The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - Part 138

[BlackFox]

So, anyone interested in an extended cut ?

Hell's yeah, where do I sign up? Longer final battle please!!t:

 

[Micromind]

Hell's yeah, where do I sign up? Longer final battle please!!t:

Hell yes, In the spy footage on taken sets, the battle between cops and Bane's army looks longer with so many scenes of Bane and Bats fighting.

 

[BlackFox]

Yeah my 2nd and 3rd viewings just confirmed my first impression that its the greatest movie ever made.

Well its good you enjoyed and there are some in the complete opposite direction so its good to have balance, but thats quite a statement.

I'm not sure any ONE film has the ability to be called that though, there's too many different types of film for one to flat out be above all others. Depends on the mood you are in as to what you want to watch I find. I have several favourite films (who doesn't!) but couldn't say which one is better than the rest, they all have there merits in their own story and message.

But hey if thats the way you see it good luck to you

 

[KalMart]

Hell yes, In the spy footage on taken sets, the battle between cops and Bane's army looks longer with so many scenes of Bane and Bats fighting.

That's not rally a good way to judge. There's likely substantially more footage anyway, but a big part of editing is whittling it down.

 

[BlackFox]

Hell yes, In the spy footage on taken sets, the battle between cops and Bane's army looks longer with so many scenes of Bane and Bats fighting.

Also Foley's cut death scene, I just really wish the fight between Bats and Banes was a little longer more than anything though. Was a great second round but I needed MORE!!

 

[atomicbattery]

Hmmm.. your opinion though. Mine is that TDKR is the best movie ever made.

While it might have been prudent to replace 'the best' with 'my favorite', I kinda agree with MultipleJesuses. I have never experienced the almost physical sense of exhilaration from a film that I did with TDKR.

 

[Micromind]

Also Foley's cut death scene

That was a great scene !

That's not rally a good way to judge. There's likely substantially more footage anyway, but a big part of editing is whittling it down.

I agree that editing is done with best of intentions by the director and editor for a movie, but that is applicable to Theatrical release, for a definitive version of the movie.

But I am talking about extended version where many scenes that most fans want are included.

 

[MiniBond]

one thing that struck me brutally the other day: how come Fox can ask about the Bat's autopilot to the two enginneers (one of them being seated IN the Bat IIRC) when IT JUST BLEW UP WITH A NUKE ASHORE ????

 

[Travesty]

one thing that struck me brutally the other day: how come Fox can ask about the Bat's autopilot to the two enginneers (one of them being seated IN the Bat IIRC) when IT JUST BLEW UP WITH A NUKE ASHORE ????

There were others being worked on. You could see them on either side of the finished Bat.

 

[Kane52630]

Hell's yeah, where do I sign up? Longer final battle please!!t:

I just want a longer first hour, a lot of scenes felt too quick.

 

[BlackFox]

I just want a longer first hour, a lot of scenes felt too quick.

Ok just more everything!!!t:

 

[KalMart]

Ok just more everything!!!t:

That's the problem...the movie didn't need more everything, it needed less than what they tried to cram into it.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

There were others being worked on. You could see them on either side of the finished Bat.

Ya that was something that bothered me during my second viewing but realized on my third that there was more than one.

 

[KalMart]

I agree that editing is done with best of intentions by the director and editor for a movie, but that is applicable to Theatrical release, for a definitive version of the movie.

But I am talking about extended version where many scenes that most fans want are included.

That's basically a fan-edit/-service. If they just release it as bonus material, fans can do it on their own how they like. But don't ask the filmmakers to put out another versions that they didn't want to.

 

[BlackFox]

That's the problem...the movie didn't need more everything, it needed less than what they tried to cram into it.

I disagree it needed more to explain what was there, but it may well be all we get anyway, Nolans not known for his extended cuts, it will probably be what it is.

 

[Marvolo]

The film could probably benefit from some added scenes. If Nolan cut some stuff to get the runtime down for IMAX im gonna lose some faith in Nolan. And id be willing to bet this is the case. The way the Gordan/Bruce hospital scene was edited and the way Nolan cut out Bruce's entrance into the charity ball seem like cuts that were made to shave down the runtime to squeeze it into IMAX. Not all that necessary but it made the film feel clippy in some places. There are only like a hundred true 15/70 IMAX in the States and to edit a film just so those few venues can play it seems short sighted. I love IMAX but you dont let a film suffer so that a few venues cant play it. If true film IMAX couldnt fit the runtime they should have had intermissions or had a different edit of the film similar to how Attack of the Clones had a shorter IMAX cut when it was released.

