The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 9

[ADollarADay]

Do you think that Sony is going to reboot the series for a fourth time outside the MCU with a new cast of characters in 2019? Because I think there's as much likelihood of that happening as our finally getting a sequel to FFINO.

If Tom Rothman was still at Fox, I would be looking forward to "Fan4stic 2: Fantastic Boogaloo" right now, but he's at Sony, so yeah, I think it's possible, they wouldn't need to replace Holland or Tomei though.

 

[GeckoMoria]

Okay, we're up to three Marvel television shows operating on FOX owned television stations, and even more millions in ad revenue and streaming fees making their way into the Murdoch family fortune. Does anyone still think that the release of Marvel character rights wasn't part of this deal?

Yes, i do. Give some concrete evidence and not wishful thinking. Marvel might want some extra cash and they didn't plan on making X-men shows anyway. Fine me a connection between thw two instances.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Okay, we're up to three Marvel television shows operating on FOX owned television stations, and even more millions in ad revenue and streaming fees making their way into the Murdoch family fortune. Does anyone still think that the release of Marvel character rights wasn't part of this deal?

I don't know if I'd go that far, but I do think it makes Feige's comment that the relationship with Fox hadn't really improved - which was one of the more discouraging things I've heard over the past year - to seem questionable.

How can the relationship not be improved? Two years ago, the thought of any kind of Fox/Marvel joint project would have seemed out of the question and now we have three. If nothing else, it's nearly impossible to not infer that the relationship is better now than it used to be.

 

[NealKenneth]

It's easy to overestimate what Marvel is capable of doing in this situation. If Sony Pictures sold Spider-Man, they might as well sell the entire company! It simply was not an option.

Marvel has a good reputation in the film industry. They've gone from underdogs to defining everyone elses release schedule in just a few years. Everyone either wants to work with them or at least respects what they've done. When their launch schedule is already so vibrant, being overly aggressive about getting Spider-Man or the FF would quickly turn them into pariahs. It's better to find solutions that make everyone happy, which is what they've mostly done so far.

 

[Zarex]

Yes, i do. Give some concrete evidence and not wishful thinking. Marvel might want some extra cash and they didn't plan on making X-men shows anyway. Fine me a connection between thw two instances.

It's hard to find you a connection when nothing has been disclosed. Is the deal with FOX for one show, two shows or in perpetuity rights? Do the rights run concurrent with the film deal or is it it's own deal altogether? What is Disney/Marvel's cut? What is FOX's share of the ad revenue, streaming fees, etc. And what did Marvel receive in compensation for allowing FOX to put Marvel branded programming on their networks.

The only evidence I have is common sense and an understanding that a deal for some extra cash isn't the type of deal the Mouse gets involved in. The TV deal increases the competition in an era of peak superhero TV, strengthens FOX's hold over Disney owned intellectual property, and cedes Disney/Marvel's exclusivity regarding the production of Marvel branded product. A deal of TV rights for some extra cash makes sense if Marvel was still owned by Perlmutter and Avi was calling the shots. It doesn't make sense now.

 

[ADollarADay]

It's easy to overestimate what Marvel is capable of doing in this situation. If Sony Pictures sold Spider-Man, they might as well sell the entire company! It simply was not an option.

Marvel has a good reputation in the film industry. They've gone from underdogs to defining everyone elses release schedule in just a few years. Everyone either wants to work with them or at least respects what they've done. When their launch schedule is already so vibrant, being overly aggressive about getting Spider-Man or the FF would quickly turn them into pariahs. It's better to find solutions that make everyone happy, which is what they've mostly done so far.

Then Marvel shouldn't have bothered with it and kept developing their own thing. Merch was going to sell regardless. Civil War would probably have done the exact same or cloes to what it did at the BO without spiderman. And SPE is in the ****ter right now and might be sold anyways.

 

[NealKenneth]

The only evidence I have is common sense

And honestly that's all you need! Not sure about the FF themselves but by now we're surely getting Galactus and Silver Surfer, probably Doom too.

Then Marvel shouldn't have bothered with it and kept developing their own thing. Merch was going to sell regardless. Civil War would probably have done the exact same or cloes to what it did at the BO without spiderman. And SPE is in the ****ter right now and might be sold anyways.

What bothers you so much about this deal? That SPE might pull out after Spidey's *only* been in five films? Do you know how hyped we would have been in the Raimi era to hear that Spidey would be in FIVE films in just over three years?

And the quote from Paschal has been so overblown it's not even funny. All she said is that is possible the deal may not continue past the sequel...well no duh. That's very practical for any business, but especially one as desperate as SPE. But what do you think are the chances of that actually happening? If the MCU deal is working for SPE why on earth wouldn't they renew? And if it isn't working, they STILL would renew because then things would be even worse than 2014.

