The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 6

[R_Hythlodeus]

Lol.

Is there a second image? I can't see it.

just this one

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

just for you, Willie

 

[TheVileOne]

I don't think anyone implied that he was talking about Reed Richards.

I think the discussion being here definitely seems to reinforce that suggestion.

Plus, I think putting the Illuminati in the MCU would be a bad idea as it basically makes all those heroes look like corrupt jerks.

Instead of Illuminati, you'd just have them do a think tank like in Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes. They'd have some science meetings together to come up with new concepts and ideas, not instigating conflicts or deciding on their own to shoot Hulk into space.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Any discussion of "The Illuminati" implies key characters (Xavier, Richards, Black Bolt, Namor) who aren't currently part of the MCU.

Whether Feige wants to address it or not, that's the real issue. Will we ever get those characters (along with characters like Doom and Galactus) in the MCU? I don't particularly care about the Illuminati, but I do care about those characters and their role in defining the Marvel Universe.

Without those characters in the MCU, the MCU isn't the Marvel Universe, and it's Feige's job to make the MCU as close to the Marvel Universe as possible.

So that simple question was a bigger question than it may have appeared, and Feige's dodging of the elephant in the room opened the door for speculation and resulted in people posting and sharing his vague response as encouragement that he might be implying (even though he didn't) we might get what we want.

Unfortunately, we don't have journalists covering these things and representing our interests. The people who cover these things are studio shills and sycophants who are thrilled to just be in the same room as Feige, so they don't push him on these things. A real journalist would have followed up and asked specifically about those characters, but apparently nobody did.

But we shouldn't be that easy.

As much as we may like what Feige is doing, if he's not making efforts to get these key characters into the MCU, he's not doing his job.

This is why it's important for Marvel to actively go after these rights and characters and not simply sit back passively and trust and hope they will come back in time (that didn't work so well last time).

We can take some comfort that Fox almost certainly won't try another film, but Marvel has the responsibility to make sure that doesn't happen.

While most of us like Marvel and hate Fox, we can't give Marvel a free pass on Fant4stic. If they had done what they should have, they would have gotten the rights back in 2013 and prevented that abomination.

And we need to keep the pressure on them to do that now. We can't just sit back and hope Marvel will do the right thing. We need to insist they don't allow Fox to continue to f*** around.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

http://www.thenewestrant.com/2016/10/are-marvel-and-fox-cool-now-three.html

 

[Zarex]

http://www.thenewestrant.com/2016/10/are-marvel-and-fox-cool-now-three.html

But where's the evidence, Willie? Marvel is clearly co-producing TV shows with FOX now because they were tickled pink regarding their work on FFINO and wanted to return the love. Why restrict yourself to making Marvel TV shows on your own when you can split the profits with a chum?

New X-Men comics and merchandise after seven years of disinvestment in the franchise? Well, why wouldn't the Mouse want to strike while the beloved smash hit "X-Men: Apocalypse" is still fresh in the minds of impressionable consumers? Just because Marvel is acting completely differently than what we have seen since Disney bought the company there's no reason to suggest there's something afoot.

Until I see signed affidavits from all involved parties I will refuse to believe what is obvious to everyone that's actually paying attention.

 

[Docker2.0]

But where's the evidence, Willie? Marvel is clearly co-producing TV shows with FOX now because they were tickled pink regarding their work on FFINO and wanted to return the love. Why restrict yourself to making Marvel TV shows on your own when you can split the profits with a chum?

New X-Men comics and merchandise after seven years of disinvestment in the franchise? Well, why wouldn't the Mouse want to strike while the beloved smash hit "X-Men: Apocalypse" is still fresh in the minds of impressionable consumers? Just because Marvel is acting completely differently than what we have seen since Disney bought the company there's no reason to suggest there's something afoot.

Until I see signed affidavits from all involved parties I will refuse to believe what is obvious to everyone that's actually paying attention.

I understood the sarcasm. Good one! Let's see if he did.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I almost didn't share it because I thought we all pretty much knew those things were going on . . . but I didn't want TheVileOne to get bored.

