The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 4

[jaymes_e06]

I don't think Disney would have a problem if Fiege decided to make an R rated film. Marvel acts pretty independently from Disney and they've been good at letting Marvel do what they want. Disney simply own the company and so far just lets the CEO run how he wants (for better or worse) It's only recently that Fiege doesn't have to report to Marvel's CEO.

Even still Disney has no concerns of images from what Marvel does. There's no Disney logo attached to any of their movies. It's never promoted as part of Disney's brand, Marvel has their own identity. There are only two reasons why they don't have an R rated film. One, they don't have any plans for a film with a character the needs the film to be hard. And two, R rated films are no where near as profitable as PG-13 movies. In the past few decades R-rated blockbusters have had a significant drop in profitability. One main reason why is because you cut out kids and teens from buying tickets. Plus now you can get away with fantasy violence to pass the mpaa ratings. Disney knows better than to confuse brands, whether or not the MCU makes a R film will depend more on profits than some standard to which they've never applied to Marvel before.

That's not true there is a committee in charge of all decisions made including some that are in charge of Disney. They are the ones distributing the content after all. Maybe not as much but to say they aren't involved at all is kind of niave don't you think?

I know for a fact that even something as simple as changing the intro to the films Marvel emblem is said to be a large corporate decision.

And your last statement is kind of irrelevant when factoring so many R rated films that have done tremendously well including this years Deadpool.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I don't mean just vulgarity I mean less child friendly and I've read comics that weren't G rated so I feel sorry for the people who limited their experience in such a way.

There are all kinds of different comic books. There are all kinds of different books. There are all kinds of different movies.

Marvel Comic books during the Silver Age were governed by the Comics Code Authority and that shaped the kind of stories and characters we got.

Because of that, when I think of the FF or Hulk or Spider-Man or Captain America or Iron Man or any of the other characters I'm interested in seeing, I don't associate them with gratuitous violence, sex etc. They were fun adventures with superheroes with superpowers.

I haven't seen Deadpool and I'm not really interested. There is no need for an R-Rating to properly tell the stories of any of the characters who are on the current roster of Marvel films.

If they choose to do a Punisher movie, sure, it should probably be R-Rated. I probably won't be going. It's not a character I have any interest in.

Should the FF be R-Rated? Absolutely not, in my opinion. Since this is a discussion of the FF, I'm not sure why we're even discussing it.

Should I be rooting for Fox to keep FF so they can make an R-Rated FF? That's not going to happen.

 

[Angryfantasyfan]

Disney only makes big budget films, and there are only two R-rated films in the top 100 grossing movies.

 

[jaymes_e06]

You know Hulk raped everything in the Ulimates? Do you just chose to ignore the fact that Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver were in a incestuous relationship or... etc.

Seems like you must not like Wolverine who kills all the time either and just want everything sunshine and rainbows all the time huh?

I think within the FF themselves they are the most perfectly toned franchise to the way Disney Marvel are running.

 

[Dark Raven]

There are all kinds of different comic books. There are all kinds of different books. There are all kinds of different movies.

Marvel Comic books during the Silver Age were governed by the Comics Code Authority and that shaped the kind of stories and characters we got.

Because of that, when I think of the FF or Hulk or Spider-Man or Captain America or Iron Man or any of the other characters I'm interested in seeing, I don't associate them with gratuitous violence, sex etc. They were fun adventures with superheroes with superpowers.

I haven't seen Deadpool and I'm not really interested. There is no need for an R-Rating to properly tell the stories of any of the characters who are on the current roster of Marvel films.

If they choose to do a Punisher movie, sure, it should probably be R-Rated. I probably won't be going. It's not a character I have any interest in.

Should the FF be R-Rated? Absolutely not, in my opinion. Since this is a discussion of the FF, I'm not sure why we're even discussing it.

Should I be rooting for Fox to keep FF so they can make an R-Rated FF? That's not going to happen.

If they do make an R-rated FF movie, then it will be as the FFINO defenders kept trying to assure us that if we had patience we would eventually be rewarded: just wait for the trailers; just wait for the reviews; just wait for the sequel; just wait for the BR/DVD; just wait for the reboot; just wait for the R-rated version; just wait for the X-rated version.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

You know Hulk raped everything in the Ulimates? Do you just chose to ignore the fact that Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver were in a incestuous relationship or... etc.

