The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

[ironwez20]

What alterations? Sony gives up all TV rights? Sony starts paying Disney a fee of the BO gross as opposed to the other way around? Hard date for the rights to revert? Rights not transferable? What?

Why would Sony want to sign a deal that loosens their iron grip on the license when something like Venom did 800MM+ without Marvel's help?

I’m sorry but this is all venom’s fault tbh. If that damn movie hadn’t of done so well we’d never worry bout this now arad is back in power and probably opting to pull spidey out as we speak.

I swear the majority thought venom was an mcu movie since Spider-Man is in the mcu aswell. Cause people asked if he’s gonna be in infinity war. Now the movie did huge numbers and we might lose marvel’s flagship character to another one of Avi’s stupid franchises. I wish he’d leave the character alone.

It’ll be sad that after this film he just up and disappears and stars in some watered down universe. Man I hate it cause venom is my fav villain and it wasn’t a bad movie but screw that movie if we lose the rights again. I can’t beli people went to see a venom solo movie without Spider-Man

 

[Darkprime]

I mean there are arguments to be made that Venom doing well could be a good thing for us. Maybe Sony realizes they don't need spiderman perse but marvel let's them use Miles in the venomverse. I think two spiderman would be the best scenario. One MCU one Sony.

 

[Spider-Fan]

How can they do this? Now Fury is directly involved with Peter and Spider-Man is about to become an international icon. They have to keep him in somehow

No they don't. He'd just never be mentioned again. That's exactly how they would explain it.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

The Avengers brand is like gold right now, imagine X-Men and F4 having that same gravitas for the mass public alongside that then.

I think X-MEN will be cooler

 

[ADollarADay]

I mean there are arguments to be made that Venom doing well could be a good thing for us. Maybe Sony realizes they don't need spiderman perse but marvel let's them use Miles in the venomverse. I think two spiderman would be the best scenario. One MCU one Sony.

Or maybe Sony execs will think we can produce it ourselves and pull in one bil with Spider man and have our own Cinematic Universe. Having known execs throughout my career they are more likely to think this way than your fan hopeful way, I'm sorry to say.

 

[InCali]

I think getting Cyclops back is the biggest benefit for the MCU out of deal.

Cyclops is THE LEADER. Skilled. Torchered. Focused. Compassionate. Respected. He is the ultimate leader next to Captain America.

He has Ironman level demons and Captain America's integrity.

Feige has his new leader.

And here we all thought he was a jealous schoolboy and prone to juvenile outbursts.....

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I mean there are arguments to be made that Venom doing well could be a good thing for us. Maybe Sony realizes they don't need spiderman perse but marvel let's them use Miles in the venomverse. I think two spiderman would be the best scenario. One MCU one Sony.

If I were Sony, I'd be pushing for this (with a deal that gives me a cut of the Marvel films featuring Spider-man).

That would seem to work all around. Sony would be able to feature the hip, new Spider-man that they have already introduced to a receptive audience. Marvel would continue to be able to use their Spider-man and Sony would be getting "free money" from those Marvel films.

The trickiest part of such a deal would be the supporting characters, but If Sony mapped out a long term plan, they should be able to determine which characters they're most interested in and which Marvel could use. And there could even be some overlap with those characters because they are "alternate universes".

 

[Dark Raven]

If I were Sony, I'd be pushing for this (with a deal that gives me a cut of the Marvel films featuring Spider-man).

That would seem to work all around. Sony would be able to feature the hip, new Spider-man that they have already introduced to a receptive audience. Marvel would continue to be able to use their Spider-man and Sony would be getting "free money" from those Marvel films.

The trickiest part of such a deal would be the supporting characters, but If Sony mapped out a long term plan, they should be able to determine which characters they're most interested in and which Marvel could use. And there could even be some overlap with those characters because they are "alternate universes".

They already used Ganke in the form of Ned Leeds for Homecoming. They shouldn't have done that but stuck to the traditional Peter Parker cast. Maybe for Miles they'll have someone named Ganke who looks like Harry Osborn or traditional Flash Thompson.

 

[Endeavor]

Or maybe Sony execs will think we can produce it ourselves and pull in one bil with Spider man and have our own Cinematic Universe. Having known execs throughout my career they are more likely to think this way than your fan hopeful way, I'm sorry to say.

Unfortunately this is the more likely scenario.

 

[Endeavor]

And here we all thought he was a jealous schoolboy and prone to juvenile outbursts.....

You're thinking of Wolverine
100+ years old
still behaving like an bratty teenager on steroids

 

[Xeno]

So I was doing some reading and it turns out just before the Daredevil rights reverted to marvel around 2012 marvel went to fox trying to get some cosmic characters back(silver surfer and galactus) in exchange for extending the Daredevil rights. Fox declined and well the rest is history. Kinda funny how things worked out.

Fox were just being their usual dog-in-the-manger jerkass selves when they rejected the Galactus/Surfer deal. Everyone involved knew that Fox never had any intention of spending the sort of money needed to properly realize those characters in the FF franchise. They just wouldn't let the "potential" be exploited by Marvel Studios, even if they were compensated and retained ultimate control of the rights.

 

[Shuri]

I just have this sinking feeling that we're never getting Spider-man back, at least for a while.

 

[Dark Raven]

I just have this sinking feeling that we're never getting Spider-man back, at least for a while.

And that's exactly why this thread exists and shouldn't be closed. The same was said about the FF and X-Men multiple times in the past.

 

[ADollarADay]

If I were Sony, I'd be pushing for this (with a deal that gives me a cut of the Marvel films featuring Spider-man).