Either way I'm happy Marvel figured out how to do so much more than wait for SPE to totally collapse sometime in the 2020s, which is apparently what you would have preferred...to each his own, I guess.

 

[ADollarADay]

The only evidence I have is common sense and an understanding that a deal for some extra cash isn't the type of deal the Mouse gets involved in.

That's not evidence

What bothers you so much about this deal? That SPE might pull out after Spidey's *only* been in five films? Do you know how hyped we would have been in the Raimi era to hear that Spidey would be in FIVE films in just over three years?

And the quote from Paschal has been so overblown it's not even funny. All she said is that is possible the deal may not continue past the sequel...well no duh. That's very practical for any business, but especially one as desperate as SPE. But what do you think are the chances of that actually happening? If the MCU deal is working for SPE why on earth wouldn't they renew? And if it isn't working, they STILL would renew because then things would be even worse than 2014.

Either way I'm happy Marvel figured out how to do so much more than wait for SPE to totally collapse sometime in the 2020s, which is apparently what you would have preferred...to each his own, I guess.

It doesn't bother me, I just call a spade a spade.

Sony is already creating their own little verse. Unless things change, chances of them renewing are 50/50 IMO. It's okay though, because you think they'll renew no matter what.

 

[GeckoMoria]

It's hard to find you a connection when nothing has been disclosed. Is the deal with FOX for one show, two shows or in perpetuity rights? Do the rights run concurrent with the film deal or is it it's own deal altogether? What is Disney/Marvel's cut? What is FOX's share of the ad revenue, streaming fees, etc. And what did Marvel receive in compensation for allowing FOX to put Marvel branded programming on their networks.

The only evidence I have is common sense and an understanding that a deal for some extra cash isn't the type of deal the Mouse gets involved in. The TV deal increases the competition in an era of peak superhero TV, strengthens FOX's hold over Disney owned intellectual property, and cedes Disney/Marvel's exclusivity regarding the production of Marvel branded product. A deal of TV rights for some extra cash makes sense if Marvel was still owned by Perlmutter and Avi was calling the shots. It doesn't make sense now.

So, no evidence at all just your wishful thinking because you want the rights to come back sooner. Marvel Tv and Marvel Studios barely talk to each other. Do you actually believe that Pelmutter would give feige that big of a gift? Why? He is never gonna use the F4 rights in tv even if he gets them, the movie side will instantly utitlize them in the cosmic universe.

Why Pelmutter of all people would make a deal that benefited feige, the man who kicked him out of the movies?

 

[Vader's Fist]

And SPE is in the ****ter right now and might be sold anyways.

Since they're at the point where they're relying on the Emoji Movie to provide them with a whole new franchise, I'd love to see their contingency plan for if it fails:

https://nypost.com/2017/01/19/sony-is-weighing-a-sale-of-film-tv-business/

 

[Zarex]

So, no evidence at all just your wishful thinking because you want the rights to come back sooner. Marvel Tv and Marvel Studios barely talk to each other. Do you actually believe that Pelmutter would give feige that big of a gift? Why? He is never gonna use the F4 rights in tv even if he gets them, the movie side will instantly utitlize them in the cosmic universe.

Why Pelmutter of all people would make a deal that benefited feige, the man who kicked him out of the movies?

Do you actually believe that Perlmutter still owns the company? He doesn't. Ike sold it to Disney quite a while ago, and he's not making deals involving Disney owned IP without Iger's approval. And he wouldn't have gotten kicked out of the movies if he was still in control.

Disney Studios, including Marvel, is a major profit generator for the company, especially with the troubles at ESPN. A character infusion would be huge for the MCU, and Perlmutter isn't the guy who decides whether or not those deals get made.

 

[ADollarADay]

Since they're at the point where they're relying on the Emoji Movie to provide them with a whole new franchise, I'd love to see their contingency plan for if it fails:

https://nypost.com/2017/01/19/sony-is-weighing-a-sale-of-film-tv-business/

I have seen that before. It is speculated that they are hoping the Emoji movie breaks out so they can fetch a higher price (i.e. they would have a viable franchise). They might be looking to sell regardless, even though Kaz Hirai denies it.

Do you actually believe that Perlmutter still owns the company? He doesn't. Ike sold it to Disney quite a while ago, and he's not making deals involving Disney owned IP without Iger's approval. And he wouldn't have gotten kicked out of the movies if he was still in control.

Disney Studios, including Marvel, is a major profit generator for the company, especially with the troubles at ESPN. A character infusion would be huge for the MCU, and Perlmutter isn't the guy who decides whether or not those deals get made.

