The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - Part 142

[BlueLightning]

So true. Catwoman is one of the highlights of Rises for me. That fact alone tells so much about the care they took with every character they wrote.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I think Jonah writes really, really good screenplays, and I do not fault him one iota for what I consider shortfalls in The Dark Knight Rises, though I understand why they are there.

The fact that he said he is open to keep writing for other DC characters has made me a very happy camper, I've always thought he and David Goyer should be the driving forces creatively behind any potential DCCU.

 

[Tequilla]

I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of those parallels are intentional. Nolan had Wally watch the previous two movies in IMAX prior to shooting because they wanted to make sure the look of the film was bridging the gap between the two movies the way the story was. Even little things like the angle of Bruce on the ground with Ra's/Bane hovering above him seem like deliberate choices in the cinematography.

They are definitely intentional.

 

[Deserana]

Jonah Nolan interview with Empire -

Spoiler

What are you working on at the moment?
Well, I’m working on my TV show (Person Of Interest)... and then trying to figure out what the next movie is!
Yes, that’s the thing everybody’s waiting to hear about!
Yeah, it’s very exciting. Got a couple of interesting things I’m working on.


Is this together with Chris, or your own thing?
I do have a couple of things I’d love to work with him on, yeah. We’ll see how it works out...

The Dark Knight Rises took the superhero genre to a truly epic level. Was there a sense that you could do anything you liked on this one?
The fun thing about writing in that environment is, with Emma [Thomas] and Chris and Wally [Pfister] and their team, whatever you want to do with a scene they would be able to achieve it. The beauty of that is you don’t have to sit there saying to yourself, ‘Well they’re not going to be able to do that!’ After Inception, Chris can do anything. You can write a sequence as huge as you like.


It’s interesting now, looking at the Bane prologue in the context of this year’s films — The Avengers, Skyfall — there does seem to be this trend of villains conspiring to get themselves captured...
Well, the Joker did that gag in The Dark Knight and that’s one of my favourite scenes in The Dark Knight! But I’m sure we were inspired by what went before — probably Bond movies or something else. There’s something great about it: in the face of certain defeat they have actually engineered the whole thing. There are similarities between Bane and The Joker in that sense. With both you think the shoe is on the other foot, and then you realise that the entire encounter has been engineered for them to get something they want. But The Joker has a particularly municipal aim. With this one, Bane’s out to do something really big. He is completely in charge of that situation. And unafraid, almost absurdly fearless. You’re never in any doubt with Bane. He is completely what he is. He’s absolutely... Out-of the box thinking. He does not take into consideration his fear.

That scene’s particularly complex in terms of what we have to follow — it was quite bold to have a blood transfusion going on amid all that chaos.
Yeah, I was actually surprised it made it into the film. It was like that moment in The Dark Knight where The Joker hides the cellphone in the man’s stomach. But it is important to the story. Bane is taking his enemies’ strength and using it against them, namely the CIA’s forensic capabilities. He knows they will check the wreckage and they find the body and they will think it’s him [Dr Pavel]. I always say, if you’ve got a good idea throw it in there!


Tell us about the casting of Aidan Gillen. Are you and Chris fans of The Wire? He’s great in that as Mayor Carcetti and I wondered if that led you to him...
I am a huge, huge fan of The Wire and I got Chris into it from the second season. I started watching that show from the first season. David Simon is extremely talented, and there’s so many good actors in it.

The last time we spoke, you promised that Anne Hathaway would blow us away as Selina Kyle. You were right.
Yeah, she is fantastic. I mean, everyone in this movie’s fantastic, especially Christian — what he’s done with the character of Bruce Wayne over the course of the three films... But I’m glad you agree on Anne.

The scene that really grabs you is the one where she goes in a beat from kicking guys’ asses to playing the screaming victim on the floor...
Yeah, you get these things on paper… It’s very easy for a writer to write that, to see the change on paper, but for an actor to actually do it, I think it’s extraordinary. Mesmerising. And Anne is such a decent, caring, loving, well-adjusted person, too. (laughs)


We have to ask about the Robin gag at the end. We’d always wondered how possible it would be to make that character work in this version of the Batman universe, and this has to have been the only way.
It is a little hard to imagine Robin working in that universe, so the idea had to be limited to that gag at the end. But Joe’s character is very important to the story. In any movie you need a character looking at proceedings the way you see them, and Joe’s character is that character for this film. One of my favourite scenes is when John tells Bruce how he knew he was Batman. It’s like that scene in The Prestige where the little kid sees through Christian’s trick. Little kids, they don’t have any illusions, they just see the truth of the situation. I feel there’s a kind of spiritual connection between the two movies there.




