The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - Part 142

[TheDarkKnight08]

Fair enough. As ive said in other threads...you give Bruce no choice but to come out of retirement (this time he doesnt want to come back as opposed to TDKR) because of the level of threat. He puts this League together Nick Fury style as just "Bruce Wayne" but when he comes back it's in the last half of the movie. Where it's on the other side of the planet or whatever. A secretive place where nobody would know outside of the League. No vehicles, no attention seeking stuff. Just Batman in the shadows. Justice League could be Bruce's very own "League of Shadows" (that part wasnt my idea but it's a damn good one).

Right on. It'll be in line with his ideologies in the DK trilogy, while also introducing a more weary, hardened Batman. While assembling them, they could also allude to Brother Eye and Tower of Babel by way of him keeping super close tabs on the team, causing tension between them.

Dammit, I'm getting way ahead of myself. It may not even happen, but a guy can dream, right? t:

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

I would LOVE to see more of Bale-Bats ... but Nolan put an end to that. To bring him back would just be spitting on this story.

Plus I really don't want JGL anywhere near an actual Bat-suit. Guess we'll just have to see how this develops. Maybe WB is throwing money at Nolan to oversee all this.

 

[J.Howlett]

Right on. It'll be in line with his ideologies in the DK trilogy, while also introducing a more weary, hardened Batman. While assembling them, they could also allude to Brother Eye and Tower of Babel by way of him keeping super close tabs on the team, causing tension between them.

Dammit, I'm getting way ahead of myself. It may not even happen, but a guy can dream, right? t:

That's what makes this thing so interesting. Before that Man of Steel trailer dropped, it didn't even become a thought in my mind that Nolan's universe would continue.

But looking at that trailer, you could definitely do it. Tonally, if the trailer is indicative of the film, they do fit.

The only problem with making it work is the timeline. No matter how you slice it, Clark's an adult when Bane takes over Gotham. How do you explain that to the audience; that Superman didn't help save Gotham from nuclear disaster?

Even more interesting than that is this; if Man of Steel is the first in the DC Universe and a new Batman will be reboot in the Justice League, is this the tone WB wants for the DC Universe?

I say this because it is drastically different, just based on the Man of Steel trailer, than Marvel's tone for their universe.

Is this what we're going to be seeing, tonally, from the DC universe?

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

That's what makes this thing so interesting. Before that Man of Steel trailer dropped, it didn't even become a thought in my mind that Nolan's universe would continue.

But looking at that trailer, you could definitely do it. Tonally, if the trailer is indicative of the film, they do fit.

The only problem with making it work is the timeline. No matter how you slice it, Clark's an adult when Bane takes over Gotham. How do you explain that to the audience; that Superman didn't help save Gotham from nuclear disaster?

Even more interesting than that is this; if Man of Steel is the first in the DC Universe and a new Batman will be reboot in the Justice League, is this the tone WB wants for the DC Universe?

I say this because it is drastically different, just based on the Man of Steel trailer, than Marvel's tone for their universe.

Is this what we're going to be seeing, tonally, from the DC universe?

There is a theory floating around that Clark abandons his powers after the talk with Jonathan, leading to

Spoiler

Clark not using his powers when the tornado hits Smallville, so he can't save his father, which in turn leads into his decade-ish long exile.

So along with the exile, he may not want to use his powers, hence being 1) unaware of the siege and 2) hesitant to help

 

[J.Howlett]

There is a theory floating around that Clark abandons his powers after the talk with Jonathan, leading to

Spoiler

Clark not using his powers when the tornado hits Smallville, so he can't save his father, which in turn leads into his decade-ish long exile.

So along with the exile, he may not want to use his powers, hence being 1) unaware of the siege and 2) hesitant to help

Hadn't heard that theory. If true, there's your timeline problem solving logic.

 

[kvz5]

There is a theory floating around that Clark abandons his powers after the talk with Jonathan, leading to

Spoiler

Clark not using his powers when the tornado hits Smallville, so he can't save his father, which in turn leads into his decade-ish long exile.

So along with the exile, he may not want to use his powers, hence being 1) unaware of the siege and 2) hesitant to help

Looks like Clark and Bruce found something they can bond on:

Spoiler

self-imposed exile.

 

[shauner111]

Right on. It'll be in line with his ideologies in the DK trilogy, while also introducing a more weary, hardened Batman. While assembling them, they could also allude to Brother Eye and Tower of Babel by way of him keeping super close tabs on the team, causing tension between them.

Dammit, I'm getting way ahead of myself. It may not even happen, but a guy can dream, right? t:

Hah of course!

I would LOVE to see more of Bale-Bats ... but Nolan put an end to that. To bring him back would just be spitting on this story.

