The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 4

[Spiderine]

Deadpool enjoyed a box office run with little comp. Can we say the same of Apocalypse? And unlike DOFP no original cast featured. I just don't see huge numbers. But we shall see.

 

[Tilapia]

I thi nk Phase 4 is still the perfect time to bring them im either as the Phase 4 intro, or finale. Because lets be honest they're running out of interesting Avengers villains with out big hitters like Galactus, Kang and Doom.

A larger question is can you merge those characters into the existing Avengers franchise including Spidey and the FF, while dumping the big guns like Cap, Thor, Iron Man in the event that those actors are too expensive and you choose not to recast? I'm not sure the remaining Avengers can support the franchise by themselves. Or does Avengers spin off into the FF franchise? Is it Avengers "In Name Only", with characters like Parker and Reed leading the team?

A lot of these characters will need to be closed out. Dr. Strange, Captain Marvel, and Panther might flop and be one off movies, but for now, let's say they get at least one sequel. That's basically PIV projects. Can those characters, plus say Ant-Man, carry an Avengers movie without Stark, Cap, and Thor? You still have carry overs like Vision and Scarlet Witch as well. Let's call Spidey an Avenger as well. Still, that's not really Avengers without the big 3.

So what's that next big Marvel ensemble franchise? I don't see it being Avengers In Name Only. I don't see it being The Fantastic Four. I would actually prefer Marvel to focus exclusively on self contained stories with some calculated and appropriate cross overs... with the Avengers going their separate ways in large part.

 

[Zarex]

The Avengers will remain the MCU ensemble films regardless of the team make up. By the end of Phase 3 they'll have introduced (at least) Iron Man, Cap, Thor, Hulk, War Machine, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Falcoln, Vision, Scarlet Witch, Black Panther, Ant Man, Wasp, Spider-Man, Valkrie, Dr. Strange and Captain Marvel as Avengers or Avenger adjacent. And they could even bring in Mantis from the Guardians, Luke Cage from the Defenders or Quake from AOS. Feige and company have a lot of options going forward.

 

[Mike5575]

A larger question is can you merge those characters into the existing Avengers franchise including Spidey and the FF, while dumping the big guns like Cap, Thor, Iron Man in the event that those actors are too expensive and you choose not to recast? I'm not sure the remaining Avengers can support the franchise by themselves. Or does Avengers spin off into the FF franchise? Is it Avengers "In Name Only", with characters like Parker and Reed leading the team?

A lot of these characters will need to be closed out. Dr. Strange, Captain Marvel, and Panther might flop and be one off movies, but for now, let's say they get at least one sequel. That's basically PIV projects. Can those characters, plus say Ant-Man, carry an Avengers movie without Stark, Cap, and Thor? You still have carry overs like Vision and Scarlet Witch as well. Let's call Spidey an Avenger as well. Still, that's not really Avengers without the big 3.

So what's that next big Marvel ensemble franchise? I don't see it being Avengers In Name Only. I don't see it being The Fantastic Four. I would actually prefer Marvel to focus exclusively on self contained stories with some calculated and appropriate cross overs... with the Avengers going their separate ways in large part.

Why do people assume that these new characters can't lead the Avengers? Maybe you should at least give Captain Marvel, Doc Strange, and BP a chance before judging them, huh? Civil War reviews have been out for a while, and everybody loves BP. I think it's bs that only a select few can lead the team. Nonsense. Black Panther and if Captain Marvel is cast right, )which she probably will be) will be the next leaders of the Avengers.

 

[Web-Head]

Don't forget about Doctor Strange. Cumberbatch alone brings people in

 

[Spiderine]

They are thus far doing an excellent job setting up the next generation of characters as we speak. BP will get a huge boost in Civil War or Avengers part 2 and a half leading up to his solo in 2018. Dr Strange looks to be the most unique Marvel film to debut. Spiderman is now apart of this too. Captain Marvel will likely get her debut in IW1 and her solo is squeezed in between both Avengers films.

GOTG is already gone cosmic for the MCU. They are grooming the next bunch of heroes to carry on and using the current batch to pass the torch.