There are of course many other Batman characters that it would have been hard to imagine in these movies...
Yeah, like Clayface or, indeed, The Penguin. Part of what’s compelling about Chris’s take is the naturalism of it and I think that’s one of the things I loved about the Frank Miller comic books was that they were sort of urban, gritty vigilante stories first and formost. So everything had to stick within that universe. It’s hard to imagine [in these movies] any of the rogue’s gallery characters who have sort of a more supernatural or science-fiction bent to them. And I think that’s one of the aspects of Batman which are fascinating: in 70 years, the character has been sort of fully laundered. Because of writers and artists having every month coming up with a different story to tell with this character, there are often different genre aspects to it. You have your science-fictions, you’ve had fantasy elements along the way, horror, camp comedy... I mean there are so many different versions.



Are you curious about the plans for the Justice League movie, and seeing Batman in that very different context?
I’m incredibly excited. I was a big Batman fan when I was a kid. In fact he was the only comic-book character I really liked. I went through a brief spell where I was reading Captain Britain, because I was an English kid living in the States, and Wolverine for 30 seconds, Spider-Man too, but really Batman was the one. And I love that there are different versions of the character. I love that in the context of The Justice League, he’s kind of the black sheep of that family.

Speaking of supergroups, did you see Avengers?
I did. To me Joss Whedon is a god, I’m just a huge fan of his work, I love his work on TV. And I thought The Avengers was just an incredible achievement.

 

[The Joker]

I think we should give Chris a tip of the hat for being cool about Catwoman in the movie. She fit so well that I was surprised to hear it took Jonathan's coercion to get her in; the last time that happened in this genre, it was pretty messy.

You mean Venom in SM-3?

 

[Tacit Ronin]

A Nolan calling Joss Whedon a God. Heh.

 

[BatLobster]

Maybe we can finally reach a widespread peace among fanboys

 

[JackWhite]

A Nolan calling Joss Whedon a God. Heh.

Glad he kept it classy, and seemingly genuine.

 

[JackWhite]

Maybe we can finally reach a widespread peace among fanboys

That would be the day.

 

[shauner111]

There are of course many other Batman characters that it would have been hard to imagine in these movies...
Yeah, like Clayface or, indeed, The Penguin. Part of what’s compelling about Chris’s take is the naturalism of it and I think that’s one of the things I loved about the Frank Miller comic books was that they were sort of urban, gritty vigilante stories first and formost. So everything had to stick within that universe. It’s hard to imagine [in these movies] any of the rogue’s gallery characters who have sort of a more supernatural or science-fiction bent to them. And I think that’s one of the aspects of Batman which are fascinating: in 70 years, the character has been sort of fully laundered. Because of writers and artists having every month coming up with a different story to tell with this character, there are often different genre aspects to it. You have your science-fictions, you’ve had fantasy elements along the way, horror, camp comedy... I mean there are so many different versions.

I think what he says about Penguin is wrong to some extent. I mean, if you make him a middle-aged, British, classy crimelord. Somebody who is shorter than a lot of people, a bit of a weight issue but not too much. Ruthless but with a sympathetic childhood. He could be realistic.

But maybe the Nolans always had the really short, plump, beak of a nose Penguin in their minds and cant think of a way to make that serious or natural. Add to the fact that his name is incredibly comic booky "Oswald Cobblepot: The Penguin". I sort of get it i guess. It's like having the cliche mad Professor with the last name "Strange". Maybe you can make them realistic but perhaps they can't think of ways to make them threatening or really serious. (which is not my opinion btw, cuz Strange can be incredibly disturbing IMO)

But i just thought that was interesting. I guess Penguin was never on their radar, ever. Same with Clayface or Mr. Freeze, etc. Even if they did a sequel with JGL we probably wouldnt get that character, which i thought would be a possibility. Best to leave Oswald for the reboot.

 

[Brother Jack]

Maybe we can finally reach a widespread peace among fanboys

Don't count on it.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I think what he says about Penguin is wrong to some extent. I mean, if you make him a middle-aged, British, classy crimelord. Somebody who is shorter than a lot of people, a bit of a weight issue but not too much. Ruthless but with a sympathetic childhood. He could be realistic.

