The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - Part 138

[The Guard]

I don't really see how having the world leaders all assembled on an island is any different than having them all assembled anywhere else. There was obviously security, etc.

 

[danoyse]

I don't really see how having the world leaders all assembled on an island is any different than having them all assembled anywhere else. There was obviously security, etc.

Obviously there wasn't, since Magneto showed up at the Statue of Liberty, killed the guards around the Statue, and lifted a clearly visible mutant machine to look like it was virtually duct-taped to the torch.

And a not-easily evacuated island in the middle of the Hudson for a world leader summit...outside? Good luck with that.

And no, I'm not going to argue this further. Because I don't care. I love the first X-Men and I thoroughly enjoyed TDKR. I realize Nolan's movies are of the grittier variety, but nevertheless, they still star a character that my 4-year-old nephew got as a Happy Meal toy in McDonald's last summer. So I'm willing to let the lapses in reality go in movies like this.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

These are not logic issues…they are issues of belief.

See, I don't view it that way. When arriving to these type of elements from a comic book movie, the actions that these characters take can be head scratching, mind blogging and bewildering, yet the audience is forgiving because... well... one would have to watch such a film. I mean, I don't see the issue in believing that every cop can be lead into the sewers no more than a man constructing an incredible piece of hardware and tech that no one else on planet can duplicate... in a Middle Eastern cave, or Red Matter being used to collapse a blackhole.

 

[The Guard]

Obviously there wasn't, since Magneto showed up at the Statue of Liberty, killed the guards around the Statue, and lifted a clearly visible mutant machine to look like it was virtually duct-taped to the torch.

I never said there was security that could defeat Magneto. I said there was security. And what transpires between Magneto and the security guards happens at the statue. Not where the world leaders are.

He succeeded at it because he is Magneto. He has magnetic superpowers.

And a not-easily evacuated island in the middle of the Hudson for a world leader summit...outside? Good luck with that.

I don't neccessarily think "All the world leaders" is an "easily evacuate" situation to begin with. I also don't think world leaders become world leaders without understanding the risks of being public symbols.

 

[The Guard]

See, I don't view it that way. When arriving to these type of elements from a comic book movie, the actions that these characters take can be head scratching, mind blogging and bewildering, yet the audience is forgiving because... well... one would have to watch such a film. I mean, I don't see the issue in believing that every cop can be lead into the sewers no more than a man constructing an incredible piece of hardware and tech that no one else on planet can duplicate... in a Middle Eastern cave, or Red Matter being used to collapse a blackhole.

And had this not been professed to be a franchise that was "grounded" for like, ten years now, I would say "Ok, silly stuff happens".

That isn't the case here. I don't think we're supposed to think James Gordon of all people is grossly incompetent.

But it isn't an issue of whether I can believe it. I can believe it.

The issue is, from a writing standpoint, no one should have to. Its an issue of it being a stupid, plot device-based writing/character decision with little attention to detail...there's almost no thought put into it beyond "Lets get the cops below so we can have them incapacitated for half the film".

 

[ComicStalker]

Does anyone know how Batman hoisted that Stock Broker off the back of the motorcycle at the end of the Batpod chase scene? Didnt he go under the bridge right before?
And was Batman in a rave or nightclub when he was flash dancing thru the tunnel on his way to the first Bat V. Bane fight? What was that?

 

[HighFivingMF]

Does anyone know how Batman hoisted that Stock Broker off the back of the motorcycle at the end of the Batpod chase scene? Didnt he go under the bridge right before?

I assumed he grappled off the Batpod onto the road above, pulled the guy up, then jumped down to knock the biker out.

 

[BatLobster]

Yes, though if you'll recall, he had to be tipped off about it, and almost missed the operation. His cops were pretty much presented as somewhat ineffectual, though in a deadlier manner.

Right. He didn't need an anonymous tip for The Joker at the end though. He, along with the rest of the city knew exactly when and where they could be expecting The Joker to show himself. Even for a fantasy film, it just always struck me as odd that the police just let him do it. None of the reasons you've offered have worked for me, and that's as far as I'll go with this. I suspect even Sam Hamm would chalk it up to comic book movie logic that shouldn't be overanalyzed.

And had this not been professed to be a franchises that was grounded for like, ten years now, I would say "Ok, silly stuff happens".

That isn't the case here. I don't think we're supposed to think James Gordon is grossly incompetent.

But it isn't an issue of whether I can believe it. I can believe it.

