the MCU?

*gulp*

 

[WeaponXCII]

It's hard to predict what Sony will do. If they had any sense, they wouldn't have even started going down this road. At this moment, I think there are three possibilities:

1. Sony continues the path they're on.
2. Sony stops. Waits to get Spider-man back and then starts over using Spider-man as the building block.
3. Sony recognizes that they need Marvel and renegotiates to give Marvel full or partial control.

The bad reviews seem to make #1 less likely, but, we don't have the box office numbers yet. Venom could still do well at the box office (particularly internationally), and that could allow Sony to shrug off the bad reviews.

I think #2 gives Sony the biggest long-term potential, but I don't know if they can actually do it right, and I also suspect they don't have the patience to build that slowly. They want cash flow NOW, not 5 years from now. So I think they'll be reluctant to go that route.

At this moment, I'm thinking, after they realize that they can't make money even off of a theoretically lucrative character like Venom, they'll go with #3, but I don't have a huge amount of confidence in that.

If they can't make money with Venom, they certainly can't make money with Kraven. We all know that, but we knew how foolish this was two years ago.

Here are my ideas on the possibilities:

1. This would end up like the Fox situation, but worse. Every character they touch will be tarnished forever; Marvel won’t want to touch any of them, if they ever could get them back. Where would that leave them? Dumb and dumber (Arad and Pascal- I can't decide which one is which in this situation ) are going to have to do a lot of work justifying pressing on with this as of now to the higher-ups.

2. Sony rips Spider-Man from the MCU, already garnering massive amounts of contempt from the general public, and then uses him as the building block for… what? A universe filled with characters they themselves already failed to adapt? Or the ones that will invariably lead to an influx of MCU/Raimi comparisons? If they can’t build a universe without Spider-Man (granted he is integral to all this), I seriously doubt they can do it with him. It’s similar to your point on a Doctor Doom solo movie: that we’ve only seen a bad Doctor Doom not because he’s a bad character, but because he’s been in bad FF movies. Putting a good Spider-Man in a poorly-designed universe won’t make that universe magically good. Oh yeah, and Sony definitely never has, nor will be, good at taking their time. Gotta get that “quick” Avengers money, right?

3. I think that this has a decent chance of happening- maybe even more than you. As inept as they are, to their credit, Sony seems much less stubborn than Fox, and more willing to form a partnership.

Whatever their announcement, I hope they make it soon, rather than just sitting on it. Although they may end up doing exactly that to put Marvel in a position where they want them. We don’t exactly have a precedent for how Sony behaves strategically (just typing that made me laugh audibly! ), since all this happened because of the leaks, right?

Venom is their crown jewel (crown turd?); if this doesn’t take off, I don’t see anything happening. But trying to make sense of these companies is like trying to draw a square circle. Anything can happen. Haven’t you seen the swarms of people clamoring for a Jackpot movie?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Box-Office Preview: 'Venom' to Deliver $57M-$65M; 'A Star Is Born' Could Cross $30M
Is it weird that now the Fantastic Four have come home(or will come home) what we have to worry about now is Spider-Man potentially being taken out of the MCU?

*gulp*

Yeah, we're getting kind of spoiled, and it will be a little disappointing if, once the X-Men and FF are home they don't have Spidey, but I'll still be happy with the FF and mutants.

We really need those Fox characters to properly define the MCU. Spidey is a huge character on his own, but he also is able to operate more autonomously. He's not typically involved in major, Universe-altering events the way Reed Richards, Charles Xavier, Galactus and Doom are.

If Sony somehow, miraculously, figures out how to make it work, it could actually be a sort of cool thing to have a Spider-Verse.

I just have little faith in them figuring it out, but if they can't figure it out, Marvel will eventually get him back, so I think the long term outlook is somewhat positive no matter what.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Here are my ideas on the possibilities:

1. This would end up like the Fox situation, but worse. Every character they touch will be tarnished forever; Marvel won’t want to touch any of them, if they ever could get them back. Where would that leave them? Dumb and dumber (Arad and Pascal- I can't decide which one is which in this situation ) are going to have to do a lot of work justifying pressing on with this as of now to the higher-ups.

2. Sony rips Spider-Man from the MCU, already garnering massive amounts of contempt from the general public, and then uses him as the building block for… what? A universe filled with characters they themselves already failed to adapt? Or the ones that will invariably lead to an influx of MCU/Raimi comparisons? If they can’t build a universe without Spider-Man (granted he is integral to all this), I seriously doubt they can do it with him. It’s similar to your point on a Doctor Doom solo movie: that we’ve only seen a bad Doctor Doom not because he’s a bad character, but because he’s been in bad FF movies. Putting a good Spider-Man in a poorly-designed universe won’t make that universe magically good. Oh yeah, and Sony definitely never has, nor will be, good at taking their time. Gotta get that “quick” Avengers money, right?

3. I think that this has a decent chance of happening- maybe even more than you. As inept as they are, to their credit, Sony seems much less stubborn than Fox, and more willing to form a partnership.

Whatever their announcement, I hope they make it soon, rather than just sitting on it. Although they may end up doing exactly that to put Marvel in a position where they want them. We don’t exactly have a precedent for how Sony behaves strategically (just typing that made me laugh audibly! ), since all this happened because of the leaks, right?

Venom is their crown jewel (crown turd?); if this doesn’t take off, I don’t see anything happening. But trying to make sense of these companies is like trying to draw a square circle. Anything can happen. Haven’t you seen the swarms of people clamoring for a Jackpot movie?

