The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR Batsuit Discussion Thread IX

[helloiamben]

Seriously?

No, I meant just the suit, sorry. Those other things I mentioned are happening and have always happened but usually the suit is included as well. Now not all of that is happening with the exclusion of a new Batman costume.

 

[Boom]

The thing that shocks me isn't so much that black rubber is all we've seen, it's the people who will tell you that the existing attempts are all that can possibly work. I know I've said this about a hundred times, but Spider-Man can look like Spider-Man, Green Lantern can look like Green Lantern, and the X-Men can be yellow--and we've still got people in this very thread trying to tell me that grey isn't going to work on film.

Grey.

To the future:

 

[Majik1387]

The thing that shocks me isn't so much that black rubber is all we've seen, it's the people who will tell you that the existing attempts are all that can possibly work. I know I've said this about a hundred times, but Spider-Man can look like Spider-Man, Green Lantern can look like Green Lantern, and the X-Men can be yellow--and we've still got people in this very thread trying to tell me that grey isn't going to work on film.

Grey.

Not quite that grey can't work, it's that black briefs over grey will not work.

I'm all for a two-toned suit, just no over wear briefs; An no harness either to "give the illusion" of briefs.

Also, while the X-Men movies had uniforms with yellow in them, it was redesigned from their look in the comics.

 

[itsthebatman]

The thing that shocks me isn't so much that black rubber is all we've seen, it's the people who will tell you that the existing attempts are all that can possibly work. I know I've said this about a hundred times, but Spider-Man can look like Spider-Man, Green Lantern can look like Green Lantern, and the X-Men can be yellow--and we've still got people in this very thread trying to tell me that grey isn't going to work on film.

Grey.

Bah!

It's teh unrealisticz. a real crimfighter like wut batman is wud never go out in grey, don't be sillie.

I would kill for a movie costume that resembled either Mazzuchelli or Wagners Batman.

 

[JAK®]

Also, while the X-Men movies had uniforms with yellow in them, it was redesigned from their look in the comics.

Irrelevant, for years people were saying that the blue and yellow would not work, specifically citing those colours as the very reason the costumes would not work.

It was even in the first X-Men; "What would you prefer? Yellow spandex?"

And of course, people were proven wrong.

 

[Majik1387]

Irrelevant, for years people were saying that the blue and yellow would not work, specifically citing those colours as the very reason the costumes would not work.

It was even in the first X-Men; "What would you prefer? Yellow spandex?"

And of course, people were proven wrong.

I haven't heard outcries agains the yellow costumes in the X-Men movies, I've only heard people saying the 90's(most popular at the time) costumes wouldn't work onscreen.

 

[the dmg]

Not quite that grey can't work, it's that black briefs over grey will not work.

I seem to recall quite a few posters in the BB, TDK, and this TDKR batsuit thread that have said that grey would not work and Batman works better on film in an all black suit.

Also, while the X-Men movies had uniforms with yellow in them, it was redesigned from their look in the comics.

The combination worked when a lot of people thought it wouldn't look good on film. They were wrong.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

That's the problem. Like you said Batman isn't a typical cop or soldier. He has to be more flexible, a lot quicker and more athletic. How can you accomplish that with a heavy duty suit? This was explained in the beginning of TDK which is ironic because he was given something that was heavier. Like I said there's a reason the rubber outfits and bulky armor suits are only used in films and video games.

I don't necessarily hate TDK suit. It's definitely not a deal breaker. I like the idea of Batman's movements looking a lot more natural. It's just not the way I picture a live action Batman.

There in lies the issue with any adaptation. Comics revere and represent these characters as superhuman or alien or godly-like. Which is why most of these characters don't need armor-based suits or disguises in comics.

In the end, you're right. The TDK suit is heavy and inflexible, but in Nolan's Universe and in movie mythos, the suit is flexible and light. Nolan's Bat flicks are not 'realistic' per se but instead are grounded with a hint of reality and modern ideology, and I think this suit defines that point.

I cannot wait to see the mass backpedaling if we ever get a fabric-based, comic-book-accurate suit. Hell, even just a fabric-based suit.

I will roll around in it like a pig in ****.

Don't count on it with me. I don't backpedal, and most of all, I think the whole idea of a fabric-based suit from the comics is the most archaic suggestion for a comic book adaptation (involving any mortal comic hero) known to man. Nolan, himself, can be behind the idea and I'll refuse to support it. Quote me on it.

 

[Majik1387]

I seem to recall quite a few posters in the BB, TDK, and this TDKR batsuit thread that have said that grey would not work and Batman works better on film in an all black suit.

Well, those posters clearly were naive with the first comment, and to be fair with the latter comment, looking at all the live-action Batsuits, the all black ones did look better.