The issue is, from a writing standpoint, no one should have to. Its an issue of it being a stupid, plot device-based writing/character decision with little attention to detail...there's almost no thought put into it beyond "Lets get the cops below so we can have them incapacitated for half the film".

It wasn't the first time Gordon had taken drastic action and played directly into the hands of the villain. See: putting all the prisoners onto the ferry in TDK.

 

[Deserana]

Does anyone know how Batman hoisted that Stock Broker off the back of the motorcycle at the end of the Batpod chase scene? Didnt he go under the bridge right before?
And was Batman in a rave or nightclub when he was flash dancing thru the tunnel on his way to the first Bat V. Bane fight? What was that?

And as the age old excuse goes... because he is Batman.

Muzzel flash from the gun lighting up the tunnel hence why it was only light when the man was shooting.

 

[Deserana]

Does anyone know how Batman hoisted that Stock Broker off the back of the motorcycle at the end of the Batpod chase scene? Didnt he go under the bridge right before?
And was Batman in a rave or nightclub when he was flash dancing thru the tunnel on his way to the first Bat V. Bane fight? What was that?

As the age old excuse goes... because he is the goddamn Batman.

Muzzel flash from the gun lighting up the tunnel hence why it was only light when the man was shooting.

 

[Goku Goes Crazy]

I have a question: How did John Blake know to show the congressman a picture of Selina Kyle?

John Blake tells Selina that he showed her picture to the congressman and he's pressing charges, but how did he know to show Selina's picture? I know that the cops saw that she was at the bar, but they didn't know who she was, she was acting like a victim.

I guess I'm asking is, how did the police know that Selina Kyle was involved with the Congressman's abduction? The fact that John Blake shows the congressman her picture means they knew Selina Kyle was involved, since they pulled out a picture from her file(I'm assuming).

Please don't think I'm nitpicking, I'm not. This question doesn't bother me at all, I'm just genuinely curious. I can't quite come up with an answer as to how the police knew Selina Kyle was involved with the Congressman's abduction. How did they know it was Selina Kyle?

The only thing I can think of is that the bar had security cameras.

-The cops review the footage.

-One of the cops recognizes Selina Kyle in the footage(Since she is a renowned thief)

-John Blake pulls her file and show her picture to the Congressman

-The congressman confirms that Selina Kyle was the woman that took him to the bar, and says he's pressing charges.

-Then John Blake goes to her house and follows her to the airport and arrests her.

You think this is how it happened?

 

[georgec]

^ I think that sounds very plausible. And you're not nitpicking at all. That's a very valid question. I enjoy seeing comments like the ones you made. Respectful and rational.

If you said that it ruined the movie, then it might be nitpicking.

 

[BatLobster]

I have a question: How did John Blake know to show the congressman a picture of Selina Kyle?

John Blake tells Selina that he showed her picture to the congressman and he's pressing charges, but how did he know to show Selina's picture? I know that the cops saw that she was at the bar, but they didn't know who she was, she was acting like a victim.

I guess I'm asking is, how did the police know that Selina Kyle was involved with the Congressman's abduction? The fact that John Blake shows the congressman her picture means they knew Selina Kyle was involved, since they pulled out a picture from her file(I'm assuming).

Please don't think I'm nitpicking, I'm not. This question doesn't bother me at all, I'm just genuinely curious. I can't quite come up with an answer as to how the police knew Selina Kyle was involved with the Congressman's abduction. How did they know it was Selina Kyle?

The only thing I can think of is that the bar had security cameras.

-The cops review the footage.

-One of the cops recognizes Selina Kyle in the footage(Since she is a renowned thief)

-John Blake pulls her file and show her picture to the Congressman

-The congressman confirms that Selina Kyle was the woman that took him to the bar, and says he's pressing charges.

-Then John Blake goes to her house and follows her to the airport and arrests her.

You think this is how it happened?

I'm not sure, but I'm thinking there was a moment where Blake ran right into Selina in the bar. So he might have put it all together in hindsight.

But your thought about security cam footage from the bar works too. And if there were no cameras, another alternative is the congressman described his captor to the police and they had an artist's rendering of Selina. Blake arrested her for the kidnapping of the congressman, so since the police knew that the perpetrator was a young, attractive brunette, Selina probably was towards the top of their list of suspects.

 

[Dagenspear]

I have a question: How did John Blake know to show the congressman a picture of Selina Kyle?

John Blake tells Selina that he showed her picture to the congressman and he's pressing charges, but how did he know to show Selina's picture? I know that the cops saw that she was at the bar, but they didn't know who she was, she was acting like a victim.