That would seem to work all around. Sony would be able to feature the hip, new Spider-man that they have already introduced to a receptive audience. Marvel would continue to be able to use their Spider-man and Sony would be getting "free money" from those Marvel films.

The trickiest part of such a deal would be the supporting characters, but If Sony mapped out a long term plan, they should be able to determine which characters they're most interested in and which Marvel could use. And there could even be some overlap with those characters because they are "alternate universes".

I find it unlikely that Disney would give Sony any backend compensation unless they get the rights back in full after the period is over.

Fox were just being their usual dog-in-the-manger jerkass selves when they rejected the Galactus/Surfer deal. Everyone involved knew that Fox never had any intention of spending the sort of money needed to properly realize those characters in the FF franchise. They just wouldn't let the "potential" be exploited by Marvel Studios, even if they were compensated and retained ultimate control of the rights.

That's why I kept harping around that time that Fox would have never let those rights revert. Too valuable. They would have rushed that FF kids and Dr. Doom movie and extended the rights another 7, 8 years. Same reason why Universal is petty about Hulk (and maybe Namor if they have it) rights. They can't do anything, but too valuable somewhere else. Aquaman just did a billi, no reason to think a well introduced Namor can't do the same. A standalone TIH2 with Abomination, Red Hulk would do 700MM+. Easily. NBCU's suits know that.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

I just have this sinking feeling that we're never getting Spider-man back, at least for a while.

I think Disney will eventually get him back. If they're anything, they're relentless about their Marvel IP.

They'll find a way.

 

[Darkprime]

I cant help but wonder if the Galactus/Surfer deal with Fox went through would we have seen Silver Surfer in Infinity War?

 

[Iceman]

I cant help but wonder if the Galactus/Surfer deal with Fox went through would we have seen Silver Surfer in Infinity War?

If it had gone through a couple of years ago then there would have been a strong chance IMO.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Let's just say MCU X-Men first started like this:

But not necessarily as X-Factor, but it starts with the O5 bringing the band back together after months apart, and then the sequels can steadily bring in Storm, Wolverine, Rogue, Gambit, blah blah.

A Marvel origin movie without the origin. Then you can always play on the past adventures they had in flashbacks and all that fun stuff.

 

[Marvel united]

Welp

Let's just say MCU X-Men first started like this:

But not necessarily as X-Factor, but it starts with the O5 bringing the band back together after months apart, and then the sequels can steadily bring in Storm, Wolverine, Rogue, Gambit, blah blah.

A Marvel origin movie without the origin. Then you can always play on the past adventures they had in flashbacks and all that fun stuff.

I suggested this too, that the X-Men could have been a thing awhile ago with the O5, maybe it was some sort of Government project that lasted a couple of months, everybody went their separate ways. And after mutants start emerging in the present, Charles calls upon the now adult members of the O5 to help form a new X-Men team. Basically repurposing the original concept/idea from years ago into what we have now.

I'd personally be very happy this. It's a way of doing a pseudo origin story and having a proper learning curve for these characters without starting from the very beginning.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I find it unlikely that Disney would give Sony any backend compensation unless they get the rights back in full after the period is over.

There's got to be a number. They're not going to give Sony $50 million per film, but they'd be fools not to give Sony $1 per film if that would allow them to continue to use Spider-man.

There's got to be a number between those two extremes that would make sense for both studios.

 

[Darkprime]

There's got to be a number. They're not going to give Sony $50 million per film, but they'd be fools not to give Sony $1 per film if that would allow them to continue to use Spider-man.

There's got to be a number between those two extremes that would make sense for both studios.

I dont think Disney is about to give Sony a piece of the Avengers pie. No way. Sony already get 100% of the box office for the solo movies it must have stung that Disney got nothing from Homecoming and will get nothing Far From Home. Feige and his team basically doing work for free.

 

[ADollarADay]

There's got to be a number. They're not going to give Sony $50 million per film, but they'd be fools not to give Sony $1 per film if that would allow them to continue to use Spider-man.

There's got to be a number between those two extremes that would make sense for both studios.

If I'm a Sony exec I want something similar to what Disney has to pay of every SM gross (3.5%, less if grosses over 750MM) for a loan on a per movie basis. If I'm a Disney exec I'm offering 9-10% of the gross for 3 movies (2 avengers and 1 SM ensemble movie) to get the full rights back. Neither one will want that and it remains to be seen whether they compromise or find another way. 1MM per film is nothing. Sony can have a higher ROI by taking the property 100% back in house.

I dont think Disney is about to give Sony a piece of the Avengers pie. No way. Sony already get 100% of the box office for the solo movies it must have stung that Disney got nothing from Homecoming and will get nothing Far From Home. Feige and his team basically doing work for free.

That's not correct. Sony pays Feige and his team producer fees to produce the Marvel Studios/Sony distributed Spider-man movies.

 

[Marvel united]

I'm pretty sure the original deal that was proposed (which was subsequently rejected) had Sony getting a % of the box-office of any movie Spider-Man appeared in

 

[ADollarADay]

I'm pretty sure the original deal that was proposed (which was subsequently rejected) had Sony getting a % of the box-office of any movie Spider-Man appeared in

That was from Ike Perlmutter to the then CEO of Sony Pictures, Michael Lynton. That was for 5% of Civil Wars, Infnity Wars, and Endgame. I'm not sure, but I think that included the solo Spider man flicks as well. However, that was for a permanent transfer of the rights, not the temp one that took place.

 

[Dark Raven]

If the next Spider-Man film is called "Spider-Man: Leaving Home" then we know he's probably on his way out of the MCU.