Seems like you must not like Wolverine who kills all the time either and just want everything sunshine and rainbows all the time huh?

I think within the FF themselves they are the most perfectly toned franchise to the way Disney Marvel are running.

There are a lot of bad comic books that have been written over the years. Are you saying you want to see Hulk raping everything and you want incest in your comic book films?

There are plenty of other films for people who want to see rape and incest. Those elements don't need to be in Marvel films.

I'm 51 years old. I read comic books from the time I was about 5 to 15. I want to see things on film that remind me of what I read as a 5 to 15 year old.

I don't speak for all fans, just myself, but Marvel is giving me what I want. Fox is giving me crap.

 

[jaymes_e06]

Disney only makes big budget films, and there are only two R-rated films in the top 100 grossing movies.

Captain America: The First Avenger- PG 13 rated
Budget: $140 million
Box Office: $370.6 million

Lucy- R rated
Budget: $40 million
Box office: $463.4 million

Thor- PG 13
Budget: $150 million
Box office: $449.3 million

Kill Bill: Volume 1- R
Budget: $60 million
Box office: $333.1 million

As you can see most of these R rated films relative to their budget made more money in profit than many Marvel films (significantly more infact) and Lucy a very standard R rated film outgrossed not one but two of Marvel's films so I don't see a problem.

 

[Angryfantasyfan]

Did you miss the part where I said Disney only makes big budget movies? They aren't going to change their m.o. because of Deadpool.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

The porn industry makes huge money. They make big profits on minimal investments.

Maybe Disney and Marvel should do porn.

When you look at the biggest films in history and you look at what Civil War is doing right now, it's a little hard to find fault with the way Disney does things.

 

[jaymes_e06]

There are a lot of bad comic books that have been written over the years. Are you saying you want to see Hulk raping everything and you want incest in your comic book films?

There are plenty of other films for people who want to see rape and incest. Those elements don't need to be in Marvel films.

I'm 51 years old. I read comic books from the time I was about 5 to 15. I want to see things on film that remind me of what I read as a 5 to 15 year old.

I don't speak for all fans, just myself, but Marvel is giving me what I want. Fox is giving me crap.

I feel like right now this is you:

My point is very mature content has been prevalent in comics since they premiered that's why the Comics Code were created.. . that and an overzealous dude that became obsessed with sexuality being refrenced in any capacity in them.

But keep loving that code that were the hallmark of oppression when first enacted...

I'm glad the comic industry shifted and doesn't share your sentiment otherwise we would never have fantastic books like Watchmen or Preacher let alone the Image comics like Spawn and The Darkness.

 

[jaymes_e06]

Did you miss the part where I said Disney only makes big budget movies? They aren't going to change their m.o. because of Deadpool.

Why though? Who tf needs a 250 million dollar Blade, Punisher or Daredevil film.... not me.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I feel like right now this is you:

My point is very mature content has been prevalent in comics since they premiered that's why the Comics Code were created.. . that and an overzealous dude that became obsessed with sexuality being refrenced in any capacity in them.

But keep loving that code that were the hallmark of oppression when first enacted...

I'm glad the comic industry shifted and doesn't share your sentiment otherwise we would never have fantastic books like Watchmen or Preacher let alone the Image comics like Spawn and The Darkness.

I get your point. Your point is just completely irrelevant to anything I care about and equally irrelevant to this thread which is about the Fantastic Four.

If you want to talk about Watchmen, Preacher, Spawn and The Darkness, why don't you talk about those on forums about Watchmen, Preacher, Spawn and The Darkness. Those properties have zero to do with the Fantastic Four.

I couldn't care less about any of those.

 

[jaymes_e06]

Your the one who started talking about the comics code and blanket generalizations about other characters not to mention porn... not me but I digress.

Anyway if and when the FF come to Marvel what kind of deal do you see happening with Fox?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Anyway if and when the FF come to Marvel what kind of deal do you see happening with Fox?

If I were setting Vegas odds on what we'll hear in the following year, I'd put it at:

Approximately 40% likelihood:

1. Marvel and Fox will be starting a new era of cooperation in which they will work much more closely together and there will be crossovers between the two. Any new FF films will be produced by Marvel, but Fox will be paying the bills (similar to the Sony deal).

Approximately 30% likelihood:

2. Marvel will be taking over the rights to FF. Fox will continue to operate mostly autonomously, but Marvel will be supporting them with much more with merchandising etc. Both studios will look into possible opportunities for crossovers in the coming years.