 

[regwec]

The TDK suit is heavy and inflexible, but in Nolan's Universe and in movie mythos, the suit is flexible and light.

...while looking heavy and inflexible. And hot and ugly and distinctly made of rubber.

If we are going to allow Nolan to serve up another sweaty rubber wetsuit on the condition that he tells us it is a magical bullet-repulsing ninja outfit; then why can't we accept a light, slim and organic looking costume which comes with the same dubious explanation?

 

[the dmg]

Well, those posters clearly were naive with the first comment, and to be fair with the latter comment, looking at all the live-action Batsuits, the all black ones did look better.

The movies costumes have been all black, with the exception of B&R's Ice Suit.

 

[Mister Meddle]

There in lies the issue with any adaptation. Comics revere and represent these characters as superhuman or alien or godly-like. Which is why most of these characters don't need armor-based suits or disguises in comics.

In the end, you're right. The TDK suit is heavy and inflexible, but in Nolan's Universe and in movie mythos, the suit is flexible and light. Nolan's Bat flicks are not 'realistic' per se but instead are grounded with a hint of reality and modern ideology, and I think this suit defines that point.

I think Batman should have moderate protection (I suggested a bullet proof vest under a gray Bat-uniform to protect the torso) but not so much that it interferes with his tasks. I understand the suit is supposed to be light (in the film), just like we're supposed to believe Batman (in the Burton films) didn't have any issues with turning his head. It's just one of those things that looks flawed but they're expecting us to suspend our disbelief.

There are films where ordinary people have to overcome the odds without any protection (sometimes without any weapons) going against enemies that are armed but nobody complains about how unrealistic that is. Such as martial arts films.

I don't think Batman has to be flashy or have a fictional suit that makes him look like a life sized action figure. I'd rather see a more realistic and natural looking Batman. A Batman with moderate protection that can twist and bend in all different directions and capable of sprinting 5 miles if he must.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

The normal B&R suit looked more blueish grey than black to me.

 

[Doc Samson]

There's this tradition in every Batman film where the suit is "improved" and revised, it's been going on since 1989 which each consecutive Batman film. Each look of Batman fits that tone or style of the movie. Now they're just going to do away with it? That's where part of the excitement comes in for the "next one", the next Batman film. New actors joining the cast, a new villain or villains and a brand spanking new suit that the crew tries to keep hidden until it's reveal. That freshness is gone and we're just going to see more of the same.

None of that is happening.

I think this is really the main reason for a lot of the complaining, people were just assuming there was going to be another costume, and have started to gripe more with each passing day. In any case, I highly doubt a new suit would have consisted of anything you guys wanted anyway.

 

[Mister Meddle]

I thought Nolan once said that he planned to use the mobility suit in Batman Begins but they had to settle for something cheaper because they blew a lot of the money on the Batmobile. I'm assuming that's the only reason they bothered to switch the suits in TDK.

 

[Boom]

I think this is really the main reason for a lot of the complaining, people were just assuming there was going to be another costume, and have started to gripe more with each passing day. In any case, I highly doubt a new suit would have consisted of anything you guys wanted anyway.

True, but I would have been perfectly happy if they had just simplified and cleaned up the TDK suit a little bit.

 

[Doc Samson]

True, but I would have been perfectly happy if they had just simplified and cleaned up the TDK suit a little bit.

I hear you, but I can't lie, a part of me respects the fact that they're indeed using the same Tumbler, same suit, same pod. I'm a continuity freak to begin with, and it helps that I don't mind TDK suit

 

[Secret Fawful]

>Opens thread

>Sees people saying comics-accurate costumes with spandex and over-briefs can't work onscreen

>Kicks computer across the room

Narrow-minded sons of....

 

[DoomsdayApex]

...while looking heavy and inflexible. And hot and ugly and distinctly made of rubber.

If we are going to allow Nolan to serve up another sweaty rubber wetsuit on the condition that he tells us it is a magical bullet-repulsing ninja outfit; then why can't we accept a light, slim and organic looking costume which comes with the same dubious explanation?

Shrinkage, tearing, and blood stains (Tide ain't getting those spots out buddy).

Other than the fact that I loath the idea, let's face it. If a fabric-based or organic suit does make a on-screen appearance, then it'll probably be a fabric most Bat fans will dislike. In addition, think about all the experiences Batman has gone through on the big screen (shot, stabbed, lit on fire, etc.) How efficent would a fabric-based suit actually be in combat? It's likely that the organic suit would fade away or tear apart from the abuse in just two scenes. He'll be back in armor (body armor to be exact) before you know it. So what's the point?