True, but I think one thing to keep in mind (as I touched on with my above post that I was posting as you were posting this) is that if Sony really does implement your worst-case scenarios, it can't be sustainable, right? I mean they can't just crank out crap on top of crap without something breaking.

I believe I've heard that Spider-man is on a much tighter leash than FF, and Sony has much less than the 7-8 year window that Fox had with FF. That means they either have to make movies fans want, or they'll lose it. That's what's keeping me somewhat optimistic.

 

[Lilbaz]

True, but I think one thing to keep in mind (as I touched on with my above post that I was posting as you were posting this) is that if Sony really does implement your worst-case scenarios, it can't be sustainable, right? I mean they can't just crank out crap on top of crap without something breaking.

I believe I've heard that Spider-man is on a much tighter leash than FF, and Sony has much less than the 7-8 year window that Fox had with FF. That means they either have to make movies fans want, or they'll lose it. That's what's keeping me somewhat optimistic.

They just have to make films. Into the spideyverse 2,3,4,5. Morbius animated etc... they can churn out decent quality and cheap films forever. Throw in a few spidey films aswell.

 

[Bach]

Not sure why the IMDb score is so high.

 

[Lilbaz]

Not sure why the IMDb score is so high.

The two reviews on youtube that have actually seen the movie grace randolph and mr h both liked the film. It's out in the uk and other countries so some people might like it. Although audience and imdb scores can be misleading as people have agendas.

Edit - hn entertainment just put another youtube review saying bad but still enjoyable. Emergency awesome gave it a b.

 

[Crimz]

Box-Office Preview: 'Venom' to Deliver $57M-$65M; 'A Star Is Born' Could Cross $30M
Isn’t it funny that now the Fantastic Four have come home(or will come home) what we have to worry about now is Spider-Man potentially being taken out of the MCU?

*gulp*

 

[Raiden]

Nothing will change with Marvel's cartoons until and unless Jeph Loeb is replaced. He sees the audience for the XD shows as 2 to 6-year-old boys and he has dumbed them down to appeal to his targets. But Loeb is only doing Disney's bidding, to be honest. The Mouse bought Marvel to gain a foothold with young boys to parallel its dominance of girlhood via the princesses. They seem to have lost sight of the fact that the most successful cartoons are the ones that appeal to both kids and adults.

I don’t understand why they can’t handle Marvel like they did with Pixar; Pixar movies are appealing to both children and adults.

 

[Endeavor]

I don’t understand why they can’t handle Marvel like they did with Pixar; Pixar movies are appealing to both children and adults.

I don't think it's as simple as blaming Disney for the dumb turn Marvel Animation has made. Loeb was dumbing down cartoons way before he became responsible for Marvel TV. He and his puppetmaster Ike are the main culprits.

 

[Fallen]

Not sure why the IMDb score is so high.

Where are the Gaga fans when you need them? Haha, jk.

IMDb scores are useless, they can be manipulated.

Although audience and imdb scores can be misleading as people have agendas..

Black Panther.

 

[Lilbaz]

Where are the Gaga fans when you need them? Haha, jk.

IMDb scores are useless, they can be manipulated.


Black Panther.

Don't think in this case that imdb might be that far wrong in the end. The critics with film or arts backgrounds have slammed it but a lot of youtubers that do film reviews seem to have enjoyed it and think it's good fun. Not a great film by any means but a solid film. I have no idea as haven't seen the film but the few posters on here that have seen the film vileone etc... seem to share the same feelings towards it, an enjoyable film that they had a good time.

 

[Darkprime]

Once again the anti-mcu brigade comes out and cries critic bias when non-mcu comic book movies like venom get negative reviews. The critics are always wrong In their eyes. The same thing happened with FF In 2015. I'm seeing it all over FB its embarrassing.

 

[Big Bang]

Hmmm

Possibly of late 2018 is gaining traction from what I've read. Biggest hurdle at the moment is EU approval, which is set to be announced on 10/19. EU will either approve deal or refer for further 4 month review. Direction seems to be to approve since Disney/Fox sold Sky to Comcast, thus reducing further market impact. Remaining markets on track for approval by end of the year. MCU could be 99% whole before Captain Marvel even premiers.

 

[Darkprime]

Possibly of late 2018 is gaining traction from what I've read. Biggest hurdle at the moment is EU approval, which is set to be announced on 10/19. EU will either approve deal or refer for further 4 month review. Direction seems to be to approve since Disney/Fox sold Sky to Comcast, thus reducing further market impact. Remaining markets on track for approval by end of the year. MCU could be 99% whole before Captain Marvel even premiers.

Since they didn't get sky I see no other reason for the EU to delay approval. Does any of the Fox owned channels disney are getting operate in the EU? Thats the only other conflict of interest I could see.

 

[Big Bang]

Since they didn't get sky I see no other reason for the EU to delay approval. Does any of the Fox owned channels disney are getting operate in the EU? Thats the only other conflict of interest I could see.

FX, FXX, etc. Premium cable channels, etc. IIRC, most of Fox's premium content is controlled by Sky, so by letting a competitor get control of them that should alleviate any existing competitive concerns.

 

[Darkprime]

Looks like it should be smooth sailing from EU then. Unless they delay approval out of spite. Even if they begin a 4 month investigation it will still close by March-June. So it would be right within their official forecast. China feels like its gonna be the biggest hurdle. Despite Disney having a good relationship with China the tariff situation obviously isn't helping.