The Relationship Thread: Because Superhero Forums are Full of Sexperts! - - - - - Part 24

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[DarthDorranceBane]

 

[Frodo]

Women are great . I love em. That's all...

 

[Erzengel]

Erz hit the nail on the head awhile ago, at this point, the only thing that's going to change my attitude is seeing a change in results.

All it takes is one. When my ex-girlfriend and I broke up, there was a (small) sense of freedom, because having actually had a girlfriend, I felt like I could go out and do it again. While I didn't (and don't) harbor any negative feelings towards my ex-girlfriend, I felt a sense of being ready to go out and conquer the world.

But then 2 years of not even being able to get so much as a DATE after her (until this last girl) kind of killed all that momentum.

Which is why I don't buy into the confidence theory. There have been points in my life where I had genuine confidence in myself, even with women, and the end result was still the same.

And I don't think it's a physical attraction thing either. I mean, I acknowledge my physical traits, I am overweight, but if I was completely unattractive physically to the opposite sex, I doubt I would have gotten to 3 dates with this last girl, I wouldn't have had my ex-girlfriend (who did see me without a shirt on before we started dating), and I wouldn't have had the 2 "flings" as Erz calls them.

So what the problem here actually is, I have no clue at this point.

I didn't meet my wife on the first run through. Or the second, or the third, or the fourth.

And before you were like, well you've had relationships before. Some only lasted a few dates. Some only lasted the summer. What do you consider a success?

It goes back to meeting the right girl, whether it's on the 2nd try like Anita, or few dozen I've went for/dated before I met my wife or 100+.

 

[Arach Knight]

That is exactly the point, Erzengel! There is no time frame for success or particular number of tries. The only rule to success is to keep going until you gain what you are seeking. There is an old Japanese proverb which states "fall seven times, stand up eight." The meaning of those words, is that you have to keep trying again and again and again.

My mother once gave me a brilliant illustration about the ruin of quitting. What you are working on an invention, and the first seventeen times, the invention does not work? What if it is your nineteenth attempt that will be the one that does work? You would never know if you quit on the seventeenth attempt. One never knows how close they are to their goal, until they have crossed that finish line. And some times, that line can be just two steps ahead of you.

The odd thing is, for as long as there have been people, there have been those whom have swore they would never love again, never find another mate, or never put themselves at risk of being rejected again. It is tired and illogical rhetoric that has nothing to do with reality. We all hurt, we all get scared, but in the end, we stop tucking our tail between our legs and we give it another go. Why wear one's self out with all of the nonsense, knowing that it is nonsense?

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I didn't meet my wife on the first run through. Or the second, or the third, or the fourth.

And before you were like, well you've had relationships before. Some only lasted a few dates. Some only lasted the summer. What do you consider a success?

It goes back to meeting the right girl, whether it's on the 2nd try like Anita, or few dozen I've went for/dated before I met my wife or 100+.

Because for you, you actually had examples of women liking you and wanting to be with you.

I'm not looking for my WIFE tomorrow. I mean sure that'd be great, but really, I would just like to see an example of a girl actually -liking- me back.

But at 31 years old, even -that- has been too much to ask.

 

[Erzengel]

Well obviously they didn't like me enough for them to want to stay with me. At the time it really was a boot on my confidence.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

That is exactly the point, Erzengel! There is no time frame for success or particular number of tries. The only rule to success is to keep going until you gain what you are seeking. There is an old Japanese proverb which states "fall seven times, stand up eight." The meaning of those words, is that you have to keep trying again and again and again.

My mother once gave me a brilliant illustration about the ruin of quitting. What you are working on an invention, and the first seventeen times, the invention does not work? What if it is your nineteenth attempt that will be the one that does work? You would never know if you quit on the seventeenth attempt. One never knows how close they are to their goal, until they have crossed that finish line. And some times, that line can be just two steps ahead of you.

The odd thing is, for as long as there have been people, there have been those whom have swore they would never love again, never find another mate, or never put themselves at risk of being rejected again. It is tired and illogical rhetoric that has nothing to do with reality. We all hurt, we all get scared, but in the end, we stop tucking our tail between our legs and we give it another go. Why wear one's self out with all of the nonsense, knowing that it is nonsense?

Outside of relationships, when I fail at something, I see the lesson to be learned to better myself.

I fail at something at work? I know what to do different to succeed next time. I fail at an audition? I know how to be better prepared for next time because I know what they are looking for. Or in your example, I fail at an invention? I see what actually did work and where to build off of.

And that is why I have confidence in all other areas of my life. Because other areas, I am in control of. I know what I can do to succeed. Success is in my hands, I just have to go do it, and I know what it takes. And no, success might not come on the first shot, but success is in my hands. That's why I have confidence in being able to have a successful relationship, should I ever find one, because I know what sacrifices it takes to be in a relationship with someone, I know what all that takes. But I don't have confidence in a girl ever liking me back, and actually wanting to pursue that with me.

