The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 7

[GoblinScrier]

I would prefer a personal phone call from Mr. Feige.

But in all seriousness, #7 is the way to go. The ending of the 2019 Avengers film has the potential to be a bit of a bummer with heroes hanging up the spandex, seriously wounded and perhaps even dead. What better way to start off Phase 4 than showing an appearance of Doom, a flash of the Surfer, a glimpse of Galactus or the FF ship making their to the present day MCU? Rather than having fans leaving the theaters thinking that 2008-2019 was a good run, you'd have them excited about what's to come.

Seeing Doom as the mid-credit sequence would be one of those moments where my friends would need to keep a medic on hand to revive me after I collapse with a smile on my face...

 

[Patchwork Man]

Mikkelsen is great in whatever he is in...the problem is, Marvel gets a hold of him and makes a villain but not THE villain...he was born to be Victor Von Doom and I wish they could have reserved his talents for that role.

It could still happen. Prosthetics would make him look different, and he'd be under the mask 95% of the time.

 

[Kanon]

I would prefer a personal phone call from Mr. Feige.

But in all seriousness, #7 is the way to go. The ending of the 2019 Avengers film has the potential to be a bit of a bummer with heroes hanging up the spandex, seriously wounded and perhaps even dead. What better way to start off Phase 4 than showing an appearance of Doom, a flash of the Surfer, a glimpse of Galactus or the FF ship making their to the present day MCU? Rather than having fans leaving the theaters thinking that 2008-2019 was a good run, you'd have them excited about what's to come.

I would LOVE to have heroes die or dissapear or whatever at the end of Infinity War, and then Doom appearing self-proclaimed as the new champion of the world (think of the Thunderbolts after Onslaught)

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Let's say the FF live action movie rights reverted back to Marvel, how would you like to receive this news?

1) At a Comic Con/Disney D23?
2) At a Marvel press event (like the one they held to announce Phase 3 movies)?
3) At the announcement of Phase 4 movies?
4) Random announcement out of nowhere, like the Marvel/Sony deal?
5) In an interview with Feige/Quesada/some other Marvel/Disney exec?
6) The characters randomly appearing in a movie? i.e. Johnny Storm appearing in Spiderman Homecoming/Homecoming 2
7) The characters randomly appearing in a mid credit/post credit scene? i.e. Doctor Doom laughing as the end credit scene of Infinity War

I go back and forth on event or character appearing in the movie unexpectedly, but I think I would prefer it be announced in an event, just for the hype that it would generate. Something akin to marvel/sony deal or in an interview would be the lamest ones IMO.

I'd like a surprise - either a flash of production art at the end of a presentation or a character either in a film or after credits, but I think all of those are unlikely and when it happens, the announcement will probably be sort of dry.

There are a couple logistical problems with putting a character in a film without any warning:

1. Most people wouldn't get it and it might be confusing for some who sort of get it.

2. It would be hard to keep something like that secret since there would be a lot of people involved. It would be likely to leak at some point and then the surprise would be lost.

I think we'll most likely get a press release or maybe an announcement at an event (if the timing works out).

 

[Zarex]

Marvel tried to keep the Sam Jackson post credit scene in Iron Man hush-hush, but it was spoilt a year early by AICN.

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/33090.

There's no question an FF post credit appearance in Infinity War or the 2019 Avengers film will be spoiled long before it ends up in theaters. Regardless, it would still be a wonderful way to introduce the team.

 

[Kanon]

Marvel tried to keep the Sam Jackson post credit scene in Iron Man hush-hush, but it was spoilt a year early by AICN.

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/33090.

There's no question an FF post credit appearance in Infinity War or the 2019 Avengers film will be spoiled long before it ends up in theaters. Regardless, it would still be a wonderful way to introduce the team.

I can't remember Thanos at the end of Avengers, if it was spoiled or not...

 

[Zarex]

I think Marvel did better with that one, but it helped that they had a no-name (sorry Mr. Poitier!) rather than a movie star in the costume. If the FF does show up in the 2019 Avengers film there's a good chance it will either be a CGI character or a partially obscured stand in.

 

[Dark Raven]

The best way to fool everyone is to hold a big fancy dress costume with actors coming as other characters they don't normally play. If Chris Evans is dressed up as Doom and so is Chris Pratt, and both costumes are slightly different, then people will just think they're dressing up.

 

[Xeno]

The sharpest drop is almost pure FF - if you look at the exact dates, the sharpest drop starts precisely when the reviews started coming out and the S&P was flat at that point.

The S&P did drop at the second drop, so that was a one-two punch to Fox when other stocks didn't get the first punch. And the reason it has stayed depressed is their general poor profits - but Murdoch singled out the FF as a major reason the year was a let-down.

I know that I'm late to this party but the people who have suggested that Fant4stic didn't play a major role in Fox's earnings drop are ignoring the fact that Rupert Murdock himself laid the blame at the doomed reboot's feet. He told shareholders that F4's failure had a negative impact on the company's bottom line.

http://www.thewrap.com/fantastic-four-21st-century-fox-q1-earnings-revenue-cable-rupert-murdoch/

"... Our quarterly results also reflect the expected impact of challenging comparisons for our film studio due to the timing of key releases, as well as the poor performance of ‘The Fantastic Four,'” he stated.