 

[KalMart]

I disagree it needed more to explain what was there, but it may well be all we get anyway, Nolans not known for his extended cuts, it will probably be what it is.

I really don't think so because there was plenty of verbal explaining/exposition which pretty much tells you that they were condensing to begin with. More running time wouldn't have helped that. They either needed to streamline and pare down what they wanted to include, or go for a substantially longer movie, maybe even two of them, to give everything the 'breathing room' that some feel it needed. But it was pretty-much written and filmed to be the length we got, not just chopped down at the end.

And yeah, Nolan isn't known for 'extended cuts' because the studio doesn't really need them for more success on his films.....which is the only real incentive for something like that. We're not looking at something that's like LOTR with this, it's stuff that was cut like it would normally be for the sake of getting the film they want out.

 

[Deserana]

The film could probably benefit from some added scenes. If Nolan cut some stuff to get the runtime down for IMAX im gonna lose some faith in Nolan. And id be willing to bet this is the case. The way the Gordan/Bruce hospital scene was edited and the way Nolan cut out Bruce's entrance into the charity ball seem like cuts that were made to shave down the runtime to squeeze it into IMAX. Not all that necessary but it made the film feel clippy in some places.

The prologue had the sentence "We had to find out what he told you about us." but in the final edit removed "about us" and it really didn't sound right. You could tell Bane didn't finish his sentence.

 

[BatLobster]

TDK was overstuffed to me too. Meh, I've come to expect it from Nolan and it doesn't bother me so much. I find having the movies on the plot-heavy side make them more enjoyable for multiple viewings. Gives you a lot to chew on.

 

[KalMart]

The film could probably benefit from some added scenes. If Nolan cut some stuff to get the runtime down for IMAX im gonna lose some faith in Nolan. And id be willing to bet this is the case. The way the Gordan/Bruce hospital scene was edited and the way Nolan cut out Bruce's entrance into the charity ball seem like cuts that were made to shave down the runtime to squeeze it into IMAX. Not all that necessary but it made the film feel clippy in some places. There are only like a hundred true 15/70 IMAX in the States and to edit a film just so those few venues can play it seems short sighted. I love IMAX but you dont let a film suffer so that a few venues cant play it. If true film IMAX couldnt fit the runtime they should have had intermissions or had a different edit of the film similar to how Attack of the Clones had a shorter IMAX cut when it was released.

He most likely didn't. Again, not to say that it wasn't a concern at any time, but it's not what would dictate compromising a movie of this magnitude's creative integrity for every version. I really think that some are having a harder time recognizing that the issues lie in the movie as a whole and what they intended to to pack in altogether...not a case of shaving it down. Trust me, they would have recognized if the edit actually hurt the film that way to an extent that the exclusion of some scenes made the difference. Rushed and truncated elements in writing can often make the editing feel that way no matter what you do, I know this from experience. There are too many tell-tale aspects in the version we got that indicate it wasn't an editing thing.

BUT...if it really does turn out that that he came out with a movie that just ballooned past 2:40 + or what have you, and then had to be just chopped to fit into one IMAX reel...then he really did mess up badly if he set out to make something and it turned out so bloated. I think it's more the former.

Nolan's human, there are issues with this film that aren't as bad in his other ones, that go deeper and that editing and run times won't cure...it happens to the best of them. It's still a good ending to what's ultimately the high-water-mark of the genre.

 

[HighFivingMF]

one thing that struck me brutally the other day: how come Fox can ask about the Bat's autopilot to the two enginneers (one of them being seated IN the Bat IIRC) when IT JUST BLEW UP WITH A NUKE ASHORE ????

The answer to this question should be a sticky. It gets asked every other day.

 

[BlackFox]

I really don't think so because there was plenty of verbal explaining/exposition which pretty much tells you that they were condensing to begin with. More running time wouldn't have helped that. They either needed to streamline and pare down what they wanted to include, or go for a substantially longer movie, maybe even two of them, to give everything the 'breathing room' that some feel it needed. But it was pretty-much written and filmed to be the length we got, not just chopped down at the end.

And yeah, Nolan isn't known for 'extended cuts' because the studio doesn't really need them for more success on his films.....which is the only real incentive for something like that. We're not looking at something that's like LOTR with this, it's stuff that was cut like it would normally be for the sake of getting the film they want out.

Yeah, what was cut out was probably done for a good reason, or IMAX limitations thats someone else eluded to in another thread.