But maybe the Nolans always had the really short, plump, beak of a nose Penguin in their minds and cant think of a way to make that serious or natural. Add to the fact that his name is incredibly comic booky "Oswald Cobblepot: The Penguin". I sort of get it i guess. It's like having the cliche mad Professor with the last name "Strange". Maybe you can make them realistic but perhaps they can't think of ways to make them threatening or really serious.

But i just thought that was interesting. I guess Penguin was never on their radar, ever. Same with Clayface or Mr. Freeze, etc. Even if they did a sequel with JGL we probably wouldnt get that character, which i thought would be a possibility. Best to leave Oswald for the reboot.

Yeah, his Penguin remark really threw me off, considering he initially had a role in TDK.

 

[BatLobster]

I don't think those Penguin in TDK rumors were ever substantiated. Nolan denied them even back then.

I agree, The Penguin would be fairly easy to adapt to that world. I think the Nolans simply don't like him as a character and are trying to be diplomatic about it

 

[The Eradicator]

Penguin could have been totally doable as a supporting character in the Nolan universe. I remember, way back in the days of BB, rumors of Penguin showing up in the sequel and being played by Bob Hoskins. Rumor was that the Penguin would be the nickname of a mob character who would fill in the void left by Carmine Falcone's absence.

And Robin was totally doable as well - the John Blake character should have been Richard Grayson. Done. Simple.

If I were to cast Penguin in a Batman movie though, I'd go with Joe Pesci.

 

[Victarion]

You mean Venom in SM-3?

I do; I didn't want to name him outright for fear of touching off an e-riot.

 

[shauner111]

Yeah i dont think he had a role in TDK. They were just rumors, just like the "Philip Seymour Hoffman to play Penguin in Batman 3" rumors.

I think ur right BatLobster, it seems like they just dont like the character that much. Like i said it could be that they cant get the image out of their heads of a small, chubby, big nose, Penguin man barking orders to people as a crimelord. Either that or they're thinking of Danny Devito a little too much haha. Same with Robin probably.

Pesci as Penguin? Lmao id be laughing too much. Love that guy. It would be hilarious. Maybe if he was around the age he was at during Goodfellas/Casino, they could have done it violent and funny at the same time. But nah. Even though it's predictable, Philip Seymour Hoffman would nail it at this stage in his life. AND he's down for it too.

 

[The Joker]

The Penguin would be one of the easiest villains to adapt in Nolan's Batman world. A short fat guy in a tux, with an umbrella that conceals a machine gun.

 

[The Batman]

I wish the Nolans would simply say they like some villains and dislike others, rather than make off the mark commentaries on the Batman rogues they didn't want to use.

 

[BatmanBeyond]

I wish the Nolans would simply say they like some villains and dislike others, rather than make off the mark commentaries on the Batman rogues they didn't want to use.

I don't think that would stop some fans misinterpreting what they say though.

 

[The Batman]

"Oh, that's not what Nolan meant when he said that".

Yeah...sure.

 

[The Joker]

I wish the Nolans would simply say they like some villains and dislike others, rather than make off the mark commentaries on the Batman rogues they didn't want to use.

You mean like how Riddler would be a Joker knock off?

 

[kvz5]

You mean like how Riddler would be a Joker knock off?

Oh... the chaos that comment brought... Good times.

 

[The Batman]

You mean like how Riddler would be a Joker knock off?

No, no, Joker, you see, that's not what Chris Nolan meant when he called Riddler and the most of the other Bat Rogues "Watered down Jokers". t:

And I've apparently misinterpreted J Nolan putting Penguin and Clayface in the same category as "Sci Fi supernatural villains", even though the only thing close to sci-fi/supernatural about Penguin is his nose, which isnt sci fi OR supernatural, but even then, his nose could easily be altered for a "realistic" take, cause after all, if they can make a luchadore lookalike who pumps himself up with supersteroids to become a 7 foot monster "believable", Penguin shouldn't be a problem, at least in theory.

IMO, it would just be easier to say that they don't care for or know much about most of the Bat rogues gallery...it would also pretty much be the truth. But let me stop ranting before the nolan brigade comes in.

 

[Kane52630]

Well at least Chris Nolan did admit he isn't well verse in Batman's history. He even admit he was fond of either Bane or Catwoman until Goyer gave him some insight.

 

[The Batman]

Well at least Chris Nolan did admit he isn't well verse in Batman's history. He even admit he was fond of either Bane or Catwoman until Goyer gave him some insight.

And that, in essence is the problem....you admittedly aren't well versed in this stuff, so why go around calling half the rogues gallery Joker ripoffs?

It's pretty much the only time Nolan has said something that made me roll my eyes.