Plus I really don't want JGL anywhere near an actual Bat-suit. Guess we'll just have to see how this develops. Maybe WB is throwing money at Nolan to oversee all this.

Disagree with that. It wouldnt spit on it at all if he's on the other side of the planet, still not coming back to Gotham, acting as Bruce first then putting on the cowl for a one time only deal. In the shadows, out of the public eye. In closed areas. Gothams people and all of earth wouldn't know that batman "isnt dead".

That's what makes this thing so interesting. Before that Man of Steel trailer dropped, it didn't even become a thought in my mind that Nolan's universe would continue.

But looking at that trailer, you could definitely do it. Tonally, if the trailer is indicative of the film, they do fit.

The only problem with making it work is the timeline. No matter how you slice it, Clark's an adult when Bane takes over Gotham. How do you explain that to the audience; that Superman didn't help save Gotham from nuclear disaster?

Even more interesting than that is this; if Man of Steel is the first in the DC Universe and a new Batman will be reboot in the Justice League, is this the tone WB wants for the DC Universe?

I say this because it is drastically different, just based on the Man of Steel trailer, than Marvel's tone for their universe.

Is this what we're going to be seeing, tonally, from the DC universe?

What Llama said about Clark is probably right. And this whole adult Clark who first puts on his suit and cape and battles Zod, etc....that could easily be explained as "taking place a few years after the events of TDKR".

As for your other question. My guess is if Batman is rebooted it will be similar to MOS. As will the other properties. Gotham can have fantastical visuals but it doesnt need to get into monsters. But something like a Mr. Freeze can happen. I mean, MOS looks pretty grounded (the earth elements do) it's the Kryptonian stuff that is obviously sci-fi & alien. But Metropolis can be just like Nolans Gotham. It looks that way to me.

 

[J.Howlett]

What Llama said about Clark is probably right. And this whole adult Clark who first puts on his suit and cape and battles Zod, etc....that could easily be explained as "taking place a few years after the events of TDKR".

As for your other question. My guess is if Batman is rebooted it will be similar to MOS. As will the other properties. Gotham can have fantastical visuals but it doesnt need to get into monsters. But something like a Mr. Freeze can happen. I mean, MOS looks pretty grounded (the earth elements do) it's the Kryptonian stuff that is obviously sci-fi & alien. But Metropolis can be just like Nolans Gotham. It looks that way to me.

God, as much as I want Nolan's Knight Trilogy to be the exception to the rule within this genre, that damn Man of Steel trailer and the way Nolan ends Rises (thus turning the Batman movie character into essentially James Bond, thus giving WB the perfect excuse to continue in his universe) has my mind completely racing with the possibilities.

 

[Mad Love]

Nolanverse is basically superheroes with real-world consequences, which is very similar to Watchmen's world.

I would love to see it expand.

 

[J.Howlett]

Nolanverse is basically superheroes with real-world consequences, which is very similar to Watchmen's world.

I would love to see it expand.

Yep. Hadn't thought of it that way but yep. That's spot on.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

I keep coming back to what Nolan said though:

The key thing that makes the third film a great possibility for us is that we want to finish our story [...] rather than infinitely blowing up the balloon and expanding the story [...] Unlike the comics, these things don't go on forever in film and viewing it as a story with an end is useful. Viewing it as an ending, that sets you very much on the right track about the appropriate conclusion

It'll be interesting to see how much he backtracks. Even if he is only involved from a producer standpoint.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

I want a reboot. I don't want Robin as Batman in the Nolanverse teaming up with aliens and fighting aliens is a non-starter. I've always found the concept of the Justice League annoying enough but at least it could have been some separate entity that would be easy to ignore in the canon.

 

[shauner111]

Sure but you can look at it as an ending to Bruce being Batman for his city of Gotham and doing it as a means to let out his anger and save the city. An ending to Bruce Wayne living in a Gotham city where all this crap happened to him. It would still honor that.

That universe still goes on in some fashion. Bruce has new journeys and maybe his Batman comes back as a mean to help save the world instead of just saving 1 American city while letting out the anger.

 

[BatmanBeyond]

After the new MoS trailer, I'm feeling very optimistic/excited about the movie. JGL as Batman in the end will ruin that for me. They really should just get a new Batman and leave the Nolanverse alone since they won't be able to get Bale as Batman back anyway.

I just don't want to see JGL in Batsuit...ever, really. Nightwing would maybe be a different story, but still they need to just leave it alone. It would be the ultimate insult to Superman to have the exclamation point on his big reboot be a Batman tie-in.

I'm still pretty worried that WB may hijack the MoS franchise before it even gets a chance to grown into its own for a potentially big misfire with a premature JLA film.

