The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 8

[Zarex]

I can't wait till the next Fantastic Four Fox movie. Rights are not going anywhere. You have been at this for two years and It's not happening. Fox would be nuts to give up the rights. That they bought fair and square. Saved Marvel from Bankruptcy. So they won't. Marvel isn't entitled. Fox isn't in the wrong for keeping the rights. No obligation to sell them back!

Kinberg is amazing. I'm glad he's still in the fold.

FOX didn't save Marvel from bankruptcy. The company filed for bankruptcy protection in 1996. Are these Alternative Facts?

We've been at this for two years, and FOX is no closer to crapping out a follow up to FFINO. And Rupert Murdoch is not going to eat another eight figure loss on a franchise he publicly denounced to his shareholders. Both of you fellas that are looking forward to another awful FOX FF film are going to be very disappointed. The franchise is D-U-N at FOX.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I get we all take all this stuff seriously, and we want good movies based on our favorite material. At the same time, these are still human beings. I don't think so seriously that I want to actually hurt other people and want their careers and livelihood destroyed.

I mean Kinberg did help work on and shepherd Star Wars Rebels. I'm not saying I like everything he's done at Fox with X-Men, Fantastic Four, etc. I'm not the biggest Kinberg fan, but I don't want to punch him in the face.

As far as right now, I mean I usually take very little the bigwigs say at face value. And yeah with Kinberg's track record, I get not really trusting him ever. But look at these answers right now from Kinberg. They are the same as they were from last year and the year before. It's just public spin at this point, and you can't really take it seriously. So not right now or I guess even further back where Fantastic Four is concerned.

I think he helped out with TFA as well. He seems to have some kind of standing role within Lucasfilm.

 

[ADollarADay]

I can't wait till the next Fantastic Four Fox movie. Rights are not going anywhere. You have been at this for two years and It's not happening. Fox would be nuts to give up the rights. That they bought fair and square. Saved Marvel from Bankruptcy. So they won't. Marvel isn't entitled. Fox isn't in the wrong for keeping the rights. No obligation to sell them back!

Kinberg is amazing. I'm glad he's still in the fold.

I'm not sure if this is a sarcastic post or not, so I won't rebut it, but Fox didn't save marvel from bankruptcy because.....Marvel did file for bankruptcy.

 

[GeckoMoria]

Fox is the most inconsistent cmb studio barring WB. They don't deserve the 4 and they have drove themt o the ground more brutally than they did DD, one of my favourite heroes. Fox doesn't deserve any Marvel property except the X-men and i'm not even sure they deserve them as well.

You can lick Kinberg's boots as much as you want but the rights will revert. DD reverted and it didn't have nowhere near the losses Fan4stic had.

 

[DalekbusterFitz]

When Simon said "I have no idea", I think he was talking about The Thing's gender in Fant4stic.

Definitely. That Thing has no penis.

I can't wait till the next Fantastic Four Fox movie. Rights are not going anywhere. You have been at this for two years and It's not happening. Fox would be nuts to give up the rights. That they bought fair and square. Saved Marvel from Bankruptcy. So they won't. Marvel isn't entitled. Fox isn't in the wrong for keeping the rights. No obligation to sell them back!

Kinberg is amazing. I'm glad he's still in the fold.

Sarcasm?

 

[Orba]

I can't wait till the next Fantastic Four Fox movie. Rights are not going anywhere. You have been at this for two years and It's not happening. Fox would be nuts to give up the rights. That they bought fair and square. Saved Marvel from Bankruptcy. So they won't. Marvel isn't entitled. Fox isn't in the wrong for keeping the rights. No obligation to sell them back!

Kinberg is amazing. I'm glad he's still in the fold.

Every single Fantastic Four film has made less than the previous one, the last made a loss of at least $80million, so why would Fox be "nuts to give up the rights"? The last film was even singled out by the Fox Chairman as a reason for the company's poor financial performance.

Also Fox never bought the anything, they don't own the Fantastic Four rights, they just hold a lease on them, and if they fail to abide by the terms of that lease the rights will revert back to Marvel. If Fox don't use the rights within a set number of years those rights will return to Marvel without a cent being exchanged, which is what happened with the Daredevil rights. As you said Fox have no obligation to do a deal with Marvel, but right now their choices are to make another film which will very likely loose them even more money, do nothing and let the rights revert for free, or do a deal with Marvel and try to get something in return for the early reversion of the rights.