Approximately 30% likelihood:

3. No real news or something completely different than either of the above.

 

[jaymes_e06]

I see. I agree wth all of those possibilities. I wonder just to put something out there I have no idea about what if they could make a deal to make a Netflix show vs a film?

It might make the transition easier to accomplish as it gives them more time to flesh out the characters. Or potentially have it part of their Fox TV deal and put it on Fox network/ ABC with an option of bringing them in if the show does well. Just a thought...

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

There are a lot of bad comic books that have been written over the years. Are you saying you want to see Hulk raping everything and you want incest in your comic book films?

There are plenty of other films for people who want to see rape and incest. Those elements don't need to be in Marvel films.

I'm 51 years old. I read comic books from the time I was about 5 to 15. I want to see things on film that remind me of what I read as a 5 to 15 year old.

I don't speak for all fans, just myself, but Marvel is giving me what I want. Fox is giving me crap.

This mirrors my own feelings. That's the reason I watch these films. If I want something more mature I seek out entertainment that doesn't involve people flying around in costumes.

Personally I'm disturbed by this seeming trend to take what was originally intended as material for "all ages" and turn it R-rated whether it's the Hobbit or Superman. You got films targeting adults with gratuitous sex and violence with toys on the shelf for the kiddies. Personally I think it's kind of messed up.

I know that the superhero genre offers more than escapism. I know there are darker stories. I'm not talking about source material that was mature from the get go. I'm talking about twisting material that was meant to be accessible to a wider audience.

Films like The Incredibles, Zootopia and the Jungle Book prove that you can deliver great entertainment for all ages that doesn't forget the spirit in which it was originally conceived.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I see. I agree wth all of those possibilities. I wonder just to put something out there I have no idea about what if they could make a deal to make a Netflix show vs a film?

It might make the transition easier to accomplish as it gives them more time to flesh out the characters. Or potentially have it part of their Fox TV deal and put it on Fox network/ ABC with an option of bringing them in if the show does well. Just a thought...

Somebody had mentioned (not sure if it was here or another thread) doing a Doom origin Netflix show. I think that would be great, but I don't think you can do the FF justice on a Netflix or TV budget. It would have to be something before they get their powers ( 5 minutes of the Thing will either max out a TV budget or look cheesy as hell . . . and that's just one component, start adding giant monsters, alien settings etc. etc. etc. all the things that make the FF the FF and you're either way over budget or looking like an old episode of Star Trek).

But a young Doom and/or a young Reed pre-accident could make for a cool show if done right.

 

[jaymes_e06]

Yeah that would make sense. Though to be fair:

And that was on a CW budget.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

This mirrors my own feelings. That's the reason I watch these films. If I want something more mature I seek out entertainment that doesn't involve people flying around in costumes.

Personally I'm disturbed by this seeming trend to take what was originally intended as material for "all ages" and turn it R-rated whether it's the Hobbit or Superman. You got films targeting adults with gratuitous sex and violence with toys on the shelf for the kiddies. Personally I think it's kind of messed up.

I know that the superhero genre offers more than escapism. I know there are darker stories. I'm not talking about source material that was mature from the get go. I'm talking about twisting material that was meant to be accessible to a wider audience.

Films like The Incredibles, Zootopia and the Jungle Book prove that you can deliver great entertainment for all ages that doesn't forget the spirit in which it was originally conceived.

An interesting anecdote that many around here may already be well aware of: When the first cut of Star Wars was submitted to the MPAA for rating, they rated it G. Lucas and the studio didn't want it to be perceived as a movie for kids, so they added this:

To get the PG rating.

Star Wars, Fantastic Four and most Marvel films fall into the same category for me: All ages. A seven year-old and a 70 year old should be able to enjoy them equally. They don't need to be aimed at one or the other.

 

[Zarex]

I see. I agree wth all of those possibilities. I wonder just to put something out there I have no idea about what if they could make a deal to make a Netflix show vs a film?

It might make the transition easier to accomplish as it gives them more time to flesh out the characters. Or potentially have it part of their Fox TV deal and put it on Fox network/ ABC with an option of bringing them in if the show does well. Just a thought...

Hank is a furry blue mutant with a haughty, professorial demeanor.

Simon is a former actor transformed into a being of pure ionic energy.