Man, I would really love to be a fly on the wall for the meetings where they are trying to sort out all of this stuff.

Agreed. No JGL Batman for me, please. And especially not in MoS (which I'm really looking forward to, despite not being a fan of Superman).

Bane needs no leg braces

Haha, poor Supes. He gets kicked around by everyone. t:

 

[BatmanBeyond]

I second everything said above. No to JGL. If WB is going ahead this forced DC Cinematic Universe, at least give the fans what we want. The ending of TDKR and JGL as Bruce's protege worked because that was the end. We didn't have to see JGL awkwardly trying to take over Bruce's mantle and it capped off some of the themes introduced in the trilogy. So, either get someone else or give Bale tons of cash to come back. Batman is, always will Bruce Wayne.

THIS. The ending also leaves it a bit ambiguous if he'll actually become the next Batman, do his own thing (Nightwing) or just have Bruce's technology at his disposal.

I really can't see Nolan's more personal take on Batman working in a Superman/JL movie. I think that requires a more seasoned and experienced Batman in order to work properly.

 

[Mad Love]

Lex and Bane should definitely team up

 

[BatmanBeyond]

Lex and Bane should definitely team up

There would definitely be some epicly evil baldness involved.

 

[Anno_Domini]

I dunno, the two are such different beasts. TDKR is incredibly more impressive from a scale and direction point of view and more emotionally resonant, but Lincoln had a nearly perfect build up to the vote and then what happens after that is just such an odd break of pace, reminded me of the end of LOTR. Both had amazing performances (obviously DDL is a shoe-in for the Oscar here, he's incredible).

But filmmaking has so many different goals. Lincoln is a drama, TDKR is an intelligent tentpole blockbuster. Which one has more frequent amazing entries? TDKR is an anomaly in filmmaking, whereas Lincoln is a superb drama, so to me, TDKR has done more for filmmaking this year than Lincoln by far. Drama's do get the upper hand at the Academy, I just think it's important to see a realistic perspective.

I'm not buying any of this logic.

I loved TDKR, but Lincoln was still better. And so was Argo and The Master(those are the films I have watched at least. I could really enjoy Les Mis, Life of Pi, Zero Dark Thirty, Silver Linings Playbook, Django Unchained, The Hobbit and Zero Dark Thirty if I ever get to watch them).

 

[TheDarkKnight08]

Sure but you can look at it as an ending to Bruce being Batman for his city of Gotham and doing it as a means to let out his anger and save the city. An ending to Bruce Wayne living in a Gotham city where all this crap happened to him. It would still honor that.

That universe still goes on in some fashion. Bruce has new journeys and maybe his Batman comes back as a mean to help save the world instead of just saving 1 American city while letting out the anger.

Exactly. The ambiguous nature of the ending could mean many different things. If they leave it alone, it's what we thought the moment we saw it: he was happy and was able to let go of his tragedy, effecting ending Nolan's vision and, for once, giving us an ending for Batman that didn't end in tragedy or death.

However, if they bring Bale back (which probably won't happen), it could mean he was willing let Gotham go. He saved it, now he's willing to move onto bigger things, putting a team together...

Even if they don't bring Bale back, this new, rebooted Batman should be the one to put the JL together. He's DC's most popular character and, well, none of the other members have a real reason to start something this big.

 

[AnneFan]

After the new MoS trailer, I'm feeling very optimistic/excited about the movie. JGL as Batman in the end will ruin that for me. They really should just get a new Batman and leave the Nolanverse alone since they won't be able to get Bale as Batman back anyway.

Agreed 100%.

 

[ChrisB]

I walked out of TDKR wanting to see JGL as Batman... but I don't want to see anyone from Nolan's Gotham in Justice League fighting against Gods.

 

[BatLobster]

Agreed. That's what gets me. IMO, it'd really be dishonoring all the consideration and thought that went into keeping that universe grounded in some sort of reality. It'd be pulling the rug out from under that world.

 

[The Joker]

Lex and Bane should definitely team up

Do you mean Nolan's Bane? Bane has a great big hole in his chest courtesy of Selina Kyle

 

[Mad Love]

Do you mean Nolan's Bane? Bane has a great big hole in his chest courtesy of Selina Kyle

The guy could punch through concrete pillars. And his special vest could have detonated the ammunition right before impact to lessen the blow. I think his death is tentative.

 

[The Joker]

The guy could punch through concrete pillars. And his special vest could have detonated the ammunition right before impact to lessen the blow. I think his death is tentative.

Yeah, and the Bat-Pod gun could blow up Tumblers with one shot. If Bane survived that then I'm the King of England