A girl liking me is not in my hands. I don't control how another person feels. And what are the lessons I've learned from getting rejected hundreds of times, without even one girl willing to invest back into me? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

The lesson learned is that being in a relationship is a pipedream. Wishful thinking. Something to daydream about, liking winning the lottery, or scoring a touchdown in the Super Bowl. But not a realistic possibility.

I wouldn't waste my time trying to win the lottery or to play for the 49ers? Why should I waste my time trying to find a girlfriend?

Because that's -exactly- how it feels to me. There's no lesson to learn. There's no hint of success to try to build upon. It's just been 31 years and hundreds examples of "no". The lesson is "she doesn't like you", and I don't even need to ask her to find out.

 

[Erzengel]

Then why after the girl you went on 3 dates with did you do 50 other messages if you honestly believe that there's no lesson to learn?

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Then why after the girl you went on 3 dates with did you do 50 other messages if you honestly believe that there's no lesson to learn?

Because everyone always tells me about how it's a numbers game. So I figured I'd try something different and make it a numbers game.

But not even one... guess it's not a numbers game.

 

[The Squirrel]

Any advice on how to approach a woman with a kid? Working and having a kid must keep someone pretty busy.

 

[Erzengel]

Because everyone always tells me about how it's a numbers game. So I figured I'd try something different and make it a numbers game.

But not even one... guess it's not a numbers game.

So how many of those people you are contacting might already be seeing someone? Or just left their account open?

Any advice on how to approach a woman with a kid? Working and having a kid must keep someone pretty busy.

They're still women. You just have to realize that their time is sometimes very precious. But if she's interested in dating, she will make time for it.

Just ask.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

So how many of those people you are contacting might already be seeing someone? Or just left their account open?

Most of them visited my profile after I sent the message, so they are still active and reading the message.

 

[Erzengel]

Then maybe OK Cupid isn't the right site for you. Maybe you should try something different.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Then maybe OK Cupid isn't the right site for you. Maybe you should try something different.

I've been trying something different my whole life.

"Oh you're moving to Tennessee? I think you'll have better luck out there. Girls out there will be different than the types of girls you meet in California"

*moves to Tennessee... 6 years in Tennessee and 4 years of college later, with nothing romantically to show for it*

"You need to get out of college and get out of your area. Meet new people, women your own age will be looking more for what you want. You'll do better with women your own age. You're going back to California. it will be completely different because you're completely different"

Back to California, gone after women my own age, same results.

"Have you really tried online dating?"

*Tries online dating. Meets ONE girl off of it that doesn't go anywhere. 50 messages later and not another single response*

Oh, now it's just not the right -type- of online dating.

Methods may be different, but the results are the same. Everytime.

 

[Anita18]

Because that's -exactly- how it feels to me. There's no lesson to learn. There's no hint of success to try to build upon. It's just been 31 years and hundreds examples of "no". The lesson is "she doesn't like you", and I don't even need to ask her to find out.

If you asked me if any random guy would find me attractive enough to date, I'll tell you the answer is no. Even though I am married, I can still confidently say that. Because that's what was "proven" to me in my life. One boyfriend who didn't want to sleep with me. Six years of nothing, with a few first dates sprinkled in that went nowhere.

Still, I had faith that there had to be SOMEONE out there who thought differently. Turns out I was right, but at the time, I only had to go on faith.

The main difference between you and me is how we interpret probabilities. I had a boyfriend, even though we were totally wrong for each other and he didn't sleep with me. That was a stepping stone. It happened once, it could happen again. I could say the same for you, but for some reason you have already given up. Arach Knight is right - you have no idea when you'll meet this person, but if you give up, you'll never know, ever.

 

[Erzengel]

I've been trying something different my whole life.

"Oh you're moving to Tennessee? I think you'll have better luck out there. Girls out there will be different than the types of girls you meet in California"

*moves to Tennessee... 6 years in Tennessee and 4 years of college later, with nothing romantically to show for it*

"You need to get out of college and get out of your area. Meet new people, women your own age will be looking more for what you want. You'll do better with women your own age. You're going back to California. it will be completely different because you're completely different"

Back to California, gone after women my own age, same results.

"Have you really tried online dating?"

*Tries online dating. Meets ONE girl off of it that doesn't go anywhere. 50 messages later and not another single response*

Oh, now it's just not the right -type- of online dating.

Methods may be different, but the results are the same. Everytime.

I could say the same for you, but for some reason you have already given up. Arach Knight is right - you have no idea when you'll meet this person, but if you give up, you'll never know, ever.

I don't think you'll give up because like I said previously it's important to you.

 

[Anita18]

I don't think you'll give up because like I said previously it's important to you.

Of course not. If a girl dropped into his life tomorrow, he wouldn't turn down the opportunity.

But some of us have a better chance if we try harder. I messaged my husband first on POF, after all.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Honestly, Nell... I would say just keep looking but stop yearning.

