The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 4

[Angryfantasyfan]

I don't think it far fetched that Marvel could do a Sony-like sharing deal with Fox for the X-Men at some point. But I wouldn't expect it too happen anytime soon.

There isn't the same financial incentive for Marvel to make such a deal with Fox.

 

[Eddie]

There isn't the same financial incentive for Marvel to make such a deal with Fox.

Nonsense. Marvel would see a huge boost in X-Men merchandise, and Fox could keep the cut they currently have to give to Marvel (Marvel got tens of millions of dollars for Deadpool). Marvel found enough of a financial incentive to do Legion with Fox, too.

I'm also chuckling at the idea that Marvel will scale back after Infinity War. They're doing Inhumans and more Spider-Man stuff (in all likelihood), They're bringing in loads of new characters this phase, RDJ is saying he might want to do Iron Man 4 after all, etc. They're not scaling back. There will be an Avengers (or other crossover event) in 2022, give or take a year.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I'm also chuckling at the idea that Marvel will scale back after Infinity War. They're doing Inhumans and more Spider-Man stuff (in all likelihood), They're bringing in loads of new characters this phase, RDJ is saying he might want to do Iron Man 4 after all, etc. They're not scaling back. There will be an Avengers (or other crossover event) in 2022, give or take a year.

If you think about it, with Fox, Sony and Marvel, we've been getting roughly 5 Marvel based movies per year. So if Marvel partners with Fox in a similar way to how they partnered with Sony, they could make 5 films a year without really changing the gross number. Everything would just be better planned and coordinated.

If they can continue keeping the quality up and interconnect all the films, I can imagine a time when every two months there's a new "must-see" Marvel film.

People will be able to go to a film like Civil War and come out of the theater looking forward to the next Marvel film in another 60 days.

In a way, it would be similar to my experience as a kid. I'd pick up the latest FF, Read it, and then spend the next month looking forward to the next issue.

 

[ernesth100]

While Kinberg's comments may've thrown some water on the notion that Marvel got the FF back in exchange for giving away the X-Men TV rights, I'm still optimistic that the FF will find their way into the MCU someday for the reasons others have already outlined. Fox isn't going to make cheap FF films every 7-8 years in perpetuity only to play keep away with Marvel.

i dunno. They made a Deadpool movie on a 50 million budget. And they are pretty selfish.

 

[Angryfantasyfan]

Nonsense. Marvel would see a huge boost in X-Men merchandise, and Fox could keep the cut they currently have to give to Marvel (Marvel got tens of millions of dollars for Deadpool). Marvel found enough of a financial incentive to do Legion with Fox, too.

Why would they produce a film to boost merchandise which has never sold like Spider-Man and they would get less than 100% of the profit from?

Marvel found enough of a financial incentive to do Legion with Fox, too.

Show me one insider or trade that claims that was a Sony-like deal.

 

[SyntaxError]

A little over a week ago (when it was just a few of us because there wasn't any breaking news) we had a discussion about a presumed 'quality clause' in the contract starting on this page: http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=512575&page=16

If there is a quality clause (and I'd be willing to bet there is - we just don't know the exact wording) and Fox tried to make a sequel to Fant4stic, I think lawyers would probably get involved.

That would be a real mess...

Firstly its almost impossible to prove the movie was a stinking pile of **** even though it was. I mean how can you possibly quantify that?

And then they'd have to prove that the movie resulting in significant damages to the IP, which would be near impossible to place solely on the shoulders of FOX because there are so many clogs in the process of releasing a movie.

Don't think a lawsuit like that would ever come to fruition.

 

[Dark Raven]

Why would they produce a film to boost merchandise which has never sold like Spider-Man and they would get less than 100% of the profit from?



Show me one insider or trade that claims that was a Sony-like deal.

Out of the goodness of their hearts, Marvel is planning are to boost FFINO2 as much as they can, as long as they can get a -100% profit.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Firstly its almost impossible to prove the movie was a stinking pile of **** even though it was. I mean how can you possibly quantify that?

Let's start by modifying the theme park clause to how it could appear in the film contract:

Each FANTASTIC FOUR FILM shall be produced and distributed in a first class manner consistent with the highest standards of the film industry. If a FANTASTIC FOUR FILM is produced that is not consistent with that standard all exclusivity and marketing rights acquired by Fox as a result of releasing FANTASTIC FOUR FILMS, as set forth in Section IV below, shall terminate and this Agreement shall thereafter be construed as if the notice of intent to allow production of FANTASTIC FOUR FILMS had not been given by MCA.