And as others mentioned, Fox didn't save Marvel from bankruptcy as Marvel did go bankrupt in the 90s.

 

[DalekbusterFitz]

do a deal with Marvel and try to get something in return for the early reversion of the rights.
.

I could see them doing this, but with a similar deal to Sony's with Marvel. Marvel get the Fantastic Four back and has creative control, but all money goes to Fox.

 

[First Avenger]

Guys don't feed SAUspartan's nonsense trolling.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I get we all take all this stuff seriously, and we want good movies based on our favorite material. At the same time, these are still human beings. I don't think so seriously that I want to actually hurt other people and want their careers and livelihood destroyed.

I mean Kinberg did help work on and shepherd Star Wars Rebels. I'm not saying I like everything he's done at Fox with X-Men, Fantastic Four, etc. I'm not the biggest Kinberg fan, but I don't want to punch him in the face.

As far as right now, I mean I usually take very little the bigwigs say at face value. And yeah with Kinberg's track record, I get not really trusting him ever. But look at these answers right now from Kinberg. They are the same as they were from last year and the year before. It's just public spin at this point, and you can't really take it seriously. So not right now or I guess even further back where Fantastic Four is concerned.

Kinberg may be a decent producer, but his writing resume' is really pretty awful. And with his only directing experience being Fant4stic... well that tells you something about how he might be as a writer/director.

But being in over-your-head doesn't make someone a bad person. Tim Story was in over-his-head, but while I wasn't pleased with what he did, I did feel like he was a good guy who was doing his best.

But Simon Kinberg comes off very differently than Tim Story in interviews. Throughout production of Fant4stic, Kinberg projected an arrogance and condescension. He never took the comic books seriously and he never took the fans seriously because, seemingly, he felt he was smarter than the comic book writers and smarter than the fans.

He didn't listen to fans when they expressed concerns, but rather brushed those concerns off as unimportant.

If I sat down with him and had a beer with him, I'm sure I'd come away thinking he was an okay guy.

But people who think they're better than other people rub me the wrong way and in the context of the communication we have seen between him and FF fans, there's a clear sense that he thinks he's better than FF fans and they're beneath his notice.

There's a good chance that he just doesn't communicate well and that's a bigger factor than him being a jerk, but based on all the information I have to go on, Tim Story seems like a good guy and Simon Kinberg seems like kind of a jerk.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

I get we all take all this stuff seriously, and we want good movies based on our favorite material. At the same time, these are still human beings. I don't think so seriously that I want to actually hurt other people and want their careers and livelihood destroyed.

Right if someone said that about a MCU Producer it would get ugly

Kinberg is amazing. I'm glad he's still in the fold.

Really like his plans for X-Universe hopefully he helps negotiate a trade of Star Wars & FF so X-MEN can get some good stuff outside of movies

FOX didn't save Marvel from bankruptcy. The company filed for bankruptcy protection in 1996. Are these Alternative Facts?

X-MEN TAS helped Marvel out some i think though

That show is the reason FoX Bought the Film IP rights

 

[wobbly]

I could see them doing this, but with a similar deal to Sony's with Marvel. Marvel get the Fantastic Four back and has creative control, but all money goes to Fox.

Can't see Fox being given that same deal. Spider-Man is a proven money spinner in movies and the highest grossing superhero in merchandising there is (way ahead of Batman, Superman etc and Marvel gets all of those profits) so it made sense for Disney to do what they could to integrate him into their MCU sooner rather than later. Sony gave them that chance when TASM2 cost them big time.

The FF though, sad to say, doesn't come close to Spider-man (or X-Men for that matter), either in money from movies or merch. So getting them back for use in the MCU, but Fox still hold the rights so they make Fox a ton of free cash for every movie, just does not seem like good business to me at all.

Closest I could see to this is them offering Fox a decent % of the net profits for the first MCU FF film and it's tie in merch, then that's it: All future ties severed once and for all.

They bought out Paramount's distribution deal in similar fashion iirc.

 

[DalekbusterFitz]

Can't see Fox being given that same deal. Spider-Man is a proven money spinner in movies and the highest grossing superhero in merchandising there is (way ahead of Batman, Superman etc and Marvel gets all of those profits) so it made sense for Disney to do what they could to integrate him into their MCU sooner rather than later. Sony gave them that chance when TASM2 cost them big time.