Old Man Murdock is a notorious cheapskate who hates nothing more than losing money. The FF has drained money out of his coffers three times in a row. Now that Murdock has set his sons at each others' throats as they jockey for his approval, it's a virtual certainty that Fox won't be throwing away any more money on that franchise. Iceman would have a better chance staying frosty in hell than a producer would have of getting Fant4stic 4 greenlit.

 

[wobbly]

I can't remember Thanos at the end of Avengers, if it was spoiled or not...

It was rumoured, but I don't think it was confirmed until Avengers was released.

 

[TheVileOne]

It was rumoured, but I don't think it was confirmed until Avengers was released.

It was spoiled ahead of the release. Not that far ahead though.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

first photograph of ike perlmutter in 35 years. he is real, you guys.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/reclusive-marvel-ceo-ike-perlmutter-photographed-public-959632

 

[Flint Marko]

That's kind of cool. Of course he's a Trump guy

 

[doink]

That's kind of cool. Of course he's a Trump guy

They're both massive doinks so of course...

I'm really hoping he'll get the rest of Marvel taken away from him someday. Especially the TV division.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

first photograph of ike perlmutter in 35 years. he is real, you guys.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/reclusive-marvel-ceo-ike-perlmutter-photographed-public-959632

How can somebody so... weird have such an important position?

I have a feeling Marvel might have gotten the rights back and Fant4stic might have never happened if Perlmutter hadn't been there.

 

[TheVileOne]

How can somebody so... weird have such an important position?

I have a feeling Marvel might have gotten the rights back and Fant4stic might have never happened if Perlmutter hadn't been there.

And you know this how exactly?

 

[Zarex]

And you know this how exactly?

Do you not understand the difference between having a feeling and knowing something?

 

[TheVileOne]

Do you not understand the difference between having a feeling and knowing something?

I think trying to blame Fant4stic on Ike Perlmutter like it was his fault is some kind of ridiculousness.

I get that Ike Perlmutter is a polarizing figure and he's been connected to a lot of negative issues associated with Marvel Studios. But let's also be honest. Fant4stic wasn't his fault.

I know a lot of people also like to paint Michael Eisner as some kind of bad guy, but he also did a lot of good at Disney as well. Just for example, I remember a story from Bill Farmer, the voice of Goofy who said that Jeffrey Katzenberg was trying to have his way on the Goofy Movie and getting him to record Goofy's line in a more realistic fashion instead of letting him actually voice Goofy the way he'd been doing for years as you know Goofy. According to Farmer, Eisner was the one who had to step in and get Katzenberg to knock that off.

My point is, corporate heads are sometimes the bad guys, but they aren't always dastardly villains with twirly mustaches out to destroy all the things you love and care about.

I think Feige's issue was fair. Feige had done right by Marvel for a long time and he's architect of the MCU. He's earned some control and less micro-managing in attempting to bring about this MCU vision. And if that means more female led movies or what have you so be it. The public is definitely hungry for that as well.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

And you know this how exactly?

I said I had a "feeling", I didn't say I "knew" anything.

And my logic is very simple: Perlmutter is known for his cheapness. Fox was reluctant to make another FF film (as evidenced by their continued changing of dates, low budget and inexperienced director - hire Ridley Scott, give him a $200 million budget and you're serious about making an FF film. Hire Josh Trank, give him $100 million to make a body horror film, constantly drag your feet and push back production every step of the way, and you're probably not fully committed ). Fox likely would have accepted a reasonable offer from Marvel in 2013, but no deal happened and the result was Fant4stic.

By accounts and logic, Perlmutter was the one primarily responsible for the negotiations on Marvel's side and since no deal happened, it's likely he didn't make a reasonable offer (or ask his bosses for permission to make a reasonable offer) and/or didn't negotiate as well as possible.

Therefore, I think my feeling that if someone else had been in that seat a deal might have happened is perfectly justified.

Where did I call him a "dastardly villain with twirly mustache out to destroy all the things I love and care about"? I was just saying someone else might have been able to get the deal done. Perlmutter was a variable. Change a variable and a different outcome might have occurred. A deal didn't happen on Perlmutter's watch. That's a simple, irrefutable fact.

My comment was simple, reasonable and rational. Your response was hyperbolic and didn't address what I actually posted.

 

[TheVileOne]

I said I had a "feeling", I didn't say I "knew" anything.

And my logic is very simple: Perlmutter is known for his cheapness. Fox was reluctant to make another FF film (as evidenced by their continued changing of dates, low budget and inexperienced director - hire Ridley Scott, give him a $200 million budget and you're serious about making an FF film. Hire Josh Trank, give him $100 million to make a body horror film, constantly drag your feet and push back production every step of the way, and you're probably not fully committed ). Fox likely would have accepted a reasonable offer from Marvel in 2013, but no deal happened and the result was Fant4stic.