 

[wobbly]

This is why it's important for Marvel to actively go after these rights and characters and not simply sit back passively and trust and hope they will come back in time (that didn't work so well last time).

We can take some comfort that Fox almost certainly won't try another film, but Marvel has the responsibility to make sure that doesn't happen.

In fairness to Marvel I think they have been as active as they could be in trying to get rights back whenever it was possible (the contracts themselves are iron-clad, so no legal loopholes to exploit, they are stuck with them).

For example, we know they tried to get Galactus & the Surfer in exchange for a DD extension: DD's rights were nearing the deadline, Fox were leaving it late to push ahead, so Marvel did try to use that opportunity and offered them some breathing room for DD. This would however have left Fox's FF without one of their greatest villains. Fox declined (perhaps realising what that meant for the FF) and probably thought they could rush in their DD reboot without having to give up anything. They were caught out on pulling a last minute job when the Director bailed and they just ran out of time. DD's subsequent Netfix success must have been somewhat galling for them.

Disney have also starved support for Fox held characters by with holding movie related merchandise, and removing characters from art for other merchandise that included them originally. They have also been marginalising them more in the books (The Inhumans were being given a big push in the books, with mutants facing a mass culling, and FF are still disbanded as things stand).

They also Played Sony perfectly with the revised deal when TASM came out, giving Sony all the rope required to hang themselves for that Franchise, whilst earning more from the movie merch than Sony could with the movies.

The problem with Fox is (or was...) no-one there wanted to make a deal at all so it was a stand off: They'd hang on to the rights no matter what. That thinking led to the costly mistake that was FFINO, so perhaps wiser heads are now looking at the situation, especially with the X-Men flicks not exactly hitting home runs for them atm, and they are now more open to mutually beneficial options. The TV show co-operation is the first most obvious sign the 'cold war' had finally thawed.

Basically, I would be surprised, and very annoyed, if Marvel have not/do not use the obvious opportunity open to them now to get the first family home. The FF's only worth to Fox now is what they can get from Marvel in exchange.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

In fairness to Marvel I think they have been as active as they could be in trying to get rights back whenever it was possible (the contracts themselves are iron-clad, so no legal loopholes to exploit, they are stuck with them).

For example, we know they tried to get Galactus & the Surfer in exchange for a DD extension: DD's rights were nearing the deadline, Fox were leaving it late to push ahead, so Marvel did try to use that opportunity and offered them some breathing room for DD. This would however have left Fox's FF without one of their greatest villains. Fox declined (perhaps realising what that meant for the FF) and probably thought they could rush in their DD reboot without having to give up anything. They were caught out on pulling a last minute job when the Director bailed and they just ran out of time. DD's subsequent Netfix success must have been somewhat galling for them.

Disney have also starved support for Fox held characters by with holding movie related merchandise, and removing characters from art for other merchandise that included them originally. They have also been marginalising them more in the books (The Inhumans were being given a big push in the books, with mutants facing a mass culling, and FF are still disbanded as things stand).

They also Played Sony perfectly with the revised deal when TASM came out, giving Sony all the rope required to hang themselves for that Franchise, whilst earning more from the movie merch than Sony could with the movies.

The problem with Fox is (or was...) no-one there wanted to make a deal at all so it was a stand off: They'd hang on to the rights no matter what. That thinking led to the costly mistake that was FFINO, so perhaps wiser heads are now looking at the situation, especially with the X-Men flicks not exactly hitting home runs for them atm, and they are now more open to mutually beneficial options. The TV show co-operation is the first most obvious sign the 'cold war' had finally thawed.

Basically, I would be surprised, and very annoyed, if Marvel have not/do not use the obvious opportunity open to them now to get the first family home. The FF's only worth to Fox now is what they can get from Marvel in exchange.

I don't have anything solid to go on, but knowing Ike Perlmutter, and how cheap he is and how he (reportedly) reacted after they failed to get the rights, and how reluctant Fox seemed to be to commit to actually making an FF film and how cheap they went when they did (and also based on some grumblings I've seen reported), I suspect the studios were into some heavy negotiation in late 2013 and maybe into early 2014, but they couldn't come to an agreement.