The FF though, sad to say, doesn't come close to Spider-man (or X-Men for that matter), either in money from movies or merch. So getting them back for use in the MCU, but Fox still hold the rights so they make Fox a ton of free cash for every movie, just does not seem like good business to me at all.

Closest I could see to this is them offering Fox a decent % of the net profits for the first MCU FF film and it's tie in merch, then that's it: All future ties severed once and for all.

They bought out Paramount's distribution deal in similar fashion iirc.

Fair point. A Sony-style deal could be a worse case scenario though. Even if the merchandising isn't as big as with Spider-Man and Fox were to get all profits, it would still give the MCU a hefty amount of publicity to have the Fantastic Four rights return.

 

[Dasher10]

If FoX could get Ka-Zar, Shana, Moon-Boy, Devil Dinosaur, & The Savage Land I think that'd be a good trade.

I thought that Marvel already owned the Savage Land?

I'd rather see a trade that involves merging universes for the FF. Do an event film that merges universes across time and space and manages to still make sense at the end of it.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

I thought that Marvel already owned the Savage Land?

I'd rather see a trade that involves merging universes for the FF. Do an event film that merges universes across time and space and manages to still make sense at the end of it.

I dont think so even though it debuted in X-MEN #10 I think but I could be wrong.


AvX set on Battleworld & then part 2 Avengers/X-MEN team up against Magneto/Doom/Loki and FF go back to MCU with Avengers afterwards

Avenger's v X-MEN

Marvel's Secret War

Under MCU production these could be close to 4 billion total gross

Spoiler

[YT]WItWE2aeJ1E[/YT]

LoL


But the relevant part is he doesn't want to team up. He wants a versus match. I like that idea then everyone goes back to their universe. The best part about Marvel is that they have 2 Mega Teams & Spider-Man. That combination with MCU casted FF could be the highest grossing ever?

 

[Orba]

I thought that Marvel already owned the Savage Land?

The Sony hacked e-mails mentioned an interest in Spider-man going to a place that was similar to the Savage Land but that the idea was shot down because it was too much like the Savage Land and Marvel held the rights to it.

 

[Zarex]

I dont think so even though it debuted in X-MEN #10 I think but I could be wrong.


AvX set on Battleworld & then part 2 Avengers/X-MEN team up against Magneto/Doom/Loki and FF go back to MCU with Avengers afterwards

Avenger's v X-MEN

Marvel's Secret War

Under MCU production these could be close to 4 billion total gross

Spoiler

[YT]WItWE2aeJ1E[/YT]

LoL


But the relevant part is he doesn't want to team up. He wants a versus match. I like that idea then everyone goes back to their universe. The best part about Marvel is that they have 2 Mega Teams & Spider-Man. That combination with MCU casted FF could be the highest grossing ever?

The problem with a mega cross company team up is that the profits are going to be split as well. And given the severely depressed BO take for XM:A, I don't see the inclusion of the newbies standing around at the end of that film providing a significant BO boost to an Avengers film. Marvel is already crossing over with GOTG, which is a much more popular movie franchise now.

 

[Dark Raven]

Kinberg may be a decent producer, but his writing resume' is really pretty awful. And with his only directing experience being Fant4stic... well that tells you something about how he might be as a writer/director.

But being in over-your-head doesn't make someone a bad person. Tim Story was in over-his-head, but while I wasn't pleased with what he did, I did feel like he was a good guy who was doing his best.

But Simon Kinberg comes off very differently than Tim Story in interviews. Throughout production of Fant4stic, Kinberg projected an arrogance and condescension. He never took the comic books seriously and he never took the fans seriously because, seemingly, he felt he was smarter than the comic book writers and smarter than the fans.

He didn't listen to fans when they expressed concerns, but rather brushed those concerns off as unimportant.

If I sat down with him and had a beer with him, I'm sure I'd come away thinking he was an okay guy.

But people who think they're better than other people rub me the wrong way and in the context of the communication we have seen between him and FF fans, there's a clear sense that he thinks he's better than FF fans and they're beneath his notice.

There's a good chance that he just doesn't communicate well and that's a bigger factor than him being a jerk, but based on all the information I have to go on, Tim Story seems like a good guy and Simon Kinberg seems like kind of a jerk.

Trank: Hey Simple Simon, we must figure out how to make L4NDO4NOD work for a modern audience.