Yeah the two movie idea is one thats been banded about a few times, not sure I would have overly liked that, I like the fact we have a trilogy, keeps things neat and tidy but it may have worked well, we shall never know I guess.

Maybe having a full to the brim film may work for it better in the long run, giving it plenty of reason for repeat viewings. I picked up on new things on every one I had, I'm sure once the dvd is out I will find even more.

I guess its just when you really dig something you always want more and never want it to endt:

 

[Marvolo]

He most likely didn't. Again, not to say that it wasn't a concern at any time, but it's not what would dictate compromising a movie of this magnitude's creative integrity for every version. I really think that some are having a harder time recognizing that the issues lie in the movie as a whole and what they intended to to pack in altogether...not a case of shaving it down. Trust me, they would have recognized if the edit actually hurt the film that way to an extent that the exclusion of some scenes made the difference. Rushed and truncated elements in writing can often make the editing feel that way no matter what you do, I know this from experience. There are too many tell-tale aspects in the version we got that indicate it wasn't an editing thing.

BUT...if it really does turn out that that he came out with a movie that just ballooned past 2:40 + or what have you, and then had to be just chopped to fit into one IMAX reel...then he really did mess up badly if he set out to make something and it turned out so bloated. I think it's more the former.

Nolan's human, there are issues with this film that aren't as bad in his other ones, that go deeper and that editing and run times won't cure...it happens to the best of them. It's still a good ending to what's ultimately the high-water-mark of the genre.

Im fully aware of the films issues and one of those issues is the editing. Im an editing junkie. Its a hobby of mine. I do my own stuff and in movies its one of those things im most critical of. TDKR has some questionable editing and most of it is the beginning or end of a scene being truncated, odd scene transitions, or an inability for scenes to breathe. Given that we know IMAX film venues could barely accomodate the final cut it doesnt take much to figure out that they sacrificed as many little bits as they could to squeeze it into an IMAX acceptable runtime. TDKRs editing just feels sloppy at times.

 

[KalMart]

Yeah, what was cut out was probably done for a good reason, or IMAX limitations thats someone else eluded to in another thread.

Yeah the two movie idea is one thats been banded about a few times, not sure I would have overly liked that, I like the fact we have a trilogy, keeps things neat and tidy but it may have worked well, we shall never know I guess.

Maybe having a full to the brim film may work for it better in the long run, giving it plenty of reason for repeat viewings. I picked up on new things on every one I had, I'm sure once the dvd is out I will find even more.

I guess its just when you really dig something you always want more and never want it to endt:

It's because Nolan is such a good craftsman that we would be more inclined to believe he didn't come out with some 3:20 magnum opus, or somethgin tat should have been two films that had to scramble to make just one IMAX plate. To have one of these movies be 3+ hours just isn't skilled to begin with..it's a gross oversight that you wouldn't expect from him. So it's more likely that he indeed present what he felt was the best cut of his movie AS a movie...and that 2:40-ish was where it comfortably turned out to be, regardless of format.

And yeah, of course comic fans in particular are always going to want more...even if it's a case of quantity over quality. But unfortunately, more recent mass media and inclusion of bonus/behind-the-scenes material has somewhat misguided a lot of moviegoers into thinking that there's always something more out there that they can access or are even entitled to somehow. When it's really no different than it's always been...we get the movie we get...anything else is gravy, but it it's not mandatory.

 

[KalMart]

Im fully aware of the films issues and one of those issues is the editing. Im an editing junkie. Its a hobby of mine. I do my own stuff and in movies its one of those things im most critical of.

That's cool to hear. I've been doing it professionally for 15 years and from before it was even digital, so trust me, there's a lot that may effect even good editing to feel like not-so-good editing. When you do it a lot for real films, you can pick up when it's the case and when it's more than just the part of the edit that contributes to it, especially when you've been in those situations.

TDKR has some questionable editing and most of it is the beginning or end of a scene being truncated, odd scene transitions, or an inability for scenes to breathe. Given that we know IMAX film venues could barely accomodate the final cut it doesnt take much to figure out that they sacrificed as many little bits as they could to squeeze it into an IMAX acceptable runtime. TDKRs editing just feels sloppy at times.

And again, that may be how it's perceived, but there's a lot more that goes into this stuff that says otherwise. It's too easy an excuse to point to IMAX, or even to the editing in this movie. The signs run considerably deeper. I think for many it may be harder to acknowledge that considering it's Nolan than reaching for external factors.