My only concern is beyond 2019 after IW2 once they cap off the Thanos saga. We don't know the direction they go in as far as massive threats they encounter. We all got our predictions and the potential will still be there. Not concerned about the heroes moving forward. Its the stories and villains. Can they keep things fresh with innovative storytelling and interesting villains. A lot of those characters remain under the FF umbrella.

 

[ernesth100]

I think if they get the F4 back they F4 should be the new focus team for a bit at least 1 phase before they make another Avengers film. People will need something new from the epicness that is going to be Infinity Wars.

The F4 has the best lineup of threats tbh. Annihlus, Galactus, Doom, Beyonder, Skrulls, Kang. Some of those like, Doom, Beyonder, and Skrulls can actually stretch over multiple films. It's the smartest choice they can make.

And they can still have cameos from whatever heroes don't die in IW.

 

[Tilapia]

There is just... quite a noticeable drop off during opening credits if there is not, "Starring RDJ". Plus I think Cap dies in Avengers 3/4. Evans has done enough with the character to retire him permanently. Hemsworth might come back if his other films keep flopping. Or they get Liam to replace him, God have mercy on our souls.

I agree with the above. Avengers needs a break. Black Panther can cross over into FF. Dr. Strange can have his own franchise. Silver Surfer can show up in Guardians against Galactus.

I don't think Avengers is your default ensemble for the next 15 years. Every franchise needs a breather after a while. Avengers simply doesn't have the brand power as say, Star Wars or Star Trek in terms of cross generational appeal (you only get that by reinvigorating the brand years later). It's very much a contained story focusing on select relationships. It's not the same if you suddenly remove the big four and expect only a small drop off in brand power and recognition.

How about Marvel's answer to the Suicide Squad as an ensemble in a few years time? Get a Spidey villain like Ock or Norman, Baron Zemo, Doom, and whomever else to take down Kang. Just a crazy thought.

But no, I don't believe you just plug in Spidey as an Avenger and expect no drop off if you lose the founding 4-6.

 

[ernesth100]

Completely agree with all of that. Couldnt gave said it better myself. As much as I love Spidey and as big as he is. I mean they will eventually change the roster a bit for Avengers.

And there will be a drop off at first. But if the quality is still as good it will gain a new audience with time. Just like the MCU when it was starting.

 

[Knight_SV]

I don't see XMA will make a big bucks too. The marketing and trailers wasn't impressive so far. They just seemed to rellied more on Raven Everdeen to make the bucks. If fox was planning on utilised jlaw star power to draw hunger games viewers and reader that won't work, because i doubt HG fans like CBM movies or like X-men. Not all everyone who like katniss everdeen will like mystique just because they were played by the same actress.

 

[Tilapia]

Edit original.

I don't see XMA will make a big bucks too. The marketing and trailers wasn't impressive so far. They just seemed to rellied more on Raven Everdeen to make the bucks. If fox was planning on utilised jlaw star power to draw hunger games viewers and reader that won't work, because i doubt HG fans like CBM movies or like X-men. Not all everyone who like katniss everdeen will like mystique just because they were played by the same actress.

Is it surprising, that the most powerful actress in the world, is a figure of controversy? Absolute power corrupts, absolutely. (That sums it up better).

 

[jaymes_e06]

I honestly think Apocolypse qill make alot .more than Deadpool though.

I agree as long as it's good. It will do well.

 

[Raiden]

Why do people assume that these new characters can't lead the Avengers? Maybe you should at least give Captain Marvel, Doc Strange, and BP a chance before judging them, huh? Civil War reviews have been out for a while, and everybody loves BP. I think it's bs that only a select few can lead the team. Nonsense. Black Panther and if Captain Marvel is cast right, )which she probably will be) will be the next leaders of the Avengers.

Don't forget Spider-Man!

 

[ernesth100]

I agree what Mike you wint like it until ya try it.

 

[Web-Head]

I think the villains alone make the F4 worth it.

 

[Mike5575]

There is just... quite a noticeable drop off during opening credits if there is not, "Starring RDJ". Plus I think Cap dies in Avengers 3/4. Evans has done enough with the character to retire him permanently. Hemsworth might come back if his other films keep flopping. Or they get Liam to replace him, God have mercy on our souls.

I agree with the above. Avengers needs a break. Black Panther can cross over into FF. Dr. Strange can have his own franchise. Silver Surfer can show up in Guardians against Galactus.