I think Batman should have moderate protection (I suggested a bullet proof vest under a gray Bat-uniform to protect the torso) but not so much that it interferes with his tasks. I understand the suit is supposed to be light (in the film), just like we're supposed to believe Batman (in the Burton films) didn't have any issues with turning his head. It's just one of those things that looks flawed but they're expecting us to suspend our disbelief.

There are films where ordinary people have to overcome the odds without any protection (sometimes without any weapons) going against enemies that are armed but nobody complains about how unrealistic that is. Such as martial arts films.

I don't think Batman has to be flashy or have a fictional suit that makes him look like a life sized action figure. I'd rather see a more realistic and natural looking Batman. A Batman with moderate protection that can twist and bend in all different directions and capable of sprinting 5 miles if he must.

The problem I have with an organic long sleeve Batman uniform (like I told Regwec above you) is that an organic/fabric-based suit can easily be breached and/or torn apart in no time when coming combat scenes.

Plus, have you seen the idea come to life? I have. I bought a Batman costume from Party City and dressed in it with Kevlar underneath to test out the theory. Not a flattering sight at all. I appeared to have a beer belly. It was very uncomfortable as well, and believe it or not, it restricted my movements.

You make some valid points but moderate protection for Batman is a no-no, in my opinion.

To be honest, a CGI suit is more likely to happen than a fabric-based one in the near future.

 

[Mister Meddle]

The problem I have with an organic long sleeve Batman uniform (like I told Regwec above you) is that an organic/fabric-based suit can easily be breached and/or torn apart in no time when coming combat scenes.

Plus, have you seen the idea come to life? I have. I bought a Batman costume from Party City and dressed in it with Kevlar underneath to test out the theory. Not a flattering sight at all. I appeared to have a beer belly. It was very uncomfortable as well, and believe it or not, it restricted my movements.

You make some valid points but moderate protection for Batman is a no-no, in my opinion.

To be honest, a CGI suit is more likely to happen than a fabric-based one in the near future.

To be fair we both make valid points. You believe it's realistic for Batman to be very well armored, I believe some of that will have to get sacrificed in order to move around freely. It's getting late, this can go on forever but I'm sure we can agree to disagree.

 

[Boom]

Doomsday, if you haven't done so already, look into the following real world technologies:

-Spider silk armor.
-Liquid armor.
-d3o.

If we can suspend our disbelief and accept rubber as "kevlar plates over titanium-dipped tri-weave fibers," then I see no reason why we can't have a fabric-based suit, and have it explained in the film that it is comprised of liquid armor placed between two layers of tear-resistant fabric, and lined on the inside with high-impact padding in vital areas (like d3o).

All real technologies. All currently being developed.

 

[PSYLENTGuardian]

Does anyone know how Keaton, Kilmer, or Clooney felt in their Batsuits?

All of those guys seemed somewhat comfortable to me. I don't think I'd feel comfortable wearing rubber nipples, though.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

To be fair we both make valid points. You believe it's realistic for Batman to be very well armored, I believe some of that will have to get sacrificed in order to move around freely. It's getting late, this can go on forever but I'm sure we can agree to disagree.

Agreed.

A topic of this nature cannot be fully dicussed in one night.

 

[ModestMr.Green]

I'm not sure if the suit has been drawn this way for awhile, but I picked up the first issues of the New 52 Justice League and Detective Comics, and I'm quite liking the costumes featured in those, especially the Detective Comics one. It's got the style of the cloth suit, but it's quite clearly armoured, if you look in the right places. (Particularly the back of the neck, not pictured.)

Would love to see this on screen.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Doomsday, if you haven't done so already, look into the following real world technologies:

-Spider silk armor.
-Liquid armor.
-d3o.

If we can suspend our disbelief and accept rubber as viable, high-tech body armor, then I see no reason why we can't have a fabric-based suit, and have it explained in the film that it is liquid armor placed between two layers of tear-resistant fabric, and lined on the inside with high-impact padding (like d3o).

Spider Silk and Vectran:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/01/0114_050114_tv_spider.html

http://science.howstuffworks.com/body-armor1.htm

Liquid Armor:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_32/b3996068.htm

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,usa3_042104.00.html

http://www.gizmag.com/liquid-armor/15771/

http://www.sciencentral.com/articles/view.php3?article_id=218392807

d3o:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D3o



Fair enough.

However, in the past three years, scientist have created and discovered new lighter and more flexible materials that could be used for armor plating. For example, I forget the name of a recently discovered element (around 2009), but I what gathered and recollected from the Modern Science article is that this element is supposedly as flexible and thin as paper but is stronger than diamond. I think it's related to Element 117, I can't be sure. Anywho, it's being tested by the military as well.

Guess we'll find out which element can take a bullet better in the near future.