If we are going to talk about Disney as a whole, then getting ESPN subscriber numbers back up is significantly more important than getting any movie rights to IPs that they currently own, and it's no wonder why Iger and co are honing in and focusing on getting subscribers numbers up. Getting the OTT app out by the end of the year and getting ESPN in as many skinny bundles as possible is on top of their list. Possibly acquiring a majority of BAM and launching their own "Disney Family" on demand streaming service or whatever. That, finding a worthy CEO to fulfill for Iger and start the transition, possible large M&A, and stock buyback are significantly more important to the company than getting the full rights back to FF, XMen, Hulk, Spiderman or whatever else. The majority of the DIS financial call yesterday was around questions regarding digital strategy and ESPN.

 

[NealKenneth]

Sony is already creating their own little verse.

I'm shaking in my boots.

SPE isn't great at making films, but they aren't suicidal lunatics when in comes to business, (otherwise the deal never would have happened.) So unless the Venom spinoff and the Silver Sable/Black Cat actually catch on and do numbers, the deal will be renewed. SPE ins't just going to pull out of a profitable deal unless they have a viable alternative. You think the chances of those spinoffs suceeding is 50% apparently, but I think the chances are about 0.05%. I'll admit anything if possible though, so I guess we'll see!

 

[ADollarADay]

I'm shaking in my boots.

SPE isn't great at making films, but they aren't suicidal lunatics when in comes to business, (otherwise the deal never would have happened.) So unless the Venom spinoff and the Silver Sable/Black Cat actually catch on and do numbers, the deal will be renewed. SPE ins't just going to pull out of a profitable deal unless they have a viable alternative. You think the chances of those spinoffs suceeding is 50% apparently, but I think the chances are about 0.05%. I'll admit anything if possible though, so I guess we'll see!

Where did I say the chances of those spin offs succeeding is 50%?

 

[TheVileOne]

Okay, we're up to three Marvel television shows operating on FOX owned television stations, and even more millions in ad revenue and streaming fees making their way into the Murdoch family fortune. Does anyone still think that the release of Marvel character rights wasn't part of this deal?

Yup.

 

[Zarex]

That's on me. I should have posted "Other than TheVileOne"

 

[TheVileOne]

That's on me. I should have posted "Other than TheVileOne"

Multiple posters here also believe as such.

Deadpool on FXX does not equal Marvel got Fantastic Four rights back.

For starters, Deadpool is a Marvel TV and ABC Signature Studios production. Marvel TV is producing the product and essentially creating everything.

 

[Zarex]

Multiple posters here also believe as such.

Deadpool on FXX does not equal Marvel got Fantastic Four rights back.

For starters, Deadpool is a Marvel TV and ABC Signature Studios production. Marvel TV is producing the product and essentially creating everything.

Yeah, this appears to be a separate arrangement apart from the live action rights negotiation that took over a year to consummate. But regardless, it doesn't make sense to me that Disney would crack open the extremely one sided 1993 X-Men licensing agreement and grant additional live action rights to FOX while still allowing the Murdochs to hold the First Family hostage. We shall see.

 

[TheVileOne]

You've yet to come up with any proof why the deal is one-sided.

 

[wampa1]

Sony is already creating their own little verse.

LOL No, they aren't. Venom, Black Cat and whatever else they've randomly 'announced' will not get made.

 

[Zarex]

You've yet to come up with any proof why the deal is one-sided.

Well, it's difficult to analyse the deal given that we don't know fully what either side got in return. But we do know that Marvel gave up their exclusive right to produce Marvel branded television programming and increased FOX's control over a Disney owned character family. Did they do all that for a piece of Legion and The Gifted and any other shows that materialise from the deal? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

[ADollarADay]

LOL No, they aren't. Venom, Black Cat and whatever else they've randomly 'announced' will not get made.

Let's hope you're right.

You've yet to come up with any proof why the deal is one-sided.

It is extremely one sided just like all other Marvel deals from the early 90s, both movies and non movies (i.e. theme park) rights. It's even more one sided than the 2015 spiderman deal.

EDIT: I'm assuming you're talking about the 1993 XMen movie rights and late 90s/early 2000s FF movie rights deal.

 

[TheVileOne]

Excuse me. Yes the 1990s deals were one-sided. But they did not include TV rights. Only film.

The fact is, none of these TV projects are proof enough that theatrical rights for other characters have changed hands.

 

[Zarex]

Yes, we get that. But since the terms of the deal were not disclosed its totally cool to speculate on what both sides may have gotten out of the arrangement.

 

[TheVileOne]

Yeah it's totally cool and fun to speculate that these projects are the sign of something greater. But it also doesn't mean "common sense dictates that FF film rights have changed hands."