Kinberg: We're above this material! The fans are above this material. They don't want a story set on land. We should set it in the sea for a change.

Trank: But no-one ever refers to that place you sleep or dream as the Sea of Nod.

Kinberg: You're right. Why should it be about a slumber party? The subject matter should be to do with the waking world. Or waking up. I know. Let's call it the Sea of Arousal.

Trank: Ok, but we have to market it as SE4 O4 4ROUS4L.

 

[Dark Raven]

Here's one of Roger Corman's earlier efforts with scifi:

[YT]7E5QXkkF5-U[/YT]

 

[Aztec]

This Kinberg guy is such a clueless ignorant clown that he should probably run for political office.

What the heck is going on at Fox that they can't see through this guy? I can't wait until New Mutants and Supernova just "middle" at the box office. They'll be pumping out Deadpool movies by the year and begging Hugh to come back!

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

I can't wait until New Mutants and Supernova just "middle" at the box office.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Just this week it was announced that we will not be getting a sequel to a very well received (85% on RT!) Comic book movie. The film in question outdrew FFINO domestically and came within $8M of the FOX disaster's overall gross. But this film cost $35M less to make, meaning its losses were significantly less than FFINO.

If we're not getting a Hellboy 3 there's no chance of us getting another FOX FF film.

One big different, though. Guillermo del Toro said he wouldn't make a Hellboy 3 for less than something insanely like a 200 million dollar budget. He wanted to go big. There's no chance of it ever having that budget. The Fantastic Four, on the other hand, was made cheaply. Even then, it couldn't make its budget and it's hard to imagine going even cheaper next time, but it's a far lower loss for the studio than what Del Toro wanted.

 

[Aztec]

Oh please. What do you work for Fox or something? DoFP was their biggest hit and even that didn't beat Marvel's team of unknowns the GotG. Do you really think the "New Mutants" will buck that trend? You do understand diminishing returns right? A team of unknown "new X-Men" (like the 100th time we've heard that right?) is really going to light it up at the BO? Or an X-Men film set...wait for it...IN THE '90s!!!!!!!!!!!!!' Yowza! A new decade!!! Wooohoooo!!!!!!

DP2, XF (because of DP), and Logan will do very well. The rest? Not so much.

 

[Zarex]

If you don't put the origin story on-screen for a third time, a competently made FF film is going to be pushing that $200M figure. FOX would have to go 'big" to have any chance of bringing back an audience for the film. But the BO performances don't warrant that investment.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Oh please. What do you work for Fox or something?

Just a fan of the X-MEN

DoFP was their biggest hit and even that didn't beat Marvel's team of unknowns the GotG.

Deadpool

Do you really think the "New Mutants" will buck that trend?

Yes I do. It'll be a first a comic book team with only one male Caucasian filled with Diversity and Gender Balanced made from a Chris Claremont & Stephen King fanboy. Plus this is the first YA Super Hero film. Teens will want to see their age demo represented as more then the bratty kid

Or an X-Men film set...wait for it...IN THE '90s!!!!!!!!!!!!!' Yowza!

The highest selling comic to date is X-MEN #1 from the 90's. 90's X-MEN is very popular to this day the fans want the Jim Lee era on film so idk what your talking about

DP2, XF (because of DP), and Logan will do very well. The rest? Not so much.

You don't know that

 

[Aztec]

Just a fan of the X-MEN



Deadpool



Yes I do. It'll be a first a comic book team with only one male Caucasian filled with Diversity and Gender Balanced made from a Chris Claremont & Stephen King fanboy. Plus this is the first YA Super Hero film. Teens will want to see their age demo represented as more then the bratty kid



The highest selling comic to date is X-MEN #1 from the 90's. 90's X-MEN is very popular to this day the fans want the Jim Lee era on film so idk what your talking about



You don't know that

Lol. It's hard to argue with pure fanboy logic. The X-Men #1 was not popular BECAUSE it was set in the '90s. It just happened to be released in the '90s. The whole decades gimmick is dead and was a dumb idea to begin with. It hasn't translated to much box office gold. And DP is hardly an "XM" film, and I've already stated that it was a success and its sequels and spinoffs will be too.

The X-Men core brand is past its prime and it will middle at best going forward. We will see diminishing returns. This is even regardless of quality at this point (and with clown Kinberg involved you can expect little of that too).