Now maybe if we knew the numbers (and other details - it may have included some X-Men merchandising) they were talking about, we'd agree that Fox was asking too much.

But I suspect Marvel was betting that they wouldn't actually make a film (if the negotiations did go into 2014, they would have been getting dangerously close to their deadline), and Perlmutter was cheap, so they weren't willing to pay what (in hindsight) may have been a very reasonable price.

Bottom line for me is my interest is in a good FF film. I don't work for Marvel and I'm not trying to maximize value for them.

If the rights are on the table right now and available for a price, I want Marvel to pay that price. Maybe they'll get it for nothing if they wait . . . maybe Fox will make another film. If Marvel waits them out and saves a few bucks, that doesn't do anything for me. I want them to lock down those rights. If they don't do what it takes to make that happen, they're letting me down.

It's up to Marvel, not Fox. Fox doesn't give a damn about the FF. Marvel should care enough to do something. And if they don't, maybe they don't deserve the respect I've generally given them up until this point.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Hopefully none of that is even an issue because they've already come to an agreement. But until we hear anything official, I have to assume the bastards at Fox still have their nasty little claws in the FF.

 

[Snaaaaake!]

I'm just glad we have TheVileOne here to set us all straight...

Wait, you actually read that?

 

[Duker Jay]

I got halfway through the first sentence.

 

[WeaponXCII]

Slightly off-topic, but apparently Tim Miller is out for Deadpool 2. Hopefully this leads to something good....

 

[jaymes_e06]

I don't have anything solid to go on, but knowing Ike Perlmutter, and how cheap he is and how he (reportedly) reacted after they failed to get the rights, and how reluctant Fox seemed to be to commit to actually making an FF film and how cheap they went when they did (and also based on some grumblings I've seen reported), I suspect the studios were into some heavy negotiation in late 2013 and maybe into early 2014, but they couldn't come to an agreement.

Now maybe if we knew the numbers (and other details - it may have included some X-Men merchandising) they were talking about, we'd agree that Fox was asking too much.

But I suspect Marvel was betting that they wouldn't actually make a film (if the negotiations did go into 2014, they would have been getting dangerously close to their deadline), and Perlmutter was cheap, so they weren't willing to pay what (in hindsight) may have been a very reasonable price.

Bottom line for me is my interest is in a good FF film. I don't work for Marvel and I'm not trying to maximize value for them.

If the rights are on the table right now and available for a price, I want Marvel to pay that price. Maybe they'll get it for nothing if they wait . . . maybe Fox will make another film. If Marvel waits them out and saves a few bucks, that doesn't do anything for me. I want them to lock down those rights. If they don't do what it takes to make that happen, they're letting me down.

It's up to Marvel, not Fox. Fox doesn't give a damn about the FF. Marvel should care enough to do something. And if they don't, maybe they don't deserve the respect I've generally given them up until this point.

Yeah we need to start holding Marvel somewhat accountable for not acting before the bastardization of their characters that was FFINO could have been done.

I hope that they make a deal soon because right now we're just sitting here twiddling our thumbs waiting for either to make a move for better or worse.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Slightly off-topic, but apparently Tim Miller is out for Deadpool 2. Hopefully this leads to something good....

Whoa! I hadn't seen that but just did some quick research. That seemed like the closest thing to a sure-thing Fox had. I guess the question now is was Reynolds or Miller more responsible for how well the first one worked and will the be able to repeat without Miller?

 

[NotNickFury]

Slightly off-topic, but apparently Tim Miller is out for Deadpool 2. Hopefully this leads to something good....

You're not celebrating a movie losing its director, are you? Especially given what Miller did for the film. I'm sure whoever the replacement is will do a job so long as the screenwriters and Reynolds still have input.

Heck, I like the job Peyton Reed did on Ant-Man, but certainly doesn't mean that Edgar Wright being removed was a good thing.