Take every opportunity that comes your way and be open to new experiences... But don't clutch to everyone/thing as if they are the be all and end all.

Start looking around you... at your friends, your family, your health and your career. Start looking at what you do have and maybe when you aren't over-analyzing it... the one little thing that you don't have might waltz into your life.

 

[Erzengel]

Of course not. If a girl dropped into his life tomorrow, he wouldn't turn down the opportunity.

But some of us have a better chance if we try harder. I messaged my husband first on POF, after all.

I think a lot of women are of the opinion that if they joined a dating site, they really wouldn't have to do the initial messaging.

I also don't want to over analyze Nell's difficulties at Tennessee or California. But, in terms of OK Cupid, with a 2 to 1 male female ratio, girls are probably bombarded with male responses. I don't know how Nell is responding but from some of the posters here, it does take more effort for guys.

 

[Anita18]

I think a lot of women are of the opinion that if they joined a dating site, they really wouldn't have to do the initial messaging.

I also don't want to over analyze Nell's difficulties at Tennessee or California. But, in terms of OK Cupid, with a 2 to 1 male female ratio, girls are probably bombarded with male responses. I don't know how Nell is responding but from some of the posters here, it does take more effort for guys.

I know. Even after 3 years, I was still getting messages from guys here and there. But I was absolutely not interested in any of the ones I got, which is why I decided to take initiative.

Even as a woman who gets inundated with messages compared to guys, I sent a fair share of first messages myself. I couldn't tell you how many over the years. I lost count. Lots. There were guys where I hoped they'd reply (my husband among them), but if they didn't, oh well. Nothing I could do about that, just keep going.

The fact that Nell is 1) keeping track of how many messages he's sent and if the women have seen them, and 2) bemoaning his conversion rate, mostly means he's yearning too much. Pfeiffer-Phan, that's a good word for it.

IME, people who are generally unattractive to their preferred sex, including myself, can't afford to keep detailed statistics on this stuff. You just send out messages like dandelion seeds in the wind and have faith that one catches.

I mean, I'm into user research and calculating conversion rates myself, thanks to my new career, but only if the data actually HELPS me. First rule of analytics: if whatever the results are won't help you take useful action, don't collect the data. It is useless and will make everyone's lives more difficult at the same time.

 

[Arach Knight]

A girl liking me is not in my hands. I don't control how another person feels. And what are the lessons I've learned from getting rejected hundreds of times, without even one girl willing to invest back into me? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

You stated the lesson to be learned, and followed it up by saying there is no lesson to be learned. You are not in control of someone else liking or loving you. Being liked or loved is a choice on the part of the other party, as much as it is your choice to like or love an other person.

Given that you have no control over that aspect, you should stop giving so much of your worry over to such matters. You only have the power to define yourself and your environment. So stop trying to change others, or chase people whom have no interest, and then become upset over affection that you never had the power to draw in the first place.

Even if you are an absolutely amazing person with "so much to offer", it doesn't mean that you will get a relationship with whom you think you should be with. My very first girlfriend cheated on me after we had been together for nearly two years. The person she left me for was overweight, still lived at home with his parents, worked at Gamestop, had no college education and no actual life plans. Currently, they are still together (unmarried). They have a child together. He works at Target, she works at Handle's Ice Cream. Meanwhile, I have a B.A. and an M.A., am a professor and a substitute teacher. Despite me being better on paper, it didn't matter, because she had a choice.

So stop putting so much weight on your shoulders, thinking that you can become some particular person or achieve some measure that will suddenly change your fortune with the ladies. Accept what you can control. Accept that which you can not control. From there, recognize what you can attract and find out how your preferences fit into that sphere.

 

[The Guard]

Exactly.

And Nell, I feel like it's beating a dead horse at this point, but you're going to have to change your attitude. Circumstances, to date, have not done that for you as you had hoped.

Whether you think people can "tell" in your day to day life, it's not healthy for you to go through life thinking in this negative, defeatist and occasionally defensive fashion.

Even if you do make it into a relationship, an attitude like the one you have displayed here time after time is going to be counterproductive in that setting. You don't just want to get into a relationship; you want to succeed in one.

You keep saying there's been no glimmer of hope for you, but there has been, and recently. What there hasn't been is the event that you personally would like to see. But you just went on three dates with someone. Whether she really liked you or not, whether you guys got along or not, in terms of dating success, that's very much a glimmer. You should be building on that glimmer, and taking away that while this girl and you might not have been right for each other, that you did have some initial success.

It's weird, because you seem to want to look at things logically...but without looking at them particularly logically. You need to stop lumping every experience you've had into "This is all that has happened". Even if that's what has happened. Dwelling on the past does absolutely no good.

I think wanting but not yearning is a good idea. It's a cliché, but all too often, things happen when we least expect them to, and when we aren't obsessing over them.

 

[RetrogradeOrbit]

Relationships suck... or maybe I suck at relationships. Either way, my life (in that regard) sucks...