When they come together to open a detective Agency, watch out multiverse!!

Coming this fall to FX.

Nathan Fillion and Kelsey Grammer are

"Wonder Man and the Beast"

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Yeah that would make sense. Though to be fair:

And that was on a CW budget.

I just literally watched that episode last night, and I have to give them credit.

But that's also probably the most expensive thing they did all season and he was only onscreen for a couple minutes total.

 

[jaymes_e06]

Hank is a furry blue mutant with a haughty, professorial demeanor.

Simon is a former actor transformed into a being of pure ionic energy.

When they come together to open a detective Agency, watch out multiverse!!

Coming this fall to FX.

Nathan Fillion and Kelsey Grammer are

"Wonder Man and the Beast"

I'd watch it...

 

[ADollarADay]

As a non comic book reader, what the hell are people talking about when they say Hulk was raping people? And SW/QS were banging? WTF? Those things are not going to happen in the MCU. Not with those characters. A black widow solo movie will not be R rated like Lucy, even if it's similar in nature.

Now, Marvel does have hard R rated characters IMO, such as Blade, Punisher, and (I think) Ghost Rider; and those characters deserve R rated movies.

Those characters though will not behave like R rated characters in cross over movies. For example, Kingpin will not crush a skull with a car door if he shows up in Spiderman Homecoming.

If I were setting Vegas odds on what we'll hear in the following year, I'd put it at:

Approximately 40% likelihood:

1. Marvel and Fox will be starting a new era of cooperation in which they will work much more closely together and there will be crossovers between the two. Any new FF films will be produced by Marvel, but Fox will be paying the bills (similar to the Sony deal).

Approximately 30% likelihood:

2. Marvel will be taking over the rights to FF. Fox will continue to operate mostly autonomously, but Marvel will be supporting them with much more with merchandising etc. Both studios will look into possible opportunities for crossovers in the coming years.

Approximately 30% likelihood:

3. No real news or something completely different than either of the above.

In light of the quality thing that you dug up and remembering Marvel was *****ing at Sony after Amazing 2, then to me it's:

50% chance Marvel/Disney got full FF rights back
25% chance some kind of shared deal was reached
25% nothing

I just literally watched that episode last night, and I have to give them credit.

But that's also probably the most expensive thing they did all season and he was only onscreen for a couple minutes total.

AoS had some decent effects for the inhumans which is supposed to look cool. DD, I think cost 2 mil an episode. However, you're right that they couldn't really do FF justice with a TV show series, maybe an origins series, but how much on screen time would the thing, even then? Would be a challenge.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

AoS had some decent effects for the inhumans which is supposed to look cool. DD, I think cost 2 mil an episode. However, you're right that they couldn't really do FF justice with a TV show series, maybe an origins series, but how much on screen time would the thing, even then? Would be a challenge.

What I could imagine being really cool (if done right - and that's always the key) is a two-season Netflix series leading up to the real FF film.

Season one would focus primarily on Doom. We would get to see his parents and Boris and we'd see the tough life they had in Latveria as poor peasants totally at the mercy of the ruling class. We'd see Doom's mother's work in the occult, Mephisto, etc.

Season two would introduce Reed and Ben as they meet up with Doom in college. Throughout the second season, we could see comparisons between Doom and the others. While Doom was locked away in a dark lab trying to find a way to communicate with his mother, Reed and Ben would have bright idyllic college careers with Reed being the celebrated genius and Ben being the football star headed to the air-force. As Doom goes through his accident and then heads to the mountains where he'll forge his armor there would be stark contrasts between Doom's dark misery and drive to rise above it all and Reed and Ben's bright, perfect lives.

Then for the final episodes, we could flash forward several years to when Doom is rising to power in Latveria and Reed is building his rocket with Ben, now a skilled trained test-pilot, on board as pilot. We'd briefly meet Reed's new girlfriend and her teenage brother. Then the final scenes could reverse the contrast between Reed and Doom with Doom finally getting what he wants as we see him complete his takeover of Latveria and the four crashing to earth from their failed attempt to reach the stars. We'd see Ben turned into a monster and Reed feeling awful and responsible for it all.

And then we'd be ready for the first FF film.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

So will the bad Apocalypse reviews make Fox more likely to work with Marvel?

Is it possible that the reason rumors of cooperation have been heating up recently is Fox execs knew it was getting stale?