Granted, that wording doesn't set, specific criteria, but that's the point. It's a statement that errs on the side of protecting Marvel and their rights and doesn't allow Fox to meet the letter but not intent of the contract. As long as things are going well, Marvel won't go through the unpleasantness of taking Fox to court.

But if Fox seriously tried to make a sequel to a film that lost $100 million, scored 9% on RT (the lowest of any Marvel film ever made), and was universally hated by fans, I couldn't imagine any competent jury that wouldn't find in Marvel's favor if it went that far.

 

[ernesth100]

Imma still give it until 2020 if more news of the sequel moves forward than rumors of Marvel rights. Then I guess it's confirmed. :/

 

[wobbly]

i dunno. They made a Deadpool movie on a 50 million budget. And they are pretty selfish.

Aside from Colossus there wasn't a great deal in Deadpool requiring expensive fx. FF needs a lot more than that to them justice. They tried to go cheap last time and still had to fork out $120mil.

 

[Dark Raven]

And $119 of it was fixing the film and repairing the damage done by Trank's dogs. The rest was the original budget.

 

[wobbly]

And $119 of it was fixing the film and repairing the damage done by Trank's dogs. The rest was the original budget.

Lol t:

Seriously though I'd guess the original budget was around $100mil, but the reshoots cost an extra $19,999,999.

The last dollar was spent on Mara's rug.

 

[Eddie]

Why would they produce a film to boost merchandise which has never sold like Spider-Man and they would get less than 100% of the profit from?



Show me one insider or trade that claims that was a Sony-like deal.

X-Men film merch didn't sell because the film designs are garbage. X-Men merchandise dominated the shelves before the films came along. Disney just isn't going to make X-Men a big priority without some sort of change, so a deal of some sort WOULD boost X-Men merch sales (I guarantee we would have had little Spider-Man merchandise had Sony not dealt the cartoon rights and movie merchandise stuff to Disney). As for Legion, It's been confirmed to be a co-production multiple times. Fox had to go to Marvel to make it happen. It should also be noted that Marvel is NOT producing Spider-Man: Homecoming for the movie toys. They already had the film merchandise rights. Disney put out all of that Amazing Spider-Man merchandise, not Sony. At least two "Spider-Man deals" had already taken place between Marvel and Sony prior to the big one.

 

[BarryAllen]

X-Men film merch didn't sell because the film designs are garbage. X-Men merchandise dominated the shelves before the films came along. Disney just isn't going to make X-Men a big priority without some sort of change, so a deal of some sort WOULD boost X-Men merch sales (I guarantee we would have had little Spider-Man merchandise had Sony not dealt the cartoon rights and movie merchandise stuff to Disney). As for Legion, It's been confirmed to be a co-production multiple times. Fox had to go to Marvel to make it happen. It should also be noted that Marvel is NOT producing Spider-Man: Homecoming for the movie toys. They already had the film merchandise rights. Disney put out all of that Amazing Spider-Man merchandise, not Sony. At least two "Spider-Man deals" had already taken place between Marvel and Sony prior to the big one.

Spider-Man is Marvel's flagship character, and his merchandise outsells every comic character combined, DC or Marvel. Sony was in trouble, and their movies would hurt the Spidey IP which makes so much money for Disney/Marvel. Fantastic Four and X-men are no way on that level. A deal like the Sony/Marvel wouldn't make sense for Fox/Marvel. What does Marvel financially gain off of it? By rebooting Spidey the right way through Civil War, they are essentially going to be able to sell tons more Spidey merch. That's not the same with FF4 or the X-men. Plus why should Fox get to benefit off of the MCU? Marvel spent time building the world and getting audiences invested, and if the FF4 and X-men want to be apart of it, I only want it if they're FULLY back at Marvel.

 

[chamber-music]

The x-men look from the first three movies was very bland. I would be shocked if they made much money off merchandising on those films.

 

[Spiderine]

Spider-Man is Marvel's flagship character, and his merchandise outsells every comic character combined, DC or Marvel. Sony was in trouble, and their movies would hurt the Spidey IP which makes so much money for Disney/Marvel. Fantastic Four and X-men are no way on that level. A deal like the Sony/Marvel wouldn't make sense for Fox/Marvel. What does Marvel financially gain off of it? By rebooting Spidey the right way through Civil War, they are essentially going to be able to sell tons more Spidey merch. That's not the same with FF4 or the X-men. Plus why should Fox get to benefit off of the MCU? Marvel spent time building the world and getting audiences invested, and if the FF4 and X-men want to be apart of it, I only want it if they're FULLY back at Marvel.