That's not Marvel or Fantastic Four's fault.

By accounts and logic, Perlmutter was the one primarily responsible for the negotiations on Marvel's side and since no deal happened, it's likely he didn't make a reasonable offer (or ask his bosses for permission to make a reasonable offer) and/or didn't negotiate as well as possible.

Therefore, I think my feeling that if someone else had been in that seat a deal might have happened is perfectly justified.

Where's the evidence of these accounts?

Where did I call him a "dastardly villain with twirly mustache out to destroy all the things I love and care about"? I was just saying someone else might have been able to get the deal done. Perlmutter was a variable. Change a variable and a different outcome might have occurred. A deal didn't happen on Perlmutter's watch. That's a simple, irrefutable fact.

My comment was simple, reasonable and rational. Your response was hyperbolic and didn't address what I actually posted.

You are painting him that way as the one responsible for Fant4stic.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

That's not Marvel or Fantastic Four's fault.

Read what I said again:

I have a feeling Marvel might have gotten the rights back and Fant4stic might have never happened if Perlmutter hadn't been there.

What in that statement implies it's Marvel or Fantastic Four's fault? I don't even understand your comment.

Where's the evidence of these accounts?

http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/19/10790450/marvel-secret-wars-comics-heroes-goodbye-fantastic-four

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/10...-645-as-january-kicks-off-fantastic-fourever/

http://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/...oney-to-donald-trump-because-of-course-he-did

You are painting him that way as the one responsible for Fant4stic.

Again, let's look at my actual words as opposed to your interpretation of them:

I have a feeling Marvel might have gotten the rights back and Fant4stic might have never happened if Perlmutter hadn't been there.

As long as you just make things up, you can type and type and type as long as you want. If you stick to the facts, rather than creating straw-men, what I actually said was pretty simple, straight-forward and difficult to dispute.

Do YOU have any evidence to suggest Perlmutter did everything he could to make a deal happen in 2013 and any way to say that somebody else couldn't have done a better job?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Let's break this down:

Fact 1: In the years preceding Fant4stic, no deal was made between Fox and Marvel to give Marvel full or partial control of the Fantastic Four rights.

Fact 2: In the years preceding Fant4stic, Ike Perlmutter was CEO of Marvel Entertainment.

Subjective statement: I have a feeling Marvel might have gotten the rights back and Fant4stic might have never happened if Perlmutter hadn't been there.

I have not seen any evidence that even comes close to making me change my opinion on that. But I am open-minded and very interested in discussing real reasons why that presumption might not be valid. If you (TheVileOne) or anyone else has any additional information or reasons to believe Perlmutter was the best person to get the FF rights back prior to Fant4stic please post them so we can discuss.


Saying my subjective statement is subjective or implying I think Ike Perlmutter is the devil doesn't really add much to the discussion. It just forces me to address those comments and go around in circles rather than talking about the actual topic.

 

[Dark Raven]

Let's break this down:

Fact 1: In the years preceding Fant4stic, no deal was made between Fox and Marvel to give Marvel full or partial control of the Fantastic Four rights.

Fact 2: In the years preceding Fant4stic, Ike Perlmutter was CEO of Marvel Entertainment.

Subjective statement: I have a feeling Marvel might have gotten the rights back and Fant4stic might have never happened if Perlmutter hadn't been there.

I have not seen any evidence that even comes close to making me change my opinion on that. But I am open-minded and very interested in discussing real reasons why that presumption might not be valid. If you (TheVileOne) or anyone else has any additional information or reasons to believe Perlmutter was the best person to get the FF rights back prior to Fant4stic please post them so we can discuss.


Saying my subjective statement is subjective or implying I think Ike Perlmutter is the devil doesn't really add much to the discussion. It just forces me to address those comments and go around in circles rather than talking about the actual topic.

And you know this how exactly?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

And you know this how exactly?

 

[TheVileOne]

http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/19/10790450/marvel-secret-wars-comics-heroes-goodbye-fantastic-four

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/10...-645-as-january-kicks-off-fantastic-fourever/

http://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/...oney-to-donald-trump-because-of-course-he-did

There's nothing in there that's actually substantial or qualitative. The Verge article's sources are just other websites that don't even really spell out what happened in negotiations between Fox and Perlmutter. It's all just rumors and hearsay. There's no sufficient evidence that Fant4stic was his fault.

As long as you just make things up, you can type and type and type as long as you want. If you stick to the facts, rather than creating straw-men, what I actually said was pretty simple, straight-forward and difficult to dispute.

Do YOU have any evidence to suggest Perlmutter did everything he could to make a deal happen in 2013 and any way to say that somebody else couldn't have done a better job?

No, but that's not a point I'm trying to prove either.

As for making things up, this thread has been doing it since we started. People were convinced the ball was going to drop and Fantastic Four with Marvel was all set at Comic-Con didn't happen. That magical countdown meter? It had nothing to do with Fantastic Four either.