I don't think Avengers is your default ensemble for the next 15 years. Every franchise needs a breather after a while. Avengers simply doesn't have the brand power as say, Star Wars or Star Trek in terms of cross generational appeal (you only get that by reinvigorating the brand years later). It's very much a contained story focusing on select relationships. It's not the same if you suddenly remove the big four and expect only a small drop off in brand power and recognition.

How about Marvel's answer to the Suicide Squad as an ensemble in a few years time? Get a Spidey villain like Ock or Norman, Baron Zemo, Doom, and whomever else to take down Kang. Just a crazy thought.

But no, I don't believe you just plug in Spidey as an Avenger and expect no drop off if you lose the founding 4-6.

Comic book characters don't have a shelf-life. Actors do. They won't/can't do this forever. So, at some point that drop-off is going to happen. That's the beauty of phase 3. Marvel is introducing a slew of new characters to replace some, if not all of the old guard of Avengers. So, when the old actors lead, people will already know about Black Panther and Captain Marvel and they will think that they're really cool and want to see more of them. People are already warming up to Scarlet Witch, Falcon, Black Panther, and Ant-Man...

By the time of Infinity War, Marvel will have solo franchises for Ant-Man, Black Panther, Captain Marvel, and Doctor Strange. Those 4 franchises could very possibly make the same amount of money as the three franchises of Thor, Cap, and Iron Man.

 

[Dark Raven]

No spoilers in this thread please.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I'm not going to see Apocalypse. I'm still too pissed at Fox for FF and the previews don't do anything for me.

But I'm sure it will do very well. It has the kind of sheer mass that guarantees a certain minimum box office value (but also a very high budget that has to be covered).

Fox will probably be watching very closely for any signs of "X-Men Fatigue". If the numbers slide just a little bit from DOFP, that means another effort (without shaking things up significantly) could become a much riskier proposition.

And if that happens, Fox already has the answer - make Deadpool and Colossus and Gambit and Cyclops and Beast and Wolverine (with a younger actor) films and then bring those characters together every few years for a big event film.

But as I type that, I realize that the above formula has seemed obvious for the past 10 years but Fox hasn't gone that route.

 

[ernesth100]

Well okay, I can understand. I personally think Foz is about to invest in more R-Rated features.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Well okay, I can understand. I personally think Foz is about to invest in more R-Rated features.

You're probably right, but did people go to see Deadpool because it was R-Rated, or did people go to see Deadpool because it was a well-done film that was faithful to the character?

If Fox had made a well-done FF film that was faithful to the characters, that likely would have been a bigger blockbuster than Deadpool.

But now they've squandered that chance and nobody will ever trust them with FF again.

 

[Dark Raven]

You're probably right, but did people go to see Deadpool because it was R-Rated, or did people go to see Deadpool because it was a well-done film that was faithful to the character?

If Fox had made a well-done FF film that was faithful to the characters, that likely would have been a bigger blockbuster than Deadpool.

But now they've squandered that chance and nobody will ever trust them with FF again.

If they hire Josh Trank for a reboot of the FF, people's hopes might begin to rise again with ever-increasing optimism.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

If they hire Josh Trank for a reboot of the FF, people's hopes might begin to rise again with ever-increasing optimism.

How about Josh Trank to replace Bryan Singer? Give some of those people who were telling us how great FF would be a taste of their own medicine.t:

 

[Endeavor]

How about Josh Trank to replace Bryan Singer? Give some of those people who were telling us how great FF would be a taste of their own medicine.t:

The massive bouts of manic hysteria and deep depression that news would cause is liable to kill some of the psy-sensitive folks who don't have enough shielding to guard against such events.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

The massive bouts of manic hysteria and deep depression that news would cause is liable to kill some of the psy-sensitive folks who don't have enough shielding to guard against such events.

But I want to be able to go to the X-Men boards every day and tell them how great the film looks.

 

[Dark Raven]

How about Josh Trank to replace Bryan Singer? Give some of those people who were telling us how great FF would be a taste of their own medicine.t:

They would all be in denial and would defend it until the end, even when the entire movie is filmed in a warehouse, Magneto starts to wear a trash bag and a bunch of the X-Men get drunk for no explicable reason.