This is exactly why FOX won't get that Sony deal. There is no incentive for Marvel to do it on a property that don't move the merchandising needle and has failed miserably at the box office. And FOX has no incentive to make another film like Sony did with all the success Spidey had in the past.

The only deal that Marvel would consider is what Universal currently has with Hulk. Complete access to the character and all supporting characters appearing in the MCU while FOX would retain distribution on a FF solo film should one be made. Marvel pays all production costs while FOX distributes. Also as part of the deal FOX would get cooperation and assistance in boosting its ailing and aging Xmen franchise. Marvel could be setting up its future phases right now with FF characters. They could Hulk the FF and make them appear in other films but main thing is they would have Doom Annihilus Galactus and Surfer.

Otherwise both sides will just sit and let the rights revert in 2022. I would imagine Marvel could do it since they have other characters to move the chains but FOX gains nothing sitting on a dead property.

 

[ARokitLawnChair]

Imagine if they got FF back, they could have an attempt at making a sci-fi horror by adapting Secret Invasion.

 

[Eddie]

Imagine if they got FF back, they could have an attempt at making a sci-fi horror by adapting Secret Invasion.

We don't know the details, but Skrulls are supposedly shared. They could probably do Secret Invasion as is, especially as Marvel never sticks particularly close to any specific comic storyline. Getting FF back would be more about getting the FF, Surfer, and Galactus back than Skrulls (I'd love to see some Skrulls in an MCU FF series or event film, though).

 

[Darth_Spock]

X-Men film merch didn't sell because the film designs are garbage. X-Men merchandise dominated the shelves before the films came along. Disney just isn't going to make X-Men a big priority without some sort of change, so a deal of some sort WOULD boost X-Men merch sales (I guarantee we would have had little Spider-Man merchandise had Sony not dealt the cartoon rights and movie merchandise stuff to Disney). As for Legion, It's been confirmed to be a co-production multiple times. Fox had to go to Marvel to make it happen. It should also be noted that Marvel is NOT producing Spider-Man: Homecoming for the movie toys. They already had the film merchandise rights. Disney put out all of that Amazing Spider-Man merchandise, not Sony. At least two "Spider-Man deals" had already taken place between Marvel and Sony prior to the big one.

Fascinating!

So the logic behind the Sony deal from Marvel's perspective might be "If we (Marvel) are getting $1.3B annually despite Sony's recent lackluster Spidey films then bringing Spider-man on board to the MCU with Free(?) features would be worth the cost of doing business with Sony at this time." "Or at the least we'll prevent Spidey stock from plummeting due to Sony's crappy ideas and motives."



$1.3 billion dollars being the intensive here or at lease maintain or increase it. What would Fox's proposal be with demanding the same deal for Fantastic Four?

 

[FVD]

Thanks. t: Ever since Civil War and that [BLACKOUT]underwater prison[/BLACKOUT] I started thinking could we get Namor in MCU.

I do think Namor should be introduced in a potential F4 Reboot in the MCU.

As for Kinberg, I used to think he was a talented fulla but the more silly remarks he makes the more respect I will lose for that guy. Jeez just shut up about Fan4stic already - it failed, HORRIBLY and you want another chance to make a sequel?! Sorry mate, that Fantasticar has flown so kiss your dream goodbye. And also his plans for the next X-Men film focusing on the Dark Phoenix Saga set in the 90's?! I too hope that film never moves ahead much like Avi Arad's planned Venom movie.

Simon Kinberg is certainly becoming the next David S. Goyer it may seem.

 

[Kanon]

Imagine if they got FF back, they could have an attempt at making a sci-fi horror by adapting Secret Invasion.

Imagine the possibilities of having the skrulls infiltrating the MCU from day 1. Everyone we have seen from Iron Man 1 could be a skrull

 

[ernesth100]

Imagine the possibilities of having the skrulls infiltrating the MCU from day 1. Everyone we have seen from Iron Man 1 could be a skrull

That would....imo...be really dumb and confusing to the GA.

 

[wobbly]

Imagine the possibilities of having the skrulls infiltrating the MCU from day 1. Everyone we have seen from Iron Man 1 could be a skrull

Too similar to Hydra having been hiding behind the scenes until Winter Soldier(imo).

 

[Darth_Spock]

Too similar to Hydra having been hiding behind the scenes until Winter Soldier(imo).

True, I'd prefer a Cree/Skrull War acr. But not until an actual Inhumans film has been implemented, giving them a stake in this as well.

 

[Boom]

Can't wait for Fant4stic 2, with its $70 million budget and none of the original cast members.