He probably just told them that the screaming chick was the one who took him. Do a sketch. Run it through the system. Bam. Selina Kyle. Then show him the picture. Or Blake saw her, arrested her, then showed her picture to The Congressman. On a side note though: I love how Anne's Catwoman/Selina Kyle subverts the sexist trope of how men view women as a victim or damsel in distress, and uses their own ignorance as a tool against them in the movie. It's so cool. Her fake fear and timidness is awesome! Anne Hathaway rocks!

 

[WiseBrook]

Just saw it for the fourth time in theaters, second in Imax (as well as a few dl'd cam viewings) and was able to pick out a lot of these details. Yes, it's definitely Blake who runs into her outside the bar. You'd have to assume he put two and two together, they didnt have time to explain everything you just have to pay attention.

In general, there's so much to pick up in this movie, they really do have a lot of the little details and plot holes filled, it's all just so tightly packed in that it takes several viewings. I was definitely not impressed after my first viewing, but now I'm pretty firm in my belief that this is overall my favorite, while I like parts of BB and TDK more.

 

[Uroboric Forms]

It's like you guys totally ignored his original point of comparing movies that aren't supposed to be grounded and more realistic to ones that are.

Those movies don't look or act as realistic, because of rules that apply in those universes. While yes, Nolan's other Bat-flicks had moments where you had to suspend your disbelief, nothing was exaggerated like you'll see in other CBMs. It's more of Nolan's fault for changing up a LOT of what his other 2 movies tried so hard to setup ie. a realistic and believable universe.

One moment you hear people say "Nolan's Batman movies raised the bar, and put these characters in a believable setting that is very realistic", to "dude, of course it doesn't make sense/is exaggerated, its a comic book movie".

Nothing in TDKR is out of the realm of possibility established by the first two films. Gordon sending a load of police down in the sewer? After being there with the Joker's rise, Ra's Al Ghul's attacks etc. He identified a threat and made an overzealous move to try and stamp it out before Bane has a chance to get a chokehold on the city. It's not unthinkable that he would do something like that.

 

[Shpati]

If the prisoners were so hostile toward Talia and her mother, why were they so nice to Bruce Wayne?

 

[Ravage]

If the prisoners were so hostile toward Talia and her mother, why were they so nice to Bruce Wayne?

Because the women's father was the unnamed warlord that put all those people in that pit. He sent his own daughter in just because she was in love with Ra's who was just a mercenary under warlord's command at that time.
It can be count pretty normal for prisoners to try to exact some form of revenge. She was definitely symbolizing them their hatred for warlord and they were never so friendly to both mom and baby, except Bane who probably never met the warlord himself and born in that hell too. Most possibly when someone snapped and decided to exact revenge, Bane saved the child.
There are lots of untold mysteries left to audience's imagination to solve in this movie but thats how I take it about Bane&Talia friendship.

The important point there is those prisoners were ordinary good people who got wasted because of warlord of a**holes I guess, not your everyday wild prison savages.
They were pretty calm and helpful to Bruce. You cant expect medical help and encouragement from prisoners if someone beats you to death and puts you to a security facility today.

 

[Uroboric Forms]

She was also pretty bangable. Besides, I'm pretty sure Ra's cleared it out and Bane reclaimed it.

 

[BlackFox]

Just saw it for the fourth time in theaters, second in Imax (as well as a few dl'd cam viewings) and was able to pick out a lot of these details. Yes, it's definitely Blake who runs into her outside the bar. You'd have to assume he put two and two together, they didnt have time to explain everything you just have to pay attention.

In general, there's so much to pick up in this movie, they really do have a lot of the little details and plot holes filled, it's all just so tightly packed in that it takes several viewings. I was definitely not impressed after my first viewing, but now I'm pretty firm in my belief that this is overall my favorite, while I like parts of BB and TDK more.

Yeah theres deffinately a lot to pick up on this one, 2nd and 3rd viewings helped a great deal and made it a lot more easier to make sense of things when the first one flashed by so quickly despite its length.

 

[MultipleJesuses]

Yeah my 2nd and 3rd viewings just confirmed my first impression that its the greatest movie ever made.

 

[Kane52630]

Boy Wonder

 

[venus_ice]

Mmmmmmmmm sexy baby

 

[I Am The Knight]

Yeah my 2nd and 3rd viewings just confirmed my first impression that its the greatest movie ever made.

 

[MultipleJesuses]

That was pretty much my reaction when the credits rolled
So much joy to finally discover the perfect movie.