 

[Dark Raven]

You're not celebrating a movie losing its director, are you? Especially given what Miller did for the film. I'm sure whoever the replacement is will do a job so long as the screenwriters and Reynolds still have input.

Heck, I like the job Peyton Reed did on Ant-Man, but certainly doesn't mean that Edgar Wright being removed was a good thing.

Well, it was a good thing in a way, because we'd still be waiting on Ant-Man all this time. He certainly wouldn't have shown up in Civil War.

 

[NotNickFury]

Though, to be fair, if you removed Ant Man from Civil War, it wouldn't have impacted the film at all.

 

[Snaaaaake!]

Whoa! I hadn't seen that but just did some quick research. That seemed like the closest thing to a sure-thing Fox had. I guess the question now is was Reynolds or Miller more responsible for how well the first one worked and will the be able to repeat without Miller?

Good question....

How was Ryan Reynolds input in Green Lantern, RIPD, Selfless, The Change up and Criminal. The last few films before and after Deadpool that didn't have Tim Miller directing.....

Yeah, all Rotten reviews and weak box office results.

Think I'll pass on this sequel.

 

[Dark Raven]

Though, to be fair, if you removed Ant Man from Civil War, it wouldn't have impacted the film at all.

But my point is that we would still not have Ant-Man in the MCU if Wright were still attached. He'd still be about to finish his latest draft or working on his storyboards or whatever usually delays him.

 

[NotNickFury]

Good question....

How was Ryan Reynolds input in Green Lantern, RIPD, Selfless, The Change up and Criminal. The last few films before and after Deadpool that didn't have Tim Miller directing.....

Yeah, all Rotten reviews and weak box results.

Think I'll pass on this sequel.

So is that list just overlooking good films Reynolds was in like Buried, which was only a year before Green Lantern?

 

[Snaaaaake!]

So is that list just overlooking good films Reynolds was in like Buried, which was only a year before Green Lantern?

Oh I'm sorry 1 good film every 6 years. Zero of which were any of the CBM's or action films he stared in prior to DP.

But I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[WeaponXCII]

Whoa! I hadn't seen that but just did some quick research. That seemed like the closest thing to a sure-thing Fox had. I guess the question now is was Reynolds or Miller more responsible for how well the first one worked and will the be able to repeat without Miller?

Good question. I know they're both immense fans of the source material, but I might be more inclined to say Miller was more responsible for its success. Just a hunch, though.

You're not celebrating a movie losing its director, are you? Especially given what Miller did for the film. I'm sure whoever the replacement is will do a job so long as the screenwriters and Reynolds still have input.

Heck, I like the job Peyton Reed did on Ant-Man, but certainly doesn't mean that Edgar Wright being removed was a good thing.

No, I'm celebrating Fox's setback. I'm celebrating the fact that this gives me a sliver more of hope, however small, that the rights can revert back to Marvel (I know that the Deadpool and X-Men rights are largely separate, but keep in mind Fox is counting on Deadpool to move the franchise forward, so....). Context, my friend!

 

[wobbly]

Yeah we need to start holding Marvel somewhat accountable for not acting before the bastardization of their characters that was FFINO could have been done.

Serious question is: What could they have done? Legally, nothing. Disney's lawyers are sharks and if there was any possible loophole in the contracts they'd have found it by now.

That only leaves money. Perhaps an insane cash sum might have done the trick, but then it would be hard to justify throwing cash at Fox for something they didn't need at that time, and where they stood a chance of getting back for nothing had Fox sat back and realised that their FF reboot was a ###king disaster in the making.

I hope that they make a deal soon because right now we're just sitting here twiddling our thumbs waiting for either to make a move for better or worse.

The only good thing about FFINO is it does leave Disney in a stronger bargaining position now (the FF brand is toxic under Fox), so they could get the FF back in time for Phase IV, which would be a little poetic.

I would hope they do throw Fox a bone here and dig into their deep pockets for a reasonable offer, to get the FF secured sooner rather than later. Would rather not see this drag out again to the last